Whys no one using ds anymore?

It's really not that great of a perk. Can't remember the last time I was hit by it as killer

I never used it. I still see people using it. Probably not as often though.

It is absolutely rampant at high rank. I get hit with DS most games tbh, or at the very least need to slug someone that clearly has it. Before anyone accuses me of tunneling, the problem with DS now is that it can be used aggressively to great effect. If you get downed shortly after being hooked and are also running Unbreakable it's a guaranteed escape. If you jump in a locker it's also pretty much a guaranteed escape, because the killer is forced to either eat the DS or leave you. So, what happens is the people using DS play crazy aggressive after getting unhooked because they know they have a get out of jail free card.

The problem with this is the stun is so minor that if you're not really close to another loop it's not saving you from anything. It's just delaying your hook by a bit. Every time you eat a DS that saves it from being used end game for a guaranteed escape, and you still get them, only a few seconds later.

Also if they use it aggressively to say, unhook someone else, then you're still going to get another free hook regardless, because the stun isn't long enough to prevent you from hitting one of the two. It takes some of that time to unhook someone, and then you just need to walk a few steps and bam one of them is down, unless they have SB. If they have Borrowed Time, you can just hit the DS user and it doesn't matter.

I only use DS when I'm being tunneled a lot, but even then as soon as I start using it they either stop the tunneling, or they slug. I haven't had a DS skill check in a long ass time honestly. It's only good to show an obsession so they think about their actions. If no one's using DS and there's no obsession they're free to tunnel to their heart's content, but as soon as there's an obsession in play they're more careful about it. This is why there needs to be an obsession every game regardless of if there's an obsession perk.

I consider DS to be nothing more than a perk to piss off a killer and be guaranteed to be tunneled after successfully using it. That's been my experience at least.

It's a five second stun. That's massive. If the survivor just holds Shift and W, they're 20 meters away in five seconds. Assuming the survivor just keeps running in a straight line, it would take a 115% movement speed killer 32 seconds to catch up, and that's including Bloodlust. If you're not playing a highly mobile killer like Billy or Spirit they may as well be on the other side of the map.

DS players will try to aggro you away from other players. I've seen injured DS users straight up take hits for people in the late game because they also have Unbreakable and it doesn't matter to them if they go down.

I never run it. I play to have fun. Not make people miserable online. Try it sometime.

Yea I'd say because of Pyramid Head. Ino I stopped using it for a short while because of him.

Again, the animation cancels out some of that stun time, because the player has to be dropped off the shoulder in the animation before they can move. In essence, the survivor is also stunned for a time. As for "dead zones", if you were chased by the killer, you likely dropped pallets, which were likely broken in the area you were chased to, creating a pallet-less area. Don't see how that's hard to imagine.

Btw, if you're saying that players claim you were tunneling them, then you killed them, so I don't see what you're complaining about.

everyone uses DS, killers just slug, everyone stops using ds, killers start to tunnel, everyone uses ds, killers just slug......

That was just some napkin math, but I'll bite - let's say it takes you a second and a half to fall and start running. That's still going to give you 14 meters on the killer, which will still take them 22 seconds or so to make up if they instantly beeline in the direction you ran off in, which they won't, because you're almost certainly off their screen for the whole stun animation and they'll need at least a fraction of a second to figure out exactly where you went. That's more than enough time to find a pallet or a window to loop around, and it's often enough to discourage the killer from continuing to chase you. Midwich has very few safe pallets, true, but most maps aren't like that.

Even if you assume the worst case scenario, though, where you're in a massive dead zone and the killer just runs after you and hits you, you still wasted probably 30 seconds of their time. They might down you in like 20 seconds, and then take roughly 10 seconds for the pickup animation + walking time + hook animation. That's 30 seconds in which all of your teammates get to do objectives without the killer pressuring them. That could be more than a full generator's worth of progress, or maybe it'll cost you two heals and a hex totem instead. Thinking about it another way, it's the equivalent of a non-DS user running the killer for an extra 30 seconds. That's a huge benefit to your team.

I'm Gonna skip most of the discussion to answer the first question here. Because at pretty much purple up every killer knows Dstrike. So if you PRETEND to have dstrike. Killers will slug you and wait (or just leave you in a locker if you can manage that) rather than pick you up. The threat of the perk is more valuable than the perk itself at this point as any killer worth their salt will NOT trigger dstrike intentionally.

Except people don't pick up survivors on most occasions who have DS. They'd rather leave them on the ground which negates that 30 seconds entirely. Btw, there's no way most of a generator will be completed in 30 seconds. It takes 80(or maybe 90 now?) for one survivor to power a generator and most don't use toolboxes because now they're pretty crappy, there's an increased penalty for multiple survivors on a gen, and a great skill check nerf for a while. It's not even half of a generator unless multiple people were on a gen. If all three were on separate gens, MAYBE it'd be a full generator's worth of progress separated across all gens, but then there's PGTW. If someone has DS, they've been hooked once. As for the "take you a second to figure out where they went" there's something for that already that gives you plenty of info on exactly where they went, it's called scratch marks, and as far as off their screen, the only way you'd be off their screen is if they had sprint burst and it came up, unless there were walls around.

If you as a survivor FORCED a DS to hit, via grab or whatever, then there was a reason(Being tunneled into a locker, can't survey surroundings as well because you're being chased to a locker and if you couldn't get to a pallet then, there most likely wasn't one there to begin with or you would have ran to it), unhook(you're already in an easy spot to get hit again and it takes more time to unhook, meaning less of the stun time is used on gaining distance and the killer can get you both down easily at that point if he wants), just to be a jerk(killer will leave you on the ground and go after the person they were originally chasing). DS is just an inconvenience. The threat of DS as someone else said is it's only practical use and that keeps killers slightly more wary of survivors. The only time I could see DS as any kind of thing more than an inconvenience is if there are multiple people with it, or at the end game.

If I were to run in a straight line after hitting a killer with DS he'd be on my ass in maybe 7 seconds after he was stunned. That's how much distance you gain from it.

That's because it doesn't work defensively, also 2 meters does not give you 3 seconds. Killers travel 4.4 to 4.6 meters per second. 2 meters would give you less than a half of a second. I trusted your math originally without actually looking at the numbers, but now I'm starting to doubt.

As for the argument killers wouldn't worry about DS if it didn't have any useful effect, the effect is that it annoys them and impedes their progress, however small. It doesn't matter how good or bad it is, killers hate stuns. Flashlight blinds for example are considered "toxic" by killers. I've even seen killers call me toxic for healing mid-chase. This is why they avoid it, they don't want the punishment, regardless of how much of a punishment it actually is. That's why people are always arguing for DS time to be shorter, or not work when someone is hooked, or whatever other thing that goes on. The nerfs that are always called for are ones that allow them to ignore the perk altogether. That said, it's a perk. If it were made to not work on most occasions, it wouldn't be a perk. I've only seen one suggestion to change the perk that I thought was good, and that wasn't even a nerf but more of a change. That was to make the timer 30 seconds, but if the timer is still going while you are downed, the timer freezes, forcing the stun regardless of whether they waited to pick you up or not.

I never see DS used because I tend to avoid it and try not to go after people who have it. If they purposefully get in my way I'll down them to make them not be a threat, and go after someone else. If they continue to try and annoy me, I'll slug them constantly until they die on the ground. It's just how I work. People will generally try to heal them annoyances like that so I also have bait as well.

That's a really good point, and I agree with it. For me, the moment someone starts tunneling I go straight scummy survivor mode.

Except the survivor has to already be ahead of the killer in that case, they don't just immediately start a full sprint, it also takes a survivor a second to readjust. You might be moving as soon as you're able but you're not going to know exactly where you need to go the moment you land on your feet and are able to move. I'm just not sure that even would make the slightest difference.

From a killers perpsective

It's not a very good perk and to really get use out of it most of the time the killer has to either A: forget who was just hooked and down you again for pick.

B: aggresively tunnel you.

Most of the time when I see DS take effect is that survivors will blatantly stop in front of me, attempt to straight up block the killer for a down so they can use DS or DS locker. And out of all that they get...like...what...1 second stun plus 1 second attack cooldown and the time it takes to pick someone up.

Not bad...but you know...you use it once and its gone, you might as well pick a perk that will help you get away like dead hard or sprint burst. If you want to stun killers...any means possible-even if its got a long cooldown- or better yet...head on. Head on basically has no counter because of the janky hit boxes and it recovers reasonably fast.

DS used to be big daddy perk when it had unlimited time and didn't need a hook requirement. It was so OP that being obsession meant a survivor would basically never get chased in the past. Most survivors would complain to me for not chasing them because veryone assumes when they're obs they got DS-and almost every time they did- but while DS has its uses it really out classed by many better perks. PH nerfed it even more..but really, there are just better perks out there to use now.

I suspect you're seeing less DS because more people are unlocking more useful perks from shrine gradually over time or getting to the "expirementing with builds" point of their plays.

That or the survivor went into a locker which forces a grab or the killer to leave? Either way the survivor gets away because of DS.

Also you speak as if DS isn't one of the most easily abused perks in the entire game.

Didn't say it was bad, just think it's overrated.

I doubt its because of pyramid head. I saw fewer and fewer survivors using ds weeks before pyramid head. I think its partly because for most people ds isnt gonna be used in like 9/10 games without the survivors "forcing the killers" hand. For example running into lockers in front of the killer, working on gens/unhooking survivors to try and force the killer to grab them. And a lot of killers have either grown wise of this or tired of it, so they just slap them or ignore them if possible. Making ds fairly useless as a perk because most killers dont actually tunnel.

Thats ofc my personal experience and thoughts on the matter. That the more the perk got abused the more killers refused to play into the survivors hands, making survivors either have a "useless perk" or use more consistent perks.

I've noticed a slight drop in it's use but not much. If it's early game and I think someone has it I'll just eat the DS but if it's late game I'll just slug.

As survivor I've only used DS twice and both times was blatantly tunneled after using it so I bring better solo perks like Self Care, Lithe, Kindred, and I'll switch up perk 4 for Spine Chill, BT, or a "meme" perk depending on how I'm feeling or what the Tome challenge requires.

The problem with the meta, imo, is people get "tunneled" (sometimes it's actually tunneling but quite often it's just they were the only person the killer found) so they start bringing DS. Killers get tired of DS destroying their momentum so they slug to apply pressure. Survivors are tired of being slugged so they start bringing in Unbreakable as well. Killers can't really avoid DS anymore by slugging so they do everything in their power to avoid it and only slug after chases have gone on a while so survivors start trying to force the use of DS so it's not a wasted perk slot. Killers get wise to that and start immediately tunneling the person who forced the use of DS on them so people stop bringing it as much. Killers notice there's less DS use and start "tunneling" more and the cycle starts all over again.

Personally I've noticed a wider use of Adrenaline lately since it can often give both Unbreakable and Hope effects to the survivors and still works if you're already exhausted. As long as you aren't dead already lol.

That's weird because when I play killer my shoulder constantly gets demolished by all the decisives