General Discussions
General Discussions
Reminder: Billy has a 75% kill rate at red ranks
According to the last available dev stats. Does that seem balanced to anyone? Red ranks that are supposedly all coordinated SWF btw. 15 threads a day calling to nerf DS that gives 60 seconds that a survivor can take a third hit but the ability to one hit down with speed Billy all match is "perfectly balanced". This is a relatively minor nerf that has long been needed.
Comments
-
Reminder that the post also says "Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers."
Also according to those stats, Ghost and Pig have similar kill rates in NOVEMBER of 2019
47 -
These would be very unreliable since the Ruin change, especially that 80% of killers used Ruin.
0 -
- Uses Dev stats unironically
Sorry, few people are going to believe you because the stats are usually flawed in some way, whether it be low ranks or just ignoring certain fundamentals.
8 -
This is one of the most crackpot conspiracy theories I've ever heard. Few people are going to believe you
6 -
In addition to the answers given above id add yes, that is balanced as in my ooinion 3k is balance. Its a survival horror game not a nascar race where everyone gets a participation trophy. Or at least it shouldnt be imo
4 -
Great, another DS nerf thread.
1 -
Remember kids, those stats are only useful when they help me achieve my agenda.
11 -
Imagine having the ability to avoid his instadown using windows and pallets
1 -
I didn’t say it was on purpose, though that was partly a poor choice of wording for me
0 -
Reminder that it doesn't say the numbers aren't accurate or that they don't MEAN anything, just that there could be something causing this change that isn't related to their base kit, but since Billy's addons are mostly just things that make his base power better without adding anything else(like Forever Freddy was), the numbers are pretty much exactly what they're saying. The main thing here though is that their released stats are outdated. I wouldn't imagine Hillbilly has it any WORSE at this point in time, as things for him and other killers have only gotten BETTER, but he shouldn't have used outdated information without pointing out that he was using outdated information and describing what could have changed in the time since that information was released.
How is a 3k a balanced game? Equally skilled survivors to the killer should all die except one and that one should get hatch in every game? Wow, lol. I can't imagine a game where both teams are equally matched being a hatch game considered balanced.
7 -
And? So all killers are really powerful in this game and killer mains just complain to much about OP survivors?
0 -
I'm not gonna claim that either side is OP, but I have to disagree with the statement "all killers are really powerful".
1 -
I've said that Hillbilly needed something like this for ages. He is also "balanced" in terms of the emblem system, since his chainsaw only gets half the chaser emblem for doing HALF THE WORK, but kills are easier to get because of it.
I'm happy they're doing this and now more Hillbillies will either use their hammer or play a different killer.
5 -
Not a DS nerf thread. Just pointing out some killer main hypocrisy.
0 -
There are so many people who don’t belong in red ranks
2 -
Reminder: A lot of the survivors in red ranks do not belong in red ranks.
2 -
Nurse is also the weakest killer in the game if we go solely with these stats.
1 -
According to the stats nurse is the weakest killer in the game. Do you believe that too?
1 -
And the stat deniers emerge. Like it or not the devs use actual game stats and information when making changes. What better indicator do we have than the stats?
1 -
Are you asking if I believe the statistics? Yes, I believe the stats. Could we use more updated stats so the community can better understand the need for changes? Of course (hint hint bhvr). But for now we go with the facts we have.
1 -
You have to understand these stats are all generalized from a large pool of very different players in very different elos/scenarios.
If we got specific demographic stats near the top elo it would be much better. But of all players across the game? Probably gonna have wonky stats.
1 -
Thanks for admitting that you think nurse is the worst killer in the game. Makes you look a bit...let's say special.
I don't think i want to keep discussing with you if you believe in obviously flawed and outdated stats.
1 -
Sure, and? Does it invalidate them? What players do you feel it should be balanced for?
0 -
Overall nurse is hard to play so the kill stats are low. At red ranks with a higher skilled player she has about a 65% kill rate. Facts are facts.. You are questioning the statistics the devs released and I am the special one? Now we have DBD truthers. Lol!
1 -
They were never valid in the first place. They're just fun to look at when presented like they were.
We need stats from different ranks and based on the group size. Getting useful and meaningful stats out of that would take a lot more work.
0 -
Sure, more specific stats would be great. Can we draw reasonable conclusions from the facts we have? Of course we can.
0 -
If you consider Nurse the weakest killer in the game then yes we can draw conclusions from them.
1 -
At high ranks she is not the weakest as the stats show. When is the last time you watched a rank 15 or so nurse. Not pretty
1 -
I say it to showcase the problem with drawing conclusions from such generalized data: It shows the (arguably now) strongest killer in the game as the weakest one. If it has such a huge flaw in it surely there are other, just as problematic but harder to find, problems within the data that we haven't even pointed out yet.
If there's such huge flaws in the data then drawing a reliable and useful conclusion like Billy is OP and needs a nerf would be hard, no?
0 -
How quickly we forget. Just a reminder: "Red Ranks" statistics weren't really from red rank matches.
3 -
Yes, red rank is full of good players, let's not forgot that this game's ranking system is perfect and a bad player doesn't get past rank 10, never...
0 -
Careful. That blade you're carrying is double edged.
1 -
With how jacked up matchmaking is in general, that data is HORRIBLE for drawing conclusions from. If the matchmaker worked as intended, a rank 1 survivor could bring in 3 rank 20 teammates and the killer theyre SUPPOSE to go against is a rank 1. Its not hard to guess what the result of that match would be. This is assuming it worked as intended even.
In matches where matchmaking ISNT working correctly...we get this.
or this
From these 2 games we can't really draw reasonable conclusions on how many kills red rank killers get, or how many escapes red rank survivors get.
6 -
I have no idea what you mean by this... at all...
what is the double edge?
0 -
Simply if we're disavowing stats they can never be used in your advantage either.
Then all we'll have is personal accounts of things with zero supporting evidence.
1 -
Also you should edit-add this important reminder since you are first comment: I think devs changed the rank reset system at that time already. Which means red ranks was already overfilled with every single potato survivor. So having a high kill rate is pretty much meaningless.
0 -
we can use the stats, but we can't pretend the stats are what they aren't.
are they a good representation of pick rate across all ranks? yes. it shows which killers are picked at any rank.
are they a good representation of kill rates across all ranks? yes. it shows the average kill ratio across all ranks. since nothing is left out, this works.
But... does kill rate across all ranks matter when we are talking about balance? no. because you don't balance games around bad players.
are they a good representation of pick rates on red ranks? yes. it shows which killers are picked in red ranks.
are they a good representation of kill rates on red ranks? no. Because it shows "high ranking killers vs anybody" instead of "high ranking killers vs 4 high ranking survivors". skewing the results.
1 -
I know. I have seen people using the same graph to justify their claims and then say it is not reliable when used against them. Its pathetic.
2 -
I keep seeing people say don't balance around bad players but the best players literally make the game a pointless venture. So pointless that if you can't hook and down the entire team before a single gen is done then you might as well quit.
The real issue is they need to punish people for consistently doing well. Which they can't. And taking swf squads out of the game. Which they can't. Or making every killer so overwhelmingly effective that you must work together to win. Which they can't because the game is both geared towards randoms and swf.
There's also the asymmetrical nature of the game and it always comes down to same thing in similar genres. The survival team always has the advantage when they work together.
0 -
You've looked at the wrong chart. In the chart for Red Ranks Freddy is on Top, followed by Hillbilly, than Spirit and Hag.
Obviously you can't draw conclusions from stats alone, but both Spirit and Freddy were nerfed after the stats were released (Spirit got her chances in December with the Oni's Release and Freddy's Slowdown addons were nerfed in one of the hotfixes).
The Fact that two of the top tier killers (according to the chart) got nerfed and with Billy now the third one gets changed makes me believe that the Devs do consider those stats for balance changes (but that's just a my conspiracy theory).
1 -
To be fair DS at current form is a crutch. It should be toned down
0 -
Hes always been too successful, but killer mains consider the 4k balanced.
Its about time he got tweaked to require more skill
1 -
No, if you mean the change that only sets you back one colour. That came in December with Oni, the stats are from November.
0 -
Reminder that survivors are boosted 99% of the time. 😉
1 -
You know that positioning yourself right is a key to be a good player. Anyways, you clearly aren't good at the game and don't know what you are saying to complain about Billy's instadown, so I'm not going to argue with you any further. Have a good day
0 -
You don't need to 4k every game for a killer to be good, just fyi. Where's the unlimited instadowns for myers while traversing the map at ridiculous speeds?
0 -
You should know about these stats that red ranks does not mean red ranked killer vs red ranked survivors.
It means red ranked killer vs survivors of all ranks. This has been confirmed by bhvr. So nobody knows how it exactly looks like at red ranks. Given the fact that many boosted survivors are there because the game is too easy to play as survivor, killers probably have a high killrate as 70-75%.
3 -
As far as I remember the matchmaking worked a bit better back when they collected the stats.
But that's not the point, I don't think the actual numbers matter as much as the distribution does. If you look at the numbers every Killer would need a nerf because they all have a killrate over 50% but that's obviously not the case.
But some killers are clearly higher than others and because I can't see a reason, why the killrate should be distorted for some killers but not for others, I think the stats can still give you an idea about the strength of the killers.
As I mentioned, Spirit and Freddy, the other top killers from chart, were already nerfed so I'm not surprised that Billy gets a nerf too.
1 -
Your statements don't compute. If the game was so easy to play as survivor, then the kill rate wouldn't be 70-75%. DUCY?
1 -
Yes it would be as you do not take into account that 70-75% does not represent red ranks vs red ranks, it just represents red ranks killers vs all survivors. Lots of survivors get to red ranks without any formidable experience. The game tells them you are créme de la créme when in reality you are a yellow ranked survivor at best. Horrible decision making and inability to loop is something far too common in the red ranks. Solo q is a struggle not because of strong killers but because of boosted potato survivors and garbage mm.
Check another thread called "devs this should be a priority" where a killer in red ranks gets matches against yellow rank survivors. This match would count for example into that statistic. MM has been broken for a long time and I do not remember for how long but as you can see, fixing that is no priority, adding mechanics like overheat is (surprised canadians never used a chainsaw irl the thought of it overheating is hilarious).
Easy survivor play. Just do gens, all killers struggle with that. Play swf if you do not want any challenge at all. Me and my friends who played together regulary had 90% escape rates. Still waiting for anything that resembles skill to be added to survivor.
2
