Why are so many purple rank killers using noed?
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Im not nuking anything, the only perk i think needs looking at is OoO, everything else is fine. I said if we applied your logic to the survivor perks IT (meaning your logic) would nuke half the survivor meta. Its a double standard. And no, i dont regularly use noed. Very rare, but i will of i want and wont be anymore sorry about it thsn when I run ds, bt, unbreakable or whatever else
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Tunneling especially since pyramid head has came out its been a real problem that's why they go down within 60 seconds.
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So how do I how many bones are left when playing solo? Maps like lerys are hard to find totems and in solo you cant tell if anyone broke any or not.
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Cleansing totems does not progress the game its more of a time waster especially in solo with bad teammates when you could be doing gens but what do I know im a survivor main.
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The killers objective is to kill all the survivors focusing one wouldn't be efficient as you aren't putting hook states on any other survivor. Not only is it a dick move it isn't a good strategy at all.
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100% depends on tge situation. What youre saying is usually true but not always. Just like rushing gens with no forethought to the 3 gen or noed isnt efficient in escaping most of the time.
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I agree with you there but im talking about majority of the games.
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bigger question, why are so many purple rank survivors NOT DOING THE GODDAMN BONES
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Bring Small Game or Detectives Hunch. Or wait till all gens are powered, and run around looking for a lit one IF you realize NOED is in play.
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Well if there was no ds the game would look very different. If i have 2 people on tge ground in front of me, 1 has been hooked and one hasnt, tge smart play with no ds is to hook tge guy thats been hoiked before. Because of that even with bt survivors would be much more careful about unhooks. It would all play out very differently.
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So I have to run these low tier perks on the off chance that I run into noed? I rather run my meta build which helps my survability so no.
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That's if no ds is in play if it isn't then yes that would be an optimal play style but if it is then that playstyle isn't optimal just a dick move.
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And not doing bones while they complain about having nothing else to do? Yes.
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I think its a design issue of doing totems not having an effect by itself on the match is why most survivor ignore them.
Heck I'd think we would still be seeing complaints about NOED from purples+ even if doing totems gave We're Gonna Live Forever stacks simply because doing totems isn't intuitively advantageous by design.
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Because they need it. Have you played killer? Also matchmaking is so trash that rank 20-10 killers get paired with all 4 rank 1 survivors. Yeah man, they're going to have to run noed to keep up. That should be common sense.
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Oh boyyyy
Agree 100%
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DS punish killers for downing the same person
He's right
Can't argue with that, stop
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Then don't complain about totems if you're unwilling to make room for them. That would be like killers complaining about survivors bringing in a plethora of items, yet ignoring Franklins. Or Sloppy.
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Lets be frank we all know the actual reason. Everyone's out playing characters they don't usually play for crowns and don't likely have decked out perk builds. Most of my off brand characters have noed because most perks may as well not exist at lvl 1. What am I gonna do? Run sloppy butcher on plague or lvl 1 nurses?
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I've seen an increase in key usage as well. The key can be used before the last gen is done, and can completely flip a match from a Killer-dominated one into a barely-escapable black pip for the Killer.
Whether this is in response to NOED or what made the increase in that perk's usage I'm uncertain.
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Since you're SWF, you should have no trouble sparing a few extra minutes to do totems. It's not like you cant communicate where they are even if you're in a chase.
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@azame Youve missed the point entirely. Riv made tge point that noed punishes survivors for gen rushing.
You said "punish the survivors for doing their objective efficiently?"
Space coconut then pointed out to you that ds punishes the killers for doing their job efficiently.
Then you said ds punishes the killer for trying to hook tge same survivor within 60 secs.
I then pointed out that THAT IS the killer doing the objective efficiently.
The entire point was to draw a comparison between noed and ds. Remove both from the board and the game is a gen rushing tunneling nightmare. If kilkers tunnel, they might get hit by ds. If survivors gen rush they might get hit by noed.
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If you consistently run Noed,
You're not as good as you think.
If you consistently run DS and unbreakable,
You're not as good as you think.
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Survivors: KILLURS WHO USE NOED ARE TRASH ITS CRUTCH PERK U FAIR
Killers: We need it to counter the several free opportunities you get from decisive strike dh OoO and having 4 people ignoring everything except leaving as fast as then can with minimal interaction.
Survivors: KILLERS ARE MEAN AND JUST WANT 4K I SHOULDNT HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME THE WAY THEY WANT1!1!!1!!1
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This is a statement I can agree with
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So are you saying other crutch perks like DS and dead hard require skill?
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Yeah we have been cleansing totems always, I’m just wondering about why the increase in noed users
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And then they Unbreakable off the floor, that's a terrible counter argument.
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I think NOED is unhealthy as well and needs changes.
However,
"So punish survivors for doing their objectively effectively?"
Can literally be applied to almost all the multiple second chance survivor perks as well. They all punish the killer for doing their objective effectively. At least NOED has counter play for its bad design. The counter play to most those survivor second chance perks is playing in a way that loses you the game..and there are multiple of them.
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What does rank have to do with using a powerful perk that punishes gen rushers? I'm rank 1 and I use noed! Its meta, just as ds and bt are meta for survivors but you dont see killer players jumping on the forums asking why red ranks use ds...they're powerful perks. We already know why survivors use them. Why would you run something other than ds if you want to survive a hungry killer? Just as a killer, who rightfully should, worry about not being able to pressure 4 survivors at once, all game, and guard 5 gens at the same time..... why on earth do you expect that of a killer when swf exists?
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So ds gives you a learning opportunity? Jumping in a locker for 60 seconds is a learning experience now? Oh how bout hook bombing when the killer isnt even camping just for the bt save? Total learning experience
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Kind of like what DS does to the competent Killers? Punishes them for doing their job effectively and/or punishing Survivors' mistakes like Killers should.
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I mean I dont disagree that the gens are their objective, but so are totems. Sure totems are only secondary objectives. But they are still objectives. You could say that only doing gens is the fastest way of escaping which is the main objective. Fair enough. You know what else is a secondary objective that gets in the way of the main objective? Chasing different survivors instead of just tunneling someone to death or bringing a mori. Its a lot easier to get kills if you just remove 1 person from the game as fast as possible.
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Its not a secondary objective to chase different survivors because your primary objective is to kill them all therefore chasing different survivors helps that because you are making more survivors closer to death than just one.
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No ds punishes killers who pick up the recently hooked survivor within 60 seconds which in most cases is tunneling which isn't an optimal strategy.
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Care to give me an example cause I need specifics if we are talking about ds in most cases it punishes tunneling killers, bt does the same the counter is not to tunnel.
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DS doesn't make the survivor use any skill or learn from anything, it's just so they can get a free escape unlike oth....wait...wait, no. Survivors have many.
NOED is the most counterable thing in the game.
Kind of like DS punishes killers for doing their objective effectively?
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I'm going to copy paste my response to this from another page as I've replied to this question a lot before and it's quite a bit to type up every time.
All those "second chance" perks punish the killer for playing well and reward the survivor for playing bad. They also all force the killer to play in the least optimal way in order to not get punished by them. Against "good" survivors, playing in that least optimal way loses you the game. In other words they force you into a lose/lose scenario. Those perks are "anti-pressure" perks, in a meta where the only way you win as killer is through pressure. They also aren't situational, because as I've mentioned, even if they don't activate, you are still getting extreme value from them because the killer was forced to play in a bad way to prevent them from activating.
Against "good" survivors, you literally do not have the time to 1 hook each survivor one at a time working your way around. The numbers are simply not even remotely there.
None of these perks have legitimate counters either. You go after the unhooked guy (DS, BT), slug the unhooked (Unbreakable), go for the unhooker (unhooked guy body blocks you with BT, DS, Unbreakable). Completely leaving the hook entirely and never going back means you are going for a pass around of 1 hooking each survivors one at a time, which is as I said earlier, a losing choice as well, as you simply do not have the time to do that with how fast gens are.
You also have all the random DS's you'll get hit with as you'll have multiple active at once and can't keep track of them all. They know how long it lasts so they will just refuse to heal and continue gen rushing.
Almost all of the meta killer perks have high costs, skill requirements, downsides, ask something of you, and have counters built into their base kits without even needing a perk as survivor. Meanwhile we look at all the meta survivor perks that almost all have no costs, downsides, skill requirements etc etc or anything of those same things that the killer perks have. The survivor meta perks also almost all stack together, whereas more and more of the killer ones do not stack. Survivor perks quite simply are not held to the same standards that killer perks are.
Just like killer I've played survivor at rank 1 as well for years and it's quite clear to see how busted many of the survivor second chance perks are, especially once you're able to see it from the other perspective.
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Cause getting two hits or using your power is too hard? That's my guess and don't really care for the survivor equivalent perks such as ds or exhaustion perks. There's no strategy is just press button and appear to be good.
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In many ways, NOED is the counter for the teams that do nothing but bang out generators at optimum efficiency irregardless of how good the Killer is doing. You get matches like that a LOT more frequently starting in purple ranks due to it being red rank adjacent. Your only hope in those matches is NOED because of their refusal to do anything beyond being mindless generator automatons because otherwise you'll never win.
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So how do I know how many totems I have left when im playing solo? And wasting time cleansing totems instead of doing gens when you have sub par team mates isn't good you need to be progressing the game and handling chases at the same time cleansing totems doesn't help neither, it just adds more weight to your back you can't even be sure you cleansed them all.
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Tunneling - it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Tell me, Mr. Entitled (and incredibly misinformed and incorrect) Survivor Main - if I find you and hook you, and go across the map, find and hook 2 other people, and I find you again after that working on a gen and you SOMEHOW still have DS, is that tunneling? Cause that is more times than not when killers are hit with DS. It has nothing to do with tunneling. It's purely you having 60 seconds of invulnerability. Conditions need to be added to DS to make it actually be ANTI TUNNEL. If even one person has been hooked, you are not being tunneled.
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But you know whats crazy I wouldn't have to run ds unbreakable if killers didn't wanna constantly tunnel or slug. And both ds and bt have counters don't tunnel or slug, and even if they have unbreakable its a one time use and you still get pressure from the slug because you have one less person on gens actually its 2 people off gens if you are chasing one survivor at the same time. And downing and injuring multiple survivors is optimal not tunneling one out the game it just seems like you want to tunnel with no downside if so keep it real no ones gonna hate you just say it these two perks punish anyone that tunnels. And even though this is off topic the game is actually more balanced than its ever been but its just so unfun to play as survivor. The devs have started a trend of killers with no counter play to attract players ie. (pyramid head, deathslinger, spirit). And lets mention the constant bs hits through windows and pallets which consistently happen its almost every game I cant even vault without getting hit its so unfair and pushes me awayh from this game.
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Once again tunneling is not doing the killers job effectively their job is to sacrifice all survivors. Tunneling one doesn't put progress on others and doesn't apply much pressure as you don't have multiple injured/healthy. Tunneling a good survivor will maybe result in 1 or 2 kills if you are lucky.
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"But you know whats crazy I wouldn't have to run ds unbreakable if killers didn't wanna constantly tunnel or slug."
And why do killers tunnel or slug? The answer is that the game is unbalanced to where they are forced to if they want to win against good survivors.
"And both ds and bt have counters don't tunnel or slug, and even if they have unbreakable its a one time use and you still get pressure from the slug because you have one less person on gens actually its 2 people off gens if you are chasing one survivor at the same time."
No, they do not have reasonable counters. If you read my post I already covered the response to most this. Playing ina way that avoids DS, BT, Unbreakable from from activating loses you the game against good survivors. You literally do not have the time to pass around 1 hooking each survivor one at a time. You do not get pressure from that slug when they have Unbreakable because you wasted more time downing that 1 survivor while 3 other survivors were pounding gens, than he wasted getting off the ground. That is NOT a good trade for the killer.
"And downing and injuring multiple survivors is optimal not tunneling one out the game it just seems like you want to tunnel with no downside if so keep it real no ones gonna hate you just say it these two perks punish anyone that tunnels.v"
No, you are misunderstanding. Survivors will force you into a tunnel/camp because they abuse the second chances, not because you want to stand at the hook. Those perks punish killer many, many, many times when they are not tunneling or camping. If you played both sides at rank 1 you would see this.
"And even though this is off topic the game is actually more balanced than its ever been but its just so unfun to play as survivor."
The game is more balanced than it ever has been, but to say it is balanced, is simply not true. Unfun to play survivor? Seriously? I play strictly solo survivor at rank 1 and it is literally a relaxing and chill experience currently. Compare that to the current rank 1 killer experience and they are not even in the same ball park. Do you play killer at rank 1 at all? Survivor is currently extremely easy and you literally have to try hard not to pip. Survivor is the power role in this game.
"The devs have started a trend of killers with no counter play to attract players ie. (pyramid head, deathslinger, spirit)."
This is completely inaccurate. What are you even talking about. All of those killers have tons of counter play. PH and Deathslinger aren't even that strong.
"And lets mention the constant bs hits through windows and pallets which consistently happen its almost every game I cant even vault without getting hit its so unfair and pushes me awayh from this game."
This is literally just ping related to bad dedicated servers, that's it. It screws over the killer just as often as you feel it screws over you.
What rank are you playing both sides at? These opinions are not things that most people with a lot of hours in the game think. I am referring to high rank games as that's where the balance issues are. The game is relatively balanced at low ranks where the survivors don't know what they're doing yet.
Post edited by Blueberry on1 -
Downing the person that just got unhooked in front of you and rehooking them is doing your job efficiently. And if you happen across that person while patrolling and are able to down and hook them immediately, thats also efficient. I think your problem is you dont know the definition of tunneling and are thus applying your bad definition to every time youve heard your favorite streamer say "tunneling is bad!"
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I don't watch dbd streams pretty bold of you to assume I do. Tunneling is immediately going for and attempting to down a recently unhooked survivor a hook them again in some cases tunneling is good at end game to secure a kill but at the start of a game it is not. But what is your definition since mine is clearly what my favorite streamer says.
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The thing is that you can do 4 totems and you get rekt because your team either couldn't find the 5th one or didn't care. I don't think it was meant by design to go and do more than 2 by yourself every match because that's even more boring than doing gens.
If the MMR won't account for Noed and will keep boosting Noed gamers up to the purple ranks then this forum will be still full of "survivors op pls nerf" threads.
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"don't slug of tunnel 'cause I'm running ds+unbreakable". Yeah, seems legit, killers should be nice to the little flowers and if they see a unsafe unhook just let it go. Yeah, survivor entitlement at its finest. Why not stop killers from using PGTW and BBQ too? God forbid a killer aplying pressure in the game by getting information or regressing the gens that get done "so slowly".
DS + Unbreakable (sometimes with BT) is just uncounterable. "Oh both are one time use". Yeah, you can unbreakable, get downed again, go to the hook (if the DS isn't off) and THEN YOU GET A DS AGAIN, 60 seconds that you'll be free from the hook AGAIN, and then theres it times 4.
And to top it off, if the killer decides to let you on the ground to "not tunnel" and go search for another survivor, one of your teammates will heal you up and guess what? You now have DS+Unbreakable AGAIN, for your second hook.
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Yeah thats not tunneling. Tunneling is when you chase 1 person through 3 hooks or 5 gens ignoring everything else. Theres nothing at all with what you just described.
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