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Pyramid head is too strong

Alpha8512_Xbox
Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34
edited June 2020 in General Discussions

Survivors can't safely vault or use pallets, making it frustrating to get away. He can bait his attack if he taps his power making it a guessing game if you're trying to 360 or something similar (*EDIT: This is ONLY in open spaces). If someone is going for a yolo save, he can hit both of the survivors with the ranged attack if timed correctly (I know this is a survivors fault for doing this but a tip nonetheless). Also if Pyramid head does tunnel someone off hook, you can't body block if he uses his power. I personally think you should use his power for a certain amount of time before he can use his ranged attack, making pallets and vaults not a guaranteed hit everytime. *EDIT: OhTofu made a video that relates to some of the points made here and in the comments. ALSO Cages are terribly OVERRATED. There are only certain situations where you'd cage. DON'T WASTE TIME TRYING TO TORMENT.

Post edited by Alpha8512_Xbox on
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Comments

  • CosmicParagon
    CosmicParagon Member Posts: 1,070

    His power is literally Doc's Shock Therapy but with damage. Look behind you when running and juke when he charges it.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    I forgot to mention this, but this is what I meant by not being able to safely vault or use pallets

  • Atrushan88
    Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,092
    edited June 2020

    If they're locked in place it can't be that hard to miss. I'm waiting on the bundle before I buy him, but his ability to save time from hooks and remove all hook based resets is strong enough on it's own. As for the slowing himself down, oh, he loses .2 movement speed for one or two seconds, that's such a HUGE loss. Be real. Just being chased by him is hard enough due to the POTENTIAL of vaulting windows/throwing pallets being a bad idea. He doesn't even HAVE to use his power and you have to guess whether you can or can't do something.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34
    edited June 2020

    You can use his power while a survivor is running to a pallet/vault, they either have to run away or take the hit. If they run away, the distance between the survivor and killer is increased not decreased, making a guaranteed hit even if the survivors make no mistakes.

    Post edited by Alpha8512_Xbox on
  • ThisGuuy83
    ThisGuuy83 Member Posts: 1,303

    Its not a guaranteed hit, trust me. He can't just do it instantly. There's a delay, and a clear telegraph of when he's doing it. He also turns much slower and can't follow the surv as fast as they can turn. I've missed numerous times when I SHOULD'VE connected also. Either play as him, or play with some friends and practice dodging it. You will learn it's a lot harder then you think and needs a slight buff.

  • immortalls96
    immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    Actually you should do a little research, the firing speed and fire delay make it surprisingly strict to shoot animation locked players..if you dont pre fire it they can at least dead hard away..and missing slows you hard, initiating his power slows him to about 96 percent for a second,/ removes his ability to strafe and slows his turning , all while at 110 speed..a tad much for an ability that highlights where it fires and is that easily dodgable, the cages arnt consistent and not enough to carry him

  • Atrushan88
    Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,092
    edited June 2020

    He's only 110 while using his power, the RECHARGE from what I read is what slows him to 96%. I don't know how long it takes for him to be back at 115% but it's probably not a very long time. The website is a little weird though because it doesn't use the same terminology anywhere else when talking about his potential move speeds, making it hard to decipher.

    As for the pre-firing, all you have to do is charge it while they're coming to a pallet, now it's a guessing game whether they should drop it or not. If they don't drop it, you don't fire, and you likely get a hit. If they do drop it, you do fire, and you get a hit. This is from my experience anyways. The only time it hasn't worked out in this situation is when they fired when I wasn't locked in an animation.


    As for his cage not being consistent, how is it not consistent? The only inconsistency I've seen is that it ports them to random places, which shouldn't be a concern for the killer.

  • immortalls96
    immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    Actually the initial sword plant does the slow I mentioned and the miss animation is at least 3 seconds..quite a big one , and it's a simple matter to bait him to fire or fake running from the pallet with reverse pallet vaccum, and when I say inconsistant I mean torment is by no means garunteed , so then what? Half his power isnt in play at that point..I've been on both sides of this killer constantly since his release..its harder than it looks

  • Atrushan88
    Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,092
    edited June 2020

    Drop it at the pallet, they can't loop the pallet or they're tormented. He's basically Freddy at that point with only A THIRD of his power. If they do loop the pallet, you get them with your cage, if they don't, you get them down regardless if they're injured, if not, you take half their health.

    As for the initial sword plant, that's 1 second. Not a big deal to travel less than a Survivor speed for 1 second. You're still faster than a survivor at every other point.

  • Ascended4Head
    Ascended4Head Member Posts: 62

    He has the strongest "projectile attack" in the game. It can go through anything and he can chain it with his regular attack extremely quickly. There is also very little time to react to his projectile and it ha a wide radius. Compare this to somebody like huntress. She has an audio queue when she is fully wound up, she is very weak at some loops but very strong in the open or around hooks, and her speed is slowed when she winds up. She is very balanced as a range killer.

    So you think Pyramid heads ranged power is too weak? LOL

  • immortalls96
    immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    That has a much bigger result than you think, especially with what I said afterwards to compound it..and getting tormented is in no way as strong as a freddy snare in chase..that's silly..and being tormented doesnt do squat unless your downed...see your not adding it all together..you just see what can happen but dont think about what will happen

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,801

    Sis has been out for 5 days give it time to learn to counter him.

  • Ascended4Head
    Ascended4Head Member Posts: 62

    With huntress you have and indication of when she is going to throw a hatchet at you. You don't have the same indication when it comes to pyramid head. One power blends into the other one.

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    Here we go with the “guessing games,” man it took a bit longer for people to go to this rhetoric for spirit but I guess once you know what works to get nerfs you go back to that same wel

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    It's not really guessing when it come to pyramid head. Its either you keep running passed windows/pallets or you use them and get hit. Also are you implying spirit is weak?

  • Thrax
    Thrax Member Posts: 974

    Like always after the bulk of sales for the dlc have happened it'll get nerfed to be more in line with the rest and a ways down the line it'll get adjusted and people will complain no matter \what they do.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    It doesn't matter how telegraphed it is or how narrow the area is. The fact that when a survivor is running towards a pallet/window all the killer has to do is slam his sword into the ground and the pallet/window is unsafe for the survivor. The only thing a survivor can do to is waste time by running around the area, which still doesn't matter as he loses no distance at all when uses his ability. This makes it only a matter of time before you get hit, which will only be roughly a couple of seconds. Other than that his ability to cage people is pretty decent where it's at. Also his map pressure is a little weak in the early game, but quickly snowballs through mid to late game.

  • immortalls96
    immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    He does lose distance so that is very false , windows may not be uber safe vs him but huntress and death slinger are even less safe because they have better control, as for pallets..supposedly vaulting pallets makes you immune to potd, assuming it's a bug but regardless it's there

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    No, when sounds work spirit is top killer or maybe second. I’m saying people claim she’s so easy to play because all you do is stand still and it’s a “coin flip.”

    Now here we go with PH being too strong because he eliminates the basic loops strategy. Adapt, or as people like to say “get good.”

  • rogueplayer00
    rogueplayer00 Member Posts: 110

    I now have 20 hours into pyramid head, level 50. I'm not prestige, because I want to practice with perk loadouts beforehand.


    I will say this: pyramid head punishes himself all the time. Thats his biggest weakness. You need to use his trail like traps, you need to bait people into them, and if you don't, survivors never get tormented, making you unable to use cages, or do final judgment. So there's that, then look at the torment mechanic itself. People can heal torment by uncaging other survivors, and the caged survivor also gets healed from torment. This means people are less inclined to use cages in the first place, because they want to guarantee the DS counter or the easy Kill at third hook. So there's a whole power, only useful to people who are good at snowballing pressure with him, which takes a hell of a lot of practice, as it should. His ranged attack, while strong, is extremely limiting. I cant strafe left or right, there's a huge tell for the attack, and his terror radius is much larger that its range, making it super easy to just stay on the cautious side as soon as you hear a heartbeat. I climbed from R17 to R9 with Phead, and the higher I grt the more swf's and red ranks i see in my lobbies, and unless I have them completely cornered at a pallet or window, like the corner in Gideon Meat Plant, or a classroom on Midwitch, its almost ALWAYS a bad idea to use the ranged attack. Sure, some perks make it useful, like Nurses Calling or Im all ears, but those are perks that only really works on very few killers, and needed a buff as is. Introducing new Maps and Killers is a way to buff and nerf perks, killers, and survivors. For example, Clown is good on Midwitch, and whispers is much less useful on Midwitch. Indoor maps that a lot of killers do bad at, pyramid head does great at. Outdoor maps, Phead struggles, unlike huntress or oni. In total, I'd say pyramid head is pretty balanced, and feels about high B to low A tier to play, if Nurse and Spirit are up in S rank, and Freddy is in A. He has a fairly high skill ceiling, with balancing all of the elements to his character and using them all effectively. His strengths lie in his ability to snowball and quickly dispatch potato survivors, but to an untrained killer, hes easy in theory, and extremely difficult in practice against high ranking lobbies. He almost requires add-ons of green or higher to reliably spam his powers, and even then, the amount of time survivors have to dodge, readjust, and break line of sight, is way more than I personally believe they need, and that's coming from someone who's played as him extensively and someone who's played against him about 20+ times. He's in a good place, and if he was overpowered, we'd see him up there with Nurse, and guess what, we don't.

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    It all comes down to breaking the formula. Survivors know that at this loop they can loop the killer exactly 3 times, drop the pallet and force the break. Pyramid head breaks that formula... not coincidentally this is the biggest reason survivors complain Doctor and Freddy are “boring,” because the shocks or snares break that formula.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    How exactly does he lose distance? Sure he is slower but can still go faster than survivors. I'm pretty sure it is a bug.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    Fair enough, I think spirit is really good, possibly needing some changes. And yeah I still can't find a counter to high rank PH.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    Demo definitely isn't the same gameplay as PH. Demo doesn't hit through pallets or windows, he just breaks any pallets dropped. Unless you're dropping pallets everytime he charges his power, then you can loop for a while. Obviously his ranged attack isn't the absolute best, but it does counter pallets/windows directly.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    Good point. I just think its frustrating not being able to start a loop with him at all if they have a brain. I'm surprised people aren't complaining about clown atm though after his buff. He's basically what you described.

  • immortalls96
    immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    But he cant turn effeciantly and has a wider hit box so hes already got less wall hugging ability , those make a difference

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34
    edited June 2020

    Ok so just try this play style for a couple of games. Start a chase. Survivor runs to pallet/window, slam sword in ground. Survivor either, A. Drops pallet/vaults or B. Runs in a random direction. If A. occurs, use ranged attack. If B. occurs pull sword out of ground and continue chase. If a survivor gets tormented don't cage unless you're up against swf with flashlights, you can mori when they are on their last hook saving time. To season run perks like Ruin, sloppy butcher, surveillance, pop goes the weasel, nurse's calling etc. Basically any perks that slow the game. Run range add ons to taste. If you want add some spice, if you find survivors baiting attacks constantly, tap the sword slam which sounds exactly like him attacking.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    Use his attack while they are vaulting or dropping a pallet

  • Venzhas
    Venzhas Member Posts: 684

    No worries, nerf is coming

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    I have been able to mind game/loop maybe 1-2 pyramid heads but they seemed new to the killer. Against a good PH you may be right there isn’t a good counter. So far my success had come from dropping a pallet early and running, just hold W and create distance. Once he hits you once use the speed boost and create more distance

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    I see your point. I guess I've yet to verse a good demo

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    This is what I've come up with also. Although it relies on how strong the pallet position is.

  • AChaoticKiller
    AChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    I have literally only gone against one demo who knew what he was doing and it was a week after this youtuber posted a demo shred guide. I have also tried to get better at him and it really is just knowing when you can use shred or not. One thing i have got down tho is shack and any window vault when im in range, a lack of patience is what i was missing along with my shreds of course when i first played him up till i watched that guide.

  • rogueplayer00
    rogueplayer00 Member Posts: 110

    So I've messed with that strategy, but there's a weakness and slowness to it. The issue is that if you don't cage, you don't snowball. Chases with pyramid head are too long if the survivor knows how to properly dodge and play around the ranged attack. If you're up against a good survivor, you'll need to chase for around a minute or two, and end on a ranged hit or an M1 if you're lucky. He's fast, and thats one of his strengths. So if you do that, unfortunately, and i say this from experience, 2ks are what you're in for. Sometimes 3, with a hatch escape.. Now if you chase, torment, hook, cage, then mori, thats the sweet spot. Not to mention the already embedded reliance on endgame slugging. That's the most optimal time management for kills. And sadly, it requires the survivors to get tormented not only once, but twice, and that's rare against good survivors. Perks are one thing. Any killer can run good perks and play well. But from a core game play and strategy aspect, pyramid head is not easy to master, i haven't mastered him or even really are an expert yet and ive been playing non stop since he dropped. I still miss ranged attacks, I still need add ons for confidence in game choices. I still misjudge distances and miss hits. I still punish myself constantly for deciding not to cage or caging alike. His core element is chase and loop control, hes really the first if his kind that can do that in a proficient manner. But thats why he's so hard to use. If there was no downtime between range hit and registration of motive, if there was no tell for the attack, and if there was no cooldown and punishment for hit or miss alike, not to mention the speed boost survivors still get from being hit by POTD. My 3 second stun plus your speed boost, means you CAN AND WILL get away, and if i devote to that chase for that second hit, there goes 1, 2, maybe even 3 gens. You have to remember that its a 1v4 game, not a 1v1 game. Sure. It sucks to be the one to die first, in a scummy way or you could just barely not dodge that ranged hit. But what sucks more? Getting hit by POTD because you yourself made a mistake, or getting sniped 30m by a huntress you can't even see? There's so much more pressing and "overpowered" methods inthe game that need addressing. I stand by my opinion, even with Survelaince and Ruin, with Nurses Calling and BBQ, even with his pink add-ons. He's a low A at best. And I can speak from experience. I recommend you try to actually play him. Get him to 50, not by using BP you get by using survs or killers. Level him 1-50 game by game using only bp you get from those matches. And tell me how easy of a time you have with the "overpowered" character. I'm not trying to be rude or toxic, im just trying to get my point across. If you have the time, consider playing the killer thoroughly before you decide he's OP. Its a much different experience behind the Machete.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    So basically play him like a range-limited Huntress - gotcha!

  • Ashwitherton
    Ashwitherton Member Posts: 83
    edited June 2020

    Yes but that's a great thing because the formula sucks it always has you think we like to take sht from your loops fck no it good that he exists because all the incredibly strong loops can now be nerf to a balanced state plus there have been to many times where the killer has been looped for 5 mins straight and pyramid head is here to fix that problem plus the t walls meat tree killers shack come on man they all had to be brought down to size eventually

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    I have played roughly 30 matches as pyramid head and around 40 matches versing him (A majority being red ranked games). From my experience as both, trying to torment a survivor wastes time. I'm often getting 3k or 4k games, although there have been swf gen rushers so some 2k games. Other than that, he struggles in map pressure on big maps like almost every killer. It is frustrating versing him atm as all PH either camp/tunnel or commit to chase's as mentioned previously.

  • rogueplayer00
    rogueplayer00 Member Posts: 110

    So there you go. Thays exactly what I'm getting at. Once we figure out how to go against him effectively, and thise high rank survivors learn the counters, his power will fade, drastically. And since you've played with and against him, you know he's harder to play as than it seems. Dedicated servers and registration also don't help at all with ranged killers either. You're understood. Friend. Thanks for being civil, I enjoy discussing things without all the trash talking. Its a welcome change for once lol.

  • Alpha8512_Xbox
    Alpha8512_Xbox Member Posts: 34

    So a balanced state for loops is not being able to use them at all?? If you're getting looped for 5 minutes, you definitely have a problem in terms of your play style.

  • Atrushan88
    Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,092

    If you drop it at a pallet and they LEAVE the pallet, it acts the exact same as a Freddy snare. You force them to leave the pallet. It's not silly to compare the two when they have the same result. The only time it doesn't have the same result is if people don't care about being tormented, but giving the killer that much of an advantage(no exhaustion reset, no BT, no DS, etc) is pretty darn bad, and you were complaining about people avoiding the torment, I just gave you an EASY way to get people tormented, or force them to be downed easily. There's no situation in which there's no advantage for PH in that situation, dunno why you moved the goal post.

  • immortalls96
    immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    I didn't move anything , but getting tormented isnt scary unless you make it..if your avoiding it to the point of killing yourself your just playing too cautious and giving the killer a free hand..I can go entire games without torment and even when I do I usually keep the chase going plenty , the killer is 1v4..hes supposed to be way more than any one player can handle alone..heck he still needs tweaks to his line..its too slow for all its drawbacks..but yes the cages deny ds..oh well..learn from it..if ds is what makes you win them it just shows how bloated the perk really is..because hard tunneling doesnt win high level games

  • NuclearBurrito
    NuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    PH head slows down when laying trails, meaning he loses distance if you leave the loop compared to if he didn't lay anything.

    Freddy doesn't have this weakness since he moves at full speed while placing traps.