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The end all be all DS change
This is pretty much the most fair version of DS that can exist imo. Let me know
1. Only lasts 30 seconds at Rank 3, but never goes down during a chase.
2. Deactivates upon repairing a generator, entering a locker or being fully healed.
3. Only one DS is active at a time.
Comments
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Make it 60 seconds and pause during a chase, or paused when slugged. It would be too easy to slug and avoid ds if it is 30 seconds total.
I dont think it should deactivate when healed, but it should deactivate if you try to rescue someone off a hook.
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Yes, please. If nothing else, please at least implement #2. I'm tired of Decisive Strike being used as an offensive baiting tool when it was clearly envisioned to be an anti tunneling perk.
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So it only lasts 30 seconds around Rank 3? Rank doesn't always equal skill so it seems kinda silly to have it associated with rank.
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He means tier 3 I believe. I often call them rank.
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@Wubalubadubdub03 whoops.
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Fully healed I mean. If you have time to fully heal, you arent being tunneled, or does the killer have any momentum to cancel.
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Yes I meant the perks tier. Not the survivors rank.
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I think decisive shouldn't work at all if you're not the obsession. I mean, what's the point in it being an obsession perk if anyone can use it despite obsession status?
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Well, what if a non obsession is being aggressively tunneled?
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You got me there. The only real answer I could think of is "sucks to be them", but that isn't exactly fair.
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To also cancel it if survivors healed would make the perk too weak and survivors would hate the change.
The devs would need both sides to like the change for it to happen.
To pause ds during chase and cancel ds if they work on gens or rescue seems balanced.
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I like it but 30 sec is too short and 60 sec is too long 45 would be a lot more fair
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If a perk has this many stipulations there is something wrong with the perk by design. Plus #3 sounds like it can get complicated real fast.
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That would not be fair, imagine this situation:
The killer gets a survivor, the last ten gets popped the survivor is being hooked. The survivor runs DS and Adrenaline, he is healed now even though he is on the hook => his DS would not work anymore
Killer runs noet. Survivor gets unhooked, killer camped and hits him, survivors ds does not work because he was healed for one sec. How is that fair?
And if you want to deactivate lockers than you also have to change DS that the timer would not run out if you are being slugged, else the killer would just slug him for 30 sec and pick him up.
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I can agree with everything except the locker. Survivors who are being tunneled shouldn't only have the option to be slugged for their ds. Or if someone's baiting you to pull them out and you dont want to eat their ds, just... ignore them? They can only taunt you for a minute. If a killer wants to tunnel a survivor, pull them out of the locker and eat their ds or wait 30 seconds. Or just find someone else.
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I can agree to this but no.3 is unnecessary since it's only 30 seconds. Also I'd pause the timer if slugged as well but only if within a certain distance to the killer. Once the killer is x metres away resume the timer.
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You need to think about EGC + deliverance or just general EGC time too.
Imho, during EGC no ds should work. Only during typical trial.
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Tbh killer were pissed with the ruin nerf and they did not care at all about the killer the raison was because the perk is unfair against survivor and its use in 80% of the time in the red rank game
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I think 30s could work with your suggestions including the locker scenario but the timer would need to not go down when slugged and also it should block aura reading imo within a set distance for all survivors within say 5m so being healed is viable as it blocks both.
BT also needs a timer before it works when u hooking say 15s and then it can also work on killers who are oblivious.
DS changes within the egc and slugging the timer does go down.
The issue with the perk is the amount of stipulations we can see are needed for it to still be beneficial and have a purpose but not to be useless.
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To be honest. Tunneling isn't against any rules. It is ######### and disgusting yes. But it should not be the reason for a perk change or not.
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How is this fair that killers can easily bypass DS by slugging, and survivors are punished for trying to do any action?
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As if you don't already run DS with unbreakable
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Please explain to me how else a killer is to avoid DS other then by slugging?
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What? You just buffed it
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Tbf though we slug them now for 60 seconds 🤷♂️
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Whats stopping survivors from getting unhooked going over to a gen right now and when i come over they hop right into a locker. Guess im either getting dsd or waiting outside the locker for a while.It should really just stay the same it is but at least deactivate on lockers because if survivors want to counter being slugged they have 2 now.
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I guess that only matters for Survivor Perks. Because everyone knows most Killers were not okay with the Ruin change.
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i have a better idea.
let make Decisive Strike a FULL anti tunnel perk.
- make it usable 2 times, i mean you cant just get tunneled 1 time right?
- After the killer hooks someone else DS will get deactivated immediately!
- as long you have a terror radius the ds timer will not run out that will force the killer to chase someone else. (stealthy killer will profit from that but honestly if they wanna throw the game just to go after you all the time its their fault)
- if you get any TANK THE HIT status effect like Borrowed time, insta heal, protection hit it will also get deactivated that would solve the endgame issues, also would be good when people farm you infront of the killer with BT before he even went away)
that is my idea.
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If that's your issue with it, wouldn't a more elegant solution be to disable DS when you touch a generator? Then you don't have to worry about moonwalking to cheese the mechanics, it just straight up disables the second you decide, "I'm not getting tunneled, I'm putting myself back in the game."
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It would because rn survivors basically use it as a weapon to get gens done instead of a way to get away.
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Yes! Please!
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So DS would be permanent after unhooking as long as you don't touch the gen? It would be easily abused by SWF...
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Also Peanits. If I have DS permanently and I play solo then what is stopping me for just traveling the map and just waiting for the hatch? You see, it will not work. Let's just leave it as it is as long as we don't have a better idea for DS to make it more fair for people who gets tunneled and farmed.
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That still doesnt solve locker "tech", forcing a grab, or being fully healed and having DS active.
These are the main problems with the perk.
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I think the problem with DS isn't with the conditions that cause the trigger so much as that it's a passive ability that requires next to no effort from the survivor for a major momentum shifting benefit. There's zero counterplay except to slug and wait - which, if someone is legit tunneling in a toxic way, they don't really mind doing. Otherwise DS, and BT, really, are just get-out-of-jail-free cards that encourage poor play from survivors as it just punishes killers for survivor mistakes.
I've never intentionally tunneled, for example, but I get accused of it constantly by survivors who don't understand that they're farming their teammates. I want to just capitalize on the unsafe hook, re-hook, and be on my way, but I can't without risking losing hook pressure and delaying gen patrol. My only options (since of course, there's no way to know if someone is running DS) are to slug and stand around and wait for DS cooldown, or abandon the slug and lose a hook state and at least salvage some heal time. In both cases, I pay the price for a survivor mistake. If it's an endgame camp, the survivor often just escapes for free.
I'd just change it to be DH on the ground. Make it a timing outplay for survivors where, if they aren't exhausted, they can trigger to roll over and stab the killer just as he goes to pick them up for a brief stun on the killer and going back to an injured state. I never feel bad when a survivor escapes because of a nifty DH - I got outplayed. That's fun. A near automatic take-backsie when I've already done what I need to do to earn the hook - that's not fun. When the opposing team makes a big mistake that you recognize and capitalize on but ends up with you losing ground instead with no effort from the opponent - that's even less fun.
Unless you want to give me a killer perk that automatically warps a survivor to my shoulder if they duck or click their flashlight too many times in quick succession I don't see how current DS is a defensible mechanic.
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They wont change it cuz BHVR [BAD WORD] hates killer and just shits on killer mains all the time
Have you ever, even once, played killer? Survivor's have EVERYTHING in there favor from the dev's. The whole game is survivor sided
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Um. This is what many killers have been saying for awhile now. 60 seconds blanket protection is a bit much. If they do anything but run or hide the DS deactivates.
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Leave it at 60 seconds, but deplete the timer when survivor touches a generator, heals someone else, or unhooks someone else.
This would make it more truly anti-tunnel. Sure the killer could still wait the 60 seconds, or eat the DS, but if the survivor team is *any half decent* thats a gamelosing move of the killer.
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That's the solution people have been asking for for a while, but we have yet to hear anything regarding consideration of changes to DS.
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That's the solution most people have been asking for for a while (along with it disabling upon entering a locker), but we have yet to hear anything regarding consideration of changes to the perk.
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How about touching a rgeressing generator you ran past while being chased? Should this still stop DS?
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Double heal with we will make it is pretty fast tho, Killer could just go to a gen and right back to the recent unhooked survivor to tunnel him (with mori)
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Exactly, and that at least punishes the killer if he stays on the slug or avoids tunneling by the killer leaving. But 30 seconds is not enough time to punish a killer for tunneling. especially when the timer is already going down when unhooked, because most killer start the chase around 10 seconds after the unhook happened (unless facecamping ofc) so standing on the slug for 20 seconds doesnt hurt enough
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Moonwalking with a mori will counter this unfortunately mate.
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20 seconds is a 4th of a gen. If all 3 survivors are on gens (as they probably are) thats 60 seconds gone. I disagree, it is enough punishment. Most people arent doing that anyway.
That said, i dont care about the timer, i was just pointing out people get slugged either way. Theres 2 situatiins where ds is bs. When they arent being tunneled and i happen across them at 59 seconds and get hit with a ds i wasnt expecting, and at the very end of the match it virtually gaurantees a free escape.
So what is probably the best solution is to remove the timer entirely. It becomes deactivated when the survivor fully heals or interacts with a gen/locker/totem and doesnt work at all during egc.
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Pallets in the first 2 cases. Unbreakable in the 3rd.
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The current issue with DS is that DS is anti-momentum perk. It is a perk that punishes the killer for doing "too good" at their job if they hook people too quickly and many survivors have DS timers going at the same time. The killer should not be expected to memorize multiple 60 second timers in their head. Its suppose to be anti-tunnel perk. It should just deactivate after another survivor has been hooked. If both unhooker and hooked person get unhooked, It means survivor team messed up and killer capitalized on their mistakes but this can be easily prevent with Borrow time.
When it comes to killer powers like Pyramid head, Killer powers are kinda like extra tools for the killer to win and you guys choose a killer a extremely taboo tool for killers to win by. As sad as it is to say, Tunneling is a form of map pressure for killer because eliminating a person early on from the game is one less person on generators and it is one step closer to the killers victory condition. Unfortunately It isn't exactly a thrilling experience for survivor but it is part of the game. There are other taboo topic in regard lame DBD gameplay. A common one being camping which is best showcased by the killer Hag. Even if your not next to the hook, her traps make it look like she is "always" there and her strategy towards winning is oriented around hook camping. Another lame strategy exercised by killers and I personally hate this one, I'm going to call it slug-hook camping. The idea is that if you slug 2 people, you can hook one person, than pick another person and just drop next to the hook. This is commonly practiced by Billy and Huntress because Billy has instant down with no cooldown/drawback so you are unable to complete generators as half of your team is disabled but you are also unable to save anyone from hook/floor because you'll get instant downed yourself or the person you attempt to pick up/unhook will immediately be put on floor. Luckily there is now a perk that can counter this strategy in SoulGuard however I'm unsure of how effective this perk is at dealing with this gameplay. I don't think these lame tactic should be promoted in the game, however if the killer power suggests you to play a certain way that yields better results, than player will attempt exercise this gameplay within the game.
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If you're still around the hook 10 seconds after the unhook, that's not a tunnel. If you're fully healed by the time the killer starts a new chase, that's not a tunnel.
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You obviously dont play the game much.
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