I think both sides can agree keys and ebony moris are overpowered.
Hello, in dbd there are 3 types of people. Survivor mains, killer mains and people who play both sides. All of us have had countless arguments on the balance of the game, but I think there is one thing pretty much everyone agrees on. Keys and moris are overpowered. Let's start with keys. Basically, keys reward the survivors with a free hatch escape, and it creates a horrible dilemma, 1: if one of them opens the hatch, you can close it so nobody else can get in. 2: Close the hatch, and open the exit gates for the rest of the players. This is one of the stupidest dilemmas I have seen in the game, and keys are undoubtedly overpowered. Memento moris: The same logic about keys can be applied to moris, since both can grant free wins, but ebony moris don't create as much of a dilemma as keys, so only remove ebony maybe.
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Yep. As another person who plays both sides I agree that both keys and moris are overpowered and need to be tweaked to make them less frustrating to deal with.
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Hot take: Ivory Moris are a bit too strong too IMO. Just getting one person out of the game faster than intended is enough to really swing a match in a Killer's favor.
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One big thing they need to change about a survivor escaping through the hatch with a key is it triggering EGC. It should NOT do that.
As someone who is predominantly survivor, I've never understood why the killer closing the hatch while generators still need to be repaired and more than 1 survivor are left in the trial, why EGC starts...
They should be required to finish the rest of the generators as usual. They will just have been abandoned by one of their teammates, unless only 2 people are left and 1 abandons the other with a key. Then EGC as if the killer is closing hatch with 1 survivor left.
If 1 survivor escapes when 3 are left in the trial, the remaining 2 survivors should be required to finish the remaining generators and open a gate.
EGC will not start until a gate is opened.
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This is absolutly true. That's why matches get canceled when 1 survivor is missing. 3v1 changes the dynamic so drastically that even one less gen to do won't compensate a missing player.
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I'd like moris to be used in the same way ph does...then just add cypress to base kit and turn the other two into bp offerings that reward mori kills..moris are less drastic,- way more fun..and helps balance end game ds
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I play both sides, and I agree, both are far too strong. The key is just a instant escape with zero effort. I've had teams where 1 of them will hide in lockers the entire match waiting long enough to have hatch spawn, then proceed to wait on it to show off they're leaving. But, that said, those same people screw over the remaining teammates. Mori's are a complete joke. One hook and you can just be tunneled right off it and dead. No effort needed. I have tons of Moris and I refuse to use them for this reason. They literally reward poor gameplay. If I want to Mori someone, I'll use DH and then at least I have to actuall EARN that mori. I'm running into more and more killers lately that will just tunnel everyone off hook for the 'easy' kills. It's not fun, but if it were to happen to them with a key, they'd be the first to complain.
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I think they're not so much OP but implemented poorly. Restructured, both keys and moris could introduce some depth to the game.
I honestly think that both should be base kit abilities, but carry significant downsides. So every killer should be able to get greedy and murder a survivor on their own, to the displeasure of the entity who retaliates by making it easier on the remaining survivors. Maybe auto popping two 0% gens if there are 3 survivors left after the mori, opening the gates early if there are two remaining, and shackling the killer to half movement speed if only one is remaining after the mori.
On the other hand, I think the hatch should always be available from the match start, but close permanently 10 seconds after it's opened, and award full sacrifice bloodpoints to the killer as a "coward" escape for any survivor that uses it unless they are the last remaining.
Rough ideas, obviously, but I'm all for introducing new strategic pro/con choices to this game that pull it out of it's "oh i see you let's run in circles for a while" default gameplay loop.
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I really like the coward idea.
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I agree, going with 3 survivors instead of 4 is a HUGE difference.
I think Ebony Mori is an insanely OP item, Which removes ALL the fun or chances for the survivors in the game.
I also think its way, and I mean, WAY to easy to get (A lot of)
And even as a Killer, its not really fun to use it, the match ends fast (after a long queue) and you don't really get the satisfaction out of it, It feels more like running a cheat than that you really "deserved" that win. it really feels unfair.
I personally only consider bringing ebony mori when I see 4 survivors with a toolbox or flashlight. If you gonna gen rush me you deserve to be morried.
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Moris and Keys are definitely not on the same level. Especially not Ebony Moris.
At best, I would equate keys with an Ivory which as someone stated above, still vastly sways a match, especially if used the way most people do where they just kinda proxy camp and tunnel whoever gets hooked first
Keys are also not a "free escape" because you have to find the hatch without being found by the killer if you're the last one left while racing against the clock.
In fact, I'd argue the ONLY time keys are really strong is when there's 1 gen left, 3 survivors, and the survivors can all communicate with each other. Outside of that, they key is only either helping the person who has it, or on occasion, maybe 2 people get out using it.
If keys get a nerf, they don't deserve to be nerfed as hard as Moris (and yes I play both sides)
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I think cypress should be basekit as well. They already made death on hook instant when you're the last survivor anyway.
I'd say get rid of ebony and make ivory ultra rare.
Then purple key let's 1 person out and pink lets 2 people out.
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But then it's still broken for survivors
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How?
U use a purple key, only you get out.
You use pink you can get out 2 at the most. That means they would have had to complete 3 gennys already, then find the hatch and avoid the killer getting 1 of them
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Finding the hatch is never hard. On most maps, you can predict where it will spawn, as they are not random, and you don't need to be the last one left to use the key. Also, as I stated above, a key can automatically repair every generator in the trial if you close the hatch, which is arguably more powerful than an ebony mori. Rainbow maps with add-ons can also be used to find the hatch quite easily as well. With ebony moris, at least you have to hook a survivor, which is much harder than doing a few generators if the survivors have a good map. Both are imbalanced as hell, but I still think keys are a bit more overpowered than moris.
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Keys are fine when the last person uses them to escape (because by that point, the Killer already won) or when all four people use the Hatch after the gens are done (because it's not much different from just going through the gate). When multiple people escape through the Hatch before the gens are all done, it means that one side got a shortcut to the finish line with no additional work needed (no, someone else dying to make the hatch spawn is not additional work). Do I think keys are as strong as Ebony Moris? Not quite. Do I think they are still problematic in the same way as an Ebony Mori? Yes, since both have the same problem of reducing the threshold needed to win the game with no trade-off.
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Keys are necessary due to campers/sluggers
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Because most key escapes are for two people because they're losing..in this case..keys would still be the same while moris would be pretty much gone..not an equal exchange
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Yes they are overpowered but technically that is by design. Its a game more about fun than balance and I feel players look too much towards an outcome of winning or 100% balance than just enjoying the game for what it is.
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Mori's are necessary due to gen rush/sabo. See how that works?
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Oh my god, these posts pop up all the time... it's not the keys that are broken, it's the HATCH. If the Hatch only spawned when all 5 gens are done or when one survivor is left alive, keys would not be an issue.
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That would be a good balance change and that is a fair assessment.
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How are keys going to help you when you will be facecamped by a Bubba?
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i dont think keys are as bad as ebony mori seeing as key usually only works out for 1 person meanwhile killers only run that 4k mori
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That and honestly this game isn't fun at all at red rank its more of a work load than a fun time
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I wholeheartedly disagree. I do think that things that are there purely "for fun" do have a place in DBD, but both moris and keys are unfun. On both sides. It's pretty obvious that losing just because the enemy team has a Mori/Key is unfun, but even using this isn't fun ... It's a pretty hollow victory, because you know you didn't outskill anyone, you just brought an op af item/offering in, sure it can sometimes be fun when you escape by an inch with a key or Mori a toxic survivor (still only for the user's side.), but those are such edgecases ... It's not worth keeping such unhealthy things in the game just for said edgecases.
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That depends what side you are on. Mori's will be fun for some killer players and keys will be fun for survivor players. You may think they are not but ones opinion doesn't make it a fact for all.
Your comment goes back to what is said when you mention win or lose, instead of looking at how these can make players change up how they play. You focus on the outcome only.
Outskilled doesn't have to come into it with these as again they are designed not with perfect balance in mind but as something really powerful which changes up the game.
I dont think anyone on the dev team has ever said they were meant to be balanced. For some reason players want this game to be perfectly balanced and all things that are or seem to be overpowered taken out without thinking maybe that is part of what makes the game so unique and why it does so well.
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No, you don't have to do more all of the generators to use the key. If there are 2 people in the trial and 2 generators left, the hatch can spawn, meaning the hatch will spawn 1 more generator than the survivors alive. The "pressure gens" excuse is so worn out, because you can do a generator before the killer can reach it sometimes.
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I'm a little confused about what you're trying to say here and I'm not sure if it's because you don't understand hatch mechanics or what.
A key does not automatically repair anything. I'm assuming you're referring to when someone uses a key and the killer closes the hatch behind them triggering end game. In this case, a couple of things would have had to happen.
- All survivors are alive in which case the hatch would only spawn if they gens are ALL already completed making your scenario irrelevant.
- One survivors has died, 4 generators are already completed leaving just 1 left to do, and one survivors escapes through the hatch and the hatch gets closed behind them leaving the last 2 to try to escape the doors. In this scenario, there was only one gen left to do anyway.
- Two are already dead, 3 gens are done with 2 left to do, and someone escaped through hatch and got the hatch closed behind them.
There's no automatic repairs, that's called endgame. The generators are blocked by default and in all of those scenarios, there weren't many gens left to do in the first place.
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What I meant by 'automatic repairs' is triggering the endgame, and even if you use the key when there is one generator left, and the killer closes the hatch, it is still extremely powerful. Also, I do know the hatch mechanics, the hatch spawns one more generator than the survivor alive.
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The thing is, it's so hard to see keys in their hand. I had a ghostface game earlier, where I outplayed everyone and sacrificed to of their teammates. Their were 2 gens and 2 survivors left, so I found both of them on a hill, and when I go up to them, they escape through the hatch, even though I outplayed them multiple times.
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Also to anyone who think keys and Moris are on the same level of overpowered (because sure, keys in certain situation do hold a lot of power), do this:
Play however much you would play in a typical day as killer. Keep track of how many times someone escapes because of a key and how many people get out (1 person hatch escaping versus 2 or 3)
The next day, play the same amount of time and see how many Moris you deal with and how many people are killed because of Moris (1 person mori versus 2-4 people being Morid)
If you don't want to do 2 separate days, just do 2 separate sessions in the same day (although your sample size will be smaller)
See which is the bigger problem for yourself.
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