Ive did math and im disgusted by the results
So, ive decided to do some math. Something very simple, find the time required for the killer to get 1 hit, depending on how close you will get, before survivor starts running in a straigth line.
I will talk about 18m, its a reasonable distance, for a m1 killer.
So if they are just running it will take you 30 seconds to hit them once.
If they had sprint burst it will take you 40 seconds .
If they happen to palletstun and, but they dont have sprint burst it will take you 40,5 seconds.
If they have sprintburst and they will happen to palletstun and it will take you 50,5 seconds.
What about the second hit? Let's say that survivor will get 12m adventage after you hit them.
Then it will take you 20 second to down them.
So no, let's say you were pretty lucky and found the first survivor in 10 seconds and downed them near the hook, so it took you only 5 seconds to hook them.
Now it took you "only" 75,5 seconds to down baby meg, who was running in a straigth line.
Let's summarise. 3 generators are 3/4 done, while you downed 1 survivor.
Let's say 2 kills and 2 escapees is a balanced match.
It means that you need at least 6 downs, so it will take you 453 seconds.
If you are swapping between 2 survivors and hooked person is rescued and healed immadiately survivors can finish 4,5 gens.
After that, survivors will have enough time to finish the last gen and open the exit gate before you can get 3rd kill.
What does that mean?
It's simple, this game is balanced... if you are a tunneling #########.
#IThinkWeDidAPrettyGoodJobSoFar
Comments
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git gud
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But it doesn't work like that? It doesn't take 75 seconds to down a baby meg running in a straight line at all.
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This is because you can't run in a straight line for 75 seconds. You'll hit a wall.
That's why Survivors loop. Since a circle has a similar effect as a straight line would.
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Btw are we assuming you break the pallet in a pallet stun scenario?
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M1 killers move at 4,6 m/s. Survivors run at 4 m/s. Sprint Burst makes survivors move at 6 m/s for 3 seconds. Now you do the math, assuming an initial distance of 18 m.
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This is a flawed concept, based on a strict, mathematical observation which doesn't portray the reality of the game. There are way too many variables such as distance between gens; survivors together or apart; skillset; map setup; perks; add-ons; how survivors work together (or not); luck; game rhythm; mistakes etc. This seems to work on every game being the same, and as is evidenced by the plethora of different results and scores out there results vary too much.
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Yes, without perks.
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Yes... unless they start running when they hear your 32m terror radius
With a 4.0m Survior
And a 4.6m killer
Your only gaining .6m per second right ?
So 53 seconds to catch survivors that run immediately for 1 hit.
So its .6m X distance started = time to gain.
Don't forget about bloodlust at 15seconds tho adding .2 each at 15,30,45
Dbd math is pretty fun. At base
Survivors obj time is 420seconds from spawn to gate open or 105 each.
For a 12 hook game you need to find-chase-hit-down-hook in 35 seconds 12 perfect times to win.
So its definitely built for killers to loose matches almost every time. If they changed the emblems to be more rewarding and endgame screen to be less disappointed
And bp to be = to each player i killed or more id be more convinced its 2k 2e
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What isn't included in this equation is that no one merely runs in a straight line, no bloodlust (which kicks in after 15s), lunging (which covers a few meters) and power usage.
Who cares if it takes you 30 seconds to cover 18m if they step in a bear trap, or you fling a hatchet at them, or you slow them with a bottle of gas, or teleport to where they're going, or sprint at double speed with a chainsaw etc. Theres a reason that the powers exist
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Let's just give every killer turbo-warping standard, like F13 or Last Year, so instead of having chases you just have killers jumping out of nowhere and killing you spontaneously.
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Indeed, this is a simplified model, but it's also for M1 killers, so no hatchets or chainsaws or anything like that. I created a more complex model (wrote the code for it and everything) that does take into account Bloodlust, but not the lunge. However, the model still presumes survivors run in a straight line. I could create a far more complex model with enough time and some assistance, even taking into account map design.
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Reducing this game to simple math is stupid.
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Also an injured Survivor gets exactly 7.9 meters of distance which takes 13.1 seconds to cover.
There is no reason to just assume the distance, we know how much the boost is.
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Let's say that all 4 survivors spawned in different places next to a gen and everybody is perfect, so there are no mistakes and no one uses perks and killer doesent use his power.
Then it is clear it doesen't show reality, but it shows that it is strongly favored for the survivors, on the equal skill lvl.
Bloodlust works in around 10m and lunging will cover only few meters. You wont get more than 10 seconds from this.
When it comes to powers all of them have strong counters (except nurse and spirit) and so they are the strongest killers.
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Thanks for this info, its 7 seconds of difference.
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More importantly though is the initial premise, which is something even I payed a lot of attention to after making my own thread on this. But basically, Survivors don't generally start running until you are very VERY close, like less than 8 meters close.
And when they do start running super early you often just won't find them, and if you do it's because you were able to cut them off.
Closing this distance even further is the power of stealth Killers. And most Killers in general with the notable exception of Leatherface amd the doctor have some way to close the gap, either through mobility, stealth or range
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Obj time 420seconds / unpressured survivors = escape
(Hookstates is 120 seconds > 3 hooks) ×4 OR (bleedout 240 seconds ) ×4 = death
Tbh
if you want to mitigate pressure equations the only way Is to reduce survivors by tunnling.
And if Survior mistakes and map loop don't give you enough room to end chases before 35 at base you shouldnt play a 12 hook juggle game you should camp because a secured hookstate pass or a save trade is always going to be 60seconds or less while a chase is a 35 second bet you can't always make.
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I would love to see the results of that. It would be interesting as hell to see how the simple mathematics compares to how it is in actuality.
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Basically, Killers catch Survivors because maps are too small to enable this and Survivors don't run as soon as you would expect
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Well, first I would need some assistance, because I'm not doing all that ######### by myself. If anyone's interested and knows Java (that's the language I learned in college, though I also programmed a bit in C++ for a class that required it), leave a comment on my profile.
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On the new map, this is a viable strat, and the ONLY strat available.
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This idea only works if we assume the map their playing on has infinite empty space and the killer has no power that can POSSIBLY help in the chase. The most ideal map to do this on would either be Haddonfield since you can use the sidewalks or Rotten field. Both of these maps would allow you to have roughly 100 meters in a straight line. Assuming the killer is pressed against a wall with the survivor 18 meters away from said wall when they start running... Theyre obviously going to hit the opposite wall WAY before 70 seconds have passed.
If you want to make a statement on balance... its best to work with whats possible.
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As you say, it's a exceptionally unusual situation should that happen, and there's most likely code to prevent that.
My argument against the idea it shows the game is strongly favoured to survivor is that this calculus is based solely for one specific scenario. This can't then be used for other variations, rendering this math only useful for one highly improbable scenario.
Basically, I personally don't have every single fact to determine this game is biased to one side, so I won't be in a position to state that, especially as everyone has different views. But what I can say is that this equation is only illustrative of a single possibility, and thus is not in a position to make a definite claim that this is survivor sided. It doesn't have nearly enough wiggle room.
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Some maps actually used to enable this and the new map has this infinite.
And thats true, running may wary and thats why i did the whole sheet from 1 to 32 meters. For 8m, the first hit is in 23,3 with sprint burst or 34 seconds if there was a palletstun.
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And if you don't assume a pallet break after the stun?
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Oh man, there are things like this. They are called long loops, or sometimes there are even infinites that allow you to do this on 10m and there are even infinites, like the one on the new map.
Nope, there is no code that prevents survivors from spawning in 4 different locations or if there is its as effective as the code that prevents totems from spawning next to the generators.
Also, if you want to include everything, good luck with that because all i can do are many separate threats for maps, perks etc. (and they are mostly survivor favored)... unless we are talking about spirit/nurse, then its in killer favor.
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Oh thanks because of this question ive noticed a small error in my sheet, where for some reason ive given survivor 1m/s speed when killer was stunned and because of that, result is if you had enduring and spirit fury.
Without them it will be 70,5 seconds with both sprint burst and pallet stun.
Without sprint burst 60,7 seconds...
Now im even more disgusted...
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Loops aside, this is assuming the killer in play has no power whatsoever to end a chase faster. Somehow the right mouse button on Wraith just broke and all he can do now is hold W and hit M1 when he gets close. Seeing as how thats not the case... these numbers dont mean much.
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And every single killer has a strong counter to his power.
Not to mention that wraith power is truly useful only for the first hit after which it still can take you easily too much time for the chase.
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Math does not really work for DBD.
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Math works for everything, you just need a better model.
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This is why you don't chase survivors by following them, you chase them toward where either you want them to go or where you think they're headed.
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My life is complex enough without having time to dedicate towards that! :D. This is a very tricky game where people have very different experiences and come up to conclusions based on those. In effect, everyone's opinion matters! And if the game feels unbalanced regardless of size, then perhaps this game doesn't need equations or adjustments - it would need to change the concept entirely, and that is a massive job! Maybe the gen / exit gate objective is no longer fit for purpose. Maybe The Entity has a lot of planning ahead to change the trials completely!
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looping hasnt the same effect as a straight line. If you take a car loop for example, the hitbox of the survivor is smaller so you can cut edges closer then the killer. In some loops against 110% killer it actually results in being faster then them.
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It would be good because outside of a chase game doesent require much skill from survivors and because of this its just not possible to balance this game properly.
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Were you studying physics because it sounds like you did.
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This is more something you show to killers that following a survivor in a straight line is a bad idea
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Yes, I am, though all my teachers consider me a scientist at this point.
EDIT: I'm not saying this to brag, it's that I've mentioned in another comment I'm a scientist, so I'm pre-emptively explaining that.
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Perhaps start with small but significant additions such as an extra objective, such as maybe solve a puzzle (like the Silent Hillmap Clock Tower), or even something else needs to be done to power the gates! Likewise, the Killer could have some objectives other than seek and destroy. It's just off the top of my head and probably a crap-shot, but it may be a start of something much more.
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I never tunnel on a killer. I usually get a 4k when I play killer. Your seconds don't equate to actual game play. Your disgusted by a scenario you made up in your head. In essence, you are disgusted with yourself. Good job. 😂
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I said similar, not the same.
The similarity I was getting at is that you are trying to close the distance by taking an identical path as the Survivor, meaning you can't cut them off and must cover the distance solely with your movement speed rather than pathing advantages that pop up outside of a loop when a Survivor inevitably hits a wall.
It's effectively creating a hallway of infinite length.
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Anyways going down the list of Killers and their ability to mitigate or ignore this issue:
- Trapper - Traps intercepting a Survivor
- Wraith - Stealth and cloaked MS boost
- Hillbilly - Chainsaw dash = gap closer
- Nurse - Blinks = gap closer
- Myers - Stealth
- Hag - Teleportation via traps
- Doctor - None (his power doesn't help with gap closing, only anti-loop)
- Huntress - Ranged attack
- Leatherface - None
- Freddy - Gen Teleportaton and traps intercepting the Survivor
- Pig - Stealth
- Clown - Bottles slow Survivors
- Spirit - Phase walk = gap closer
- Legon - Frenzy = gap closer
- Plague - Ranged attack with corrupt
- Ghostface - Stealth
- Demogorgon - Teleportation and super lunge
- Oni - Dash = gap closer
- Deathslinger - Ranged attack
- Pyramid Head - None (ranged attack doesn't actually help here due to ease of dodging it).
So all but 3 Killers have the means of mitigating this issue. Of those 3, 1 of them has a ton of stall and tracking while the other has his own time saving functions and great anti-loop.
Leatherface sucks.
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As i said, its for m1 killer, so its for any killer that doesent have a direct help in his chase with his power.
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What if the killer has mori ?
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You forgot to factor in that you don't need to three hook someone to kill them. Sometimes they suicide, get camped, are the last one in the trial or no one saves
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I’m disgusted that people still use the term “infinite” in the current state of DBD.
People will say any loop that take up 20+ seconds is an infinite.
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Well, they are not old infinites but still... if there is a loop that can take 50+ seconds you can safely call it infinite imo, simply because result is the same, you loose the match because of chasing there.
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I'll assume you and OP did the maths correctly rather than embarrassing myself. I still only really see a balance issue if the maps looked more like race tracks
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Thats why survivors usually run towards the loop and then loop. As it turns out you dont really need to utilise windows to buy your team a lot of time.
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Those 50+ second loops can be reduced by breaking a pallet or wall. The old “infinites” have been removed like Haddonfield’s window/BL loops.
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