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If not looping, then what?
I don't understand what people want as an alternative when concerned about looping. So rather than have another discussion on the pros or cons of looping, what exactly would you guys want? Right now its a tag-simulator, but if you took out looping, games would be super long hide-and-seek simulators since survivors would play extremely slow in an effort to not be spotted at all. I wouldn't enjoy this in either role.
So what defenses should survivors have if not looping? Killers are faster, maps don't have enough coverage for hiding during a chase and the "stealthy" perks don't feel very effective.
I'm just brainstorming here:
Safety lockers but the survivor can't get pulled out of, but HAVE to stay in for a period of time.
Stronger dark mist that hides survivors specifically (not the killer too).
More things like pallets to stun killers during a chase. (Maybe give the killer the ability to sabotage these before use)
An activated perk that turns off your bloodtrail/tracks for a period of time (with exhaustion).
Smoke bombs that obstruct the view of the survivor so they can change directions during a chase.
Comments
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Honestly, looping is part of the game whether we like it or not. It is never really going to change and as long as infinites are gone, I am fine with that. They can be counter played and abused by Killers and Survivors.
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Here you go:
https://youtu.be/xJCuAFssn7s11 -
@Tsulan said:
Here you go:https://youtu.be/xJCuAFssn7sHalf of those aren't effective against a Killer with a brain
Edit: Almost most.
You gotta be smarter than that and also be ontop of your looping game
Edit edit: bro
is this a meme
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I don't want looping to go away entirely. Rather I want it to be nerfed so it isn't as strong as it is now. As for other ways to play, a fair mix of stealth and using the map to keep ahead in a chase, like pallets, windows, and looping to an extent is what I'd like to see. I can see your point in stealth being a bit weak though.
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@Tsulan IMO, given the goal of the game (to emulate slasher movies) I don't believe juking is any better of a solution. It still creates the weird "ha ha can't catch me, killer" and takes the power away from the killer that looping does. The killer should be powerful, the survivors should feel weak and sneaky.
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@Tsulan said:
Here you go:https://youtu.be/xJCuAFssn7sNone of them is safe though.
Vault and pallet jukes don't work against experienced killers. Also, as long as there is a safe way, why would survivors take a risk to do these things?
The best alternative way is being a runner. There are spots to lose the killer and force him to make a guess. It breaks LoS and I generally use this method.
Looping is not going anywhere. It is a part of the game and whether we like it or not, we should try to adapt it.
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But what have i done now?
but... but...
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@Brady said:
@Tsulan said:
Here you go:https://youtu.be/xJCuAFssn7sHalf of those aren't effective against a Killer with a brain
Edit: Almost most.
You gotta be smarter than that and also be ontop of your looping game
Edit edit: bro
is this a meme
This is the first video i found on juking. It´s a good start for new players. Since old players already know how to run in circles.
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@MisterCremaster said:
@Tsulan IMO, given the goal of the game (to emulate slasher movies) I don't believe juking is any better of a solution. It still creates the weird "ha ha can't catch me, killer" and takes the power away from the killer that looping does. The killer should be powerful, the survivors should feel weak and sneaky.But usually the slasher end with a mori the moment the killer downs the survivor.
We could introduce this here... would make hell of a short game.0 -
My preferred way of dealing with a chase would be to break line of site and find a hiding spot or way to double back. That sometimes works for me, depending on the map. Maybe the change to bloodlust will make this more effective, but it just seems like in most maps there aren't enough unique ways of doing this, so its far more effective to try stun/loop the killer. I'd really like to see more options to help the survivor disappear.
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@WhateverIGuess said:
@Tsulan said:
Here you go:https://youtu.be/xJCuAFssn7sDo you really think that these jukes work against good killers? OMEGALUL.
The only one worth mentioning might be the QnQ locker juke, but still, good killers will know.
I think Q&Q, Lithe, Dance with me and Lightweight make a good combo.
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@Tsulan Urban, Iron Will and Calm Spirit also make a fairly good combo if you're trying to break line of sight.
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Lets ignore juking for the moment, because I don't think it adequately diverts the issue of allowing the survivors to feel like they have the upper hand on the killer. What NEW mechanics could be added to make survivors feel weak, but sneaky, that would actually be effective?
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@MisterCremaster said:
Lets ignore juking for the moment, because I don't think it adequately diverts the issue of allowing the survivors to feel like they have the upper hand on the killer. What NEW mechanics could be added to make survivors feel weak, but sneaky, that would actually be effective?Things that take the power away from the survivor:
- Making No Mither the basekit for everyone.
- 3 survivor matches
- hardcore mode without terror radius and perks
- 2 killers
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@Tsulan said:
@MisterCremaster said:
Lets ignore juking for the moment, because I don't think it adequately diverts the issue of allowing the survivors to feel like they have the upper hand on the killer. What NEW mechanics could be added to make survivors feel weak, but sneaky, that would actually be effective?Things that take the power away from the survivor:
- Making No Mither the basekit for everyone.
- 3 survivor matches
- hardcore mode without terror radius and perks
- 2 killers
Every single one of these suggestions break the game.
Myers is the best 4th killer in the game and his power is a limited one shot. No mither easily gives Myers's ability to the other killers without any drawback with unlimited EW3.
3 survivor matches are extremely boring. I never play those both as a survivor and as a killer.
Tinkerer bug was funny but mostly broken. If the scratch marks will be removed, I am okay with this change.
I have never played a killer without perks but from my survivor experience, the game becomes incredibly unfun as a perkless survivor even if I win.
2 killers would break the game easily in several ways.
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They want you to pretend like stealth exists in this game, Ignore all of those meta aura perks like broken Q n chili, bitter murmur, etc etc. Stealth died the day they introduced BBQ. Fact.
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@Tsulan said:
Here you go:https://youtu.be/xJCuAFssn7sNice reference to a video made around friends being bad at the game or rank 20 killers. You must be new to how montages work. Good luck getting that to work against a killer with a brain.
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@Delfador said:
@Tsulan said:
@MisterCremaster said:
Lets ignore juking for the moment, because I don't think it adequately diverts the issue of allowing the survivors to feel like they have the upper hand on the killer. What NEW mechanics could be added to make survivors feel weak, but sneaky, that would actually be effective?Things that take the power away from the survivor:
- Making No Mither the basekit for everyone.
- 3 survivor matches
- hardcore mode without terror radius and perks
- 2 killers
Every single one of these suggestions break the game.
Myers is the best 4th killer in the game and his power is a limited one shot. No mither easily gives Myers's ability to the other killers without any drawback with unlimited EW3.
3 survivor matches are extremely boring. I never play those both as a survivor and as a killer.
Tinkerer bug was funny but mostly broken. If the scratch marks will be removed, I am okay with this change.
I have never played a killer without perks but from my survivor experience, the game becomes incredibly unfun as a perkless survivor even if I win.
2 killers would break the game easily in several ways.
He asked for something that would take away the power from the survivors.
Those things would do exactly that.
I love to play 3 survivor matches. It feels frightening and intense. Sadly most of the survivors like to simply disconnect. But when the killer is not camping (he usually doesn´t feels pressured to do so). Then it makes for some awesome matches.
The hardcore mode as i would love to play it: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/15899/hardcore-mode#latest1 -
@Usui said:
They want you to pretend like stealth exists in this game, Ignore all of those meta aura perks like broken Q n chili, bitter murmur, etc etc. Stealth died the day they introduced BBQ. Fact.So a perk that reduced camping is bad for stealth? I never knew that the rice farmer on the field is stealthy. I always thought the ninja in the same room as his victim was stealthy.
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@Vankruze said:
that's a legit guide too, you can juke the killer if you want to play that way but really high level killers usually don't fall for it and I believe that's where stealth is lacking. I've seen some really good killers they never get juked in the chase they always will track you down. You have to make them give up on you that's the only way.And how do you do that? You loop.
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@UsuiUsui said:They want you to pretend like stealth exists in this game, Ignore all of those meta aura perks like broken Q n chili, bitter murmur, etc etc. Stealth died the day they introduced BBQ. Fact.
Gotta agree with this. Some people tell survivors to play stealthy, which is fine, but killers got many ways to track survivors even if they play stealthy.
Survivors might have information about what's going on, but so do the killers.4 -
@Tsulan said:
@Delfador said:
@Tsulan said:
@MisterCremaster said:
Lets ignore juking for the moment, because I don't think it adequately diverts the issue of allowing the survivors to feel like they have the upper hand on the killer. What NEW mechanics could be added to make survivors feel weak, but sneaky, that would actually be effective?Things that take the power away from the survivor:
- Making No Mither the basekit for everyone.
- 3 survivor matches
- hardcore mode without terror radius and perks
- 2 killers
Every single one of these suggestions break the game.
Myers is the best 4th killer in the game and his power is a limited one shot. No mither easily gives Myers's ability to the other killers without any drawback with unlimited EW3.
3 survivor matches are extremely boring. I never play those both as a survivor and as a killer.
Tinkerer bug was funny but mostly broken. If the scratch marks will be removed, I am okay with this change.
I have never played a killer without perks but from my survivor experience, the game becomes incredibly unfun as a perkless survivor even if I win.
2 killers would break the game easily in several ways.
He asked for something that would take away the power from the survivors.
Those things would do exactly that.
I love to play 3 survivor matches. It feels frightening and intense. Sadly most of the survivors like to simply disconnect. But when the killer is not camping (he usually doesn´t feels pressured to do so). Then it makes for some awesome matches.
The hardcore mode as i would love to play it: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/15899/hardcore-mode#latestYour thread looks nice and fun. I would love to try it out. I already said that if there are no scratch marks, I am okay with no heartbeat.
I understand that these changes would make the survivors feel weak and sneaky but it doesn't look balanced or fun.
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@Delfador said:
@Tsulan said:
@Delfador said:
@Tsulan said:
@MisterCremaster said:
Lets ignore juking for the moment, because I don't think it adequately diverts the issue of allowing the survivors to feel like they have the upper hand on the killer. What NEW mechanics could be added to make survivors feel weak, but sneaky, that would actually be effective?Things that take the power away from the survivor:
- Making No Mither the basekit for everyone.
- 3 survivor matches
- hardcore mode without terror radius and perks
- 2 killers
Every single one of these suggestions break the game.
Myers is the best 4th killer in the game and his power is a limited one shot. No mither easily gives Myers's ability to the other killers without any drawback with unlimited EW3.
3 survivor matches are extremely boring. I never play those both as a survivor and as a killer.
Tinkerer bug was funny but mostly broken. If the scratch marks will be removed, I am okay with this change.
I have never played a killer without perks but from my survivor experience, the game becomes incredibly unfun as a perkless survivor even if I win.
2 killers would break the game easily in several ways.
He asked for something that would take away the power from the survivors.
Those things would do exactly that.
I love to play 3 survivor matches. It feels frightening and intense. Sadly most of the survivors like to simply disconnect. But when the killer is not camping (he usually doesn´t feels pressured to do so). Then it makes for some awesome matches.
The hardcore mode as i would love to play it: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/15899/hardcore-mode#latestYour thread looks nice and fun. I would love to try it out. I already said that if there are no scratch marks, I am okay with no heartbeat.
I understand that these changes would make the survivors feel weak and sneaky but it doesn't look balanced or fun.
Would you consider the game balanced right now? Because we are still far away of having a good balance.
But i understand that this is difficult in a assymetric game.1 -
I dont mind looping just people looping for a pallet smack they get the basement and and on the back hook0
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I think if you're REALLY quick minded, Diversion may serve this function. So far I screwed up every time when I used it, but maybe smart people can put it to good use. But I'm completely behind anything that makes the game more about stealth and less about looping. I love BBQ as a killer but I admit aura reading abilities, as well as loud and flashy audio and visual clues are much dumber than actually looking for small movements of tall grass, listening carefully to soft footsteps or breathing.
Most likely though, looping has become part of this game so much that many players would just leave. If the mechanics changed in a way that makes it much harder for killer to find you, but much easier to down you... well, that would be an entirely different game.0 -
@MisterCremaster said:
I don't understand what people want as an alternative when concerned about looping. So rather than have another discussion on the pros or cons of looping, what exactly would you guys want? Right now its a tag-simulator, but if you took out looping, games would be super long hide-and-seek simulators since survivors would play extremely slow in an effort to not be spotted at all. I wouldn't enjoy this in either role.So what defenses should survivors have if not looping? Killers are faster, maps don't have enough coverage for hiding during a chase and the "stealthy" perks don't feel very effective.
I'm just brainstorming here:
Safety lockers but the survivor can't get pulled out of, but HAVE to stay in for a period of time.
Stronger dark mist that hides survivors specifically (not the killer too).
More things like pallets to stun killers during a chase. (Maybe give the killer the ability to sabotage these before use)
An activated perk that turns off your bloodtrail/tracks for a period of time (with exhaustion).
Smoke bombs that obstruct the view of the survivor so they can change directions during a chase.
Simple I would want better mechanics to lose a killer in a chase and the options to actually play a stealth game. I know there is a possibility that a game with these mechanics could cause a match to go on without anyone being caught but until we have such a game we cannot balance around that idea. Even as a Killer I'd rather have someone "juke" and lose me then simply run circles around a pallet only to dash off to the next once that one is used up.
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@Tsulan said:
So a perk that reduced camping is bad for stealth? I never knew that the rice farmer on the field is stealthy. I always thought the ninja in the same room as his victim was stealthy.I don't think barbecue reduced camping. Killers still camp whether they are using the perk or not because they want to secure a kill. Gates are open and you get someone on the hook. Would you go for the 3 people closer to the gate, or take the one life you caught already?
Four seconds to wait for the aura to come off, so you can change directions doesn't always work especially if the killer is a Hillbilly running to you. Killers would also still camp, patrol, or search around if they didn't see the survivors' auras because he/she would assume "oh they must be around here."
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@Dragon_of_Fantasy said:
@Tsulan said:
So a perk that reduced camping is bad for stealth? I never knew that the rice farmer on the field is stealthy. I always thought the ninja in the same room as his victim was stealthy.I don't think barbecue reduced camping. Killers still camp whether they are using the perk or not because they want to secure a kill. Gates are open and you get someone on the hook. Would you go for the 3 people closer to the gate, or take the one life you caught already?
Four seconds to wait for the aura to come off, so you can change directions doesn't always work especially if the killer is a Hillbilly running to you. Killers would also still camp, patrol, or search around if they didn't see the survivors' auras because he/she would assume "oh they must be around here."
Put yourself in the position of the killer for a moment.
You have BBQ equipped, hook a survivor, do a 360 to see where survivors are aaaaand you see no one, because everyone hides behind a gen or inside your terror radius. Do you search closeby, because there are probably survivors nearby or do you run to the farthest gen without looking back?If the gates are powered, the killer has every right to camp. He has no reason to leave that hook, because there are no gens to protect, no totems to look at, just the guy on the hook and the survivors at the exit gates teabagging. If you try to hit them, they´ll just leave. So why leave?
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@Tsulan Some would go for the gens to kick them especially if they have Pop Goes The Weasel. Others would prefer to search around the area, and see if they can hit someone nearby because that would cause another survivor to stop repairing and get the hooked survivor.
A killer can still see the survivor's aura behind a gen. It's not a very clear shade, but the outline of the survivor's shape can be noticed. Because of this, killers would just run towards that gen to find that survivor or at least kick the gen.
I asked that question to point out the reason why camping still exists as barbecue didn't stop this method. Imo, the perk gave killers an easier way to find survivors faster to try to put more pressure instead of countering the camping strategy.
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Because if 4 people with suped of tools will pop 3-4 gens right away who the bucks gonna try to play fair if there not?
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Also to clarify i dont camp unless as i have asked do basement hooks count as camping if i rush to check everytime i see a hint of red scratches near it
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Camping has been heavily reduced since the release of BBQ. Now you barely see threads about it. Before Leatherface was released, we had countless threads about camping.Dragon_of_Fantasy said:@Tsulan Some would go for the gens to kick them especially if they have Pop Goes The Weasel. Others would prefer to search around the area, and see if they can hit someone nearby because that would cause another survivor to stop repairing and get the hooked survivor.
A killer can still see the survivor's aura behind a gen. It's not a very clear shade, but the outline of the survivor's shape can be noticed. Because of this, killers would just run towards that gen to find that survivor or at least kick the gen.
I asked that question to point out the reason why camping still exists as barbecue didn't stop this method. Imo, the perk gave killers an easier way to find survivors faster to try to put more pressure instead of countering the camping strategy.
Map pressure is only possible with mobile killers. If you use the non meta killers, you'll have to try to lockdown parts of the map by gen camping (3 gen strat). But people are already complaining that this is holding the game hostage...
Pop goes the weasel only works If you have an idea of where to go. Since it's cooldown doesn't leave a lot of error margin.1 -
I think camping is a bit overblown and what most killers do is patrolling. Survivors are going to try to unhook, so it only makes sense a killer will not go *that* far from the hook.
I think a perk that allows the killer to do major damage to generators or extends the duration of gate opening if they smack the control a bit while someone is hooked could encourage the killer to leave further away.0 -
MisterCremaster said:I think camping is a bit overblown and what most killers do is patrolling. Survivors are going to try to unhook, so it only makes sense a killer will not go *that* far from the hook.
I think a perk that allows the killer to do major damage to generators or extends the duration of gate opening of the smack the control a while someone is hooked could encourage the killer to leave further away.
or run ti and basement people0 -
@Tsulan I remember when Leatherface came out, but I don't think it really changed how much people camped. Basing on forum posts to judge how much camping occurs isn't that accurate because not every DBD player writes on a forum. Sadly don't know where that kind of data can be found in game unless the devs. have it.
Putting pressure is possible on non meta killers. Doesn't have to be map pressure either. Consistently chasing someone, using perks/addons, or getting rid the number of survivors in a game can put pressure on the survivors that they are running out of time to escape.
@MisterCremaster I can see how camping might be overblown as people aren't specific, or sometimes the word is just being thrown out there with no reasoning. Even so, I don't think camping was reduced significantly because killers will still camp if they think the method can give them a win or they want to see some salt.
Idk if putting more time into repairing a kicked gen or opening the gate would help. People still criticize the game even though Ruin, Remember Me, Pop Goes the Weasel, Sloppy Butcher etc. slow down the game.
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