http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why do killers need to be high skill and survivors dont?
Honest question. I read this for every single killer nerf, "we want to reward skillful play and not give killer free value". Just in the mechanics of the game, killer already takes more skill than survivor. You have to track gens, find hooks, remember who you hooked, remember what perks each survivor has, remember who has what item, know each tile, know your own power/perks, and mindgame.
Survivor on the other hand, they need to know the tile, which killer, and occasionally hit a skill check or the e key.
I think the only thing remotely skillful about survivor is flashlight timing.
I feel like killer needs to be streamer quality to have any chance at winning, but survivors get their hands held through the entire game. So why aren't survivors being forced to play skillful? Where are the cooldowns on flashlights to stop people from spamming, where are the very hard skill checks, where are the tiles that are very difficult to run, where are the perks that take a brain to use?
Comments
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Same can apply to perks as well. Killer perks are held to a standard that survivor perks just aren't. Most killer perks have a cost, requirement, cooldown, limitation, etc or multiple at once. None of those standards apply to most the meta survivor perks.
Like look at all the second chance survivor perks like DS, BT or Unbreakable for example. All game swinging effects with no cost or downside, no requirement, zero skill needed, etc etc. You just equip them and do everything just as normally as you always would, no change.
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For dbd to be a functioning game you need an imbalance of the playerbase. Ideally you want 4 survivors for every 1 killer so obviously this means you need to make the game more appealing to be a survivor.
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It's not that all killers need to be high skill, it's just that they should be REALITVE TO THEIR EFFECT, and Hillbilly had abserd mobility, map pressure and an easy to use instant down. He was TOO EASY to pick up and play for what he had.
Trapper? Yeah, he's more of a knowledge based killer as in where you place your traps and what-not, but he's easy to play mechanically and those who are fantastic with him, such as Otz, are very skilled mentally for this game but it isn't required.
Survivors also have zero handholding. Devs even say that just deleting them is perfectly OK, and they have to work out everything themselves while also managing 3 other people. Killers as a whole can care more about the 1v1 than the 4v1 and still do really well, where as survivors can't.
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He definitely wasn't easy vs good survivors.
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If you as the killer view the game as a 1v1 youve already lost
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I agree and bring this up everytime people ######### about Freddy. Like really? We cant have 1 killer thats viable and doesnt require a masters degree to be good with? F that
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They make balance changes based on the fresh players with 5 hrs playtime in Solo Q hiding in bushes and being afraid to touch gens.
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it takes a lot of hours to master survivor, you probably think youre good but arent.
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And your point is?? I'm rank 1 both sides I play 50/50 and the if I'm having a frustrating day and want to relax guess what? Yep that's it I play on ez mode I just play survivor. Killer has to manage 4 survivors, 7 gens 5 totems + all your items ( cough cough keys ) all your second chance perks who has dh, sb, bl, bt, ds, ECT what hook state ppl are on. gen progress come on the only person that would say something so stupid as that is an entitled survivor main. This coming from just a player I am not biased I don't main either side but I do agree one side requires a brain and one side u just got to hit skill checks and not be a complete moron
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This is something that I have been questioning for a long time. The only thing I can come up with is that BHVR themselves need to get a taste of it themselves. I firmly believe that BHVR doesn't understand the game fully. I'm not saying I do but I really do question why everything about killer has repercussions but almost nothing about survivor has little to no repercussions!
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Being a good survivor requires skill. Being a bad survivor doesn't.
Same for killer.
You're using 2016 arguments when the survivors just needed to hold m1 and run from one to another of a million pallets or to an infinite.
News flash: it's not 2016 anymore.
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Killers don't need to be high skill, they just need to camp. Survivors don't need high skill, they just need to be blendette who self cares in the corner while her team does all the work.
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I Kinda agree (especially with the hillbilly nerfs which as a survivor main i think are a load of bull) but it is true that some things are unbalanced eg. no sound spirit
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Empirically speaking Survivor isn't easy.
The proof is simple. As ranks go up so do Survival rates and by a significant margin. Therefor the best Survivors going up against the best Killers do better than the worst Survivors going up against the worst Killers.
I know bad matchmaking exists, but bad matchmaking evens out.
If Survivor was both stronger and easier than Killer then I would expect the Kill rates to be consistently low at all ranks rather than just red ranks.
If Survivor was weaker and easier than Killer then I would expect the Kill rates to go up with rank rather than down (which it does with high tier high skill Killers like Nurse)
Survivors being harder than Killer would make me expect an increase in Survival rates as rank goes up, which there is. This doesn't mean Survivors are weak, far from it, but rather than bad Survivors can't make use of their tools effectively enough to act strong, while bad Killers are still able to capitalize on the mistakes of those bad Survivors.
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That's funny, I play 50/50, and if I want a relaxing match I play Killer. No worries about being out of the game before it even begins. Don't have to worry about a Mori (which are more common than Keys). You know what survivors are bringing into the match from the start. (Four med kits? Time to bring out plague.) No worries about teammates being completely incompeten. You're just relying on yourself. I won't say killer is easy mode, it's not. But you have so much more control over the game.
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I'm not saying that this game is 1v1, but that there are moments that are. Killers like Nurse and Deathslinger are more about these 1v1 moments, as they rely on ending a chase quickly, where as Trapper and Hag are more about map management.
Pig has elements of both.
THAT is what I mean by the 1v1.
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There were nerfs and changes though to get all these perks to where they are. DS use to immediately activate if you were the obsession or wiggled 25%. BT once worked on the person unhooking and being unhooked. Unbreakable can only be used once. It's true that some survivor perks are..... annoying when used in groups but the same can be said about killer perks too. Franklin's demise in general is a really toxic perk because it makes a survivor drop their item and lose about 1/8th of the charges, Insidious is almost only used to camp, and everyone hates NOED. It has to do with perspective though, survivors use DS, Unbreakable and BT to avoid being tunneled or farming a teammate. Killers often use Franklin's to stop large groups of flashlights or keys, insidious can be used in some very creative ways such as to gain tokens for play with your food. NOED is used to help killers keep pressure on survivors at the end of the game and sometimes to help ensure a win. There are two sides to a token and you are mostly looking at the killer side. Have a peek at our side for a change.
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I would appreciate examples of weak killers that were nerfed. If you mean nerfs that weren't necessary I understand, the recent hillbilly nerfs were unreasonable and not needed given he is a properly balanced killer, but most their other nerfs were reasonable and made sense. Some of the perks buffs seem to me a little broken. Franklin's will highlight dropped items in a white aura when within a 30 meter range and after dropped, items disappear after 90 seconds. Lightborn makes it so all flashlights and firecrackers are useless (literally! You are immune to being blinded) and the survivors who try get their aura revealed for 8 seconds. I don't really like the changes to knock out and tinkerer but honestly I can see why they are being changed the way they are. You need to understand that it can be difficult balancing a 4 v 1, especially when they are expected to release something completely new and different every chapter. I'm not saying that's an excuse for everything, especially since this game is so buggy and a lot of perks are either must use or useless which makes gameplay quite dry sometimes. This game isn't perfect but the devs are still getting their bearings with things, they are trying to update every texture in the game, they're trying to make this game cross platform. They have a lot on their plate at the moment and a little understanding of everyone's situation at the moment while we wait for balancing and fixes would be nice. In conclusion, Both survivors and killers need to suck it up for two seconds. the game is unbalanced. The game is so buggy it might as well be a bug. Survivors need..... something. Killers need....... something.
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I play survivor too. I have more hours in killer, but my rank and success ratio is higher with survivor, because it's so damned easy. Pretty much the only times I don't escape are when my team doesn't do gens, I get moried right away, or if matchmaking puts me with rank 15s.
That's with me running plunderers instinct, balanced, kindred, and prove thyself. I can only imagine my escape rate if I ran meta perks.
Franklin's is a joke. It needs to damage the item by 20%. As it stands, the loss is nothing.
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I'm going to be honest, even with mostly playing survivor i think most if not all of what you said is crap to put it bluntly. Hillbilly DOES require skill or else he will just be bullied for 5 gens or he will turn into an M1 killer. Trapper requires little to no skill which is why he is the game's cover art. Trapper puts traps at pallets, windows, and grass. THE END. The only thing i agree with is the fact that survivors are pretty much on their own. Lower ranks tend to be easier aside from the camping and higher ranks are harder because people know what their doing.
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Man, it's been 4 years, if the devs haven't found their bearings, they need to bring in people that know what they're doing.
If the game has so many problems, it would make sense to fix those problems and not add on projects that literally no one asked for. Had they said "hey, this mid chapter, we are focusing entirely on bug fixes, we will not be making any other changes", not one single person would be upset by that.
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Both sides have perks with cooldowns and all that. While you have killer perks like surge that are cooldown, you also have survivor perks like Sprint burst with similar cooldowns. You brought up DS, which is a 1 time use perk thats activated under certain conditions, but you could say the same of perks like Haunted Ground. You have perks which just give a flat bonus, like botany knowledge or sloppy butcher. You also have perks that work off a token system like STBFL or autodidact.
This isnt saying that every perk is balanced or anything, just that both sides have perks with every kind of activation method/downside.
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It's almost like killers have abilities that already help them in the game and survivors don't
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I never said that he requires zero skill, but that he requires LITTLE skill. There is a difference. He also requires way less skill than other top-tier killers to pick up, that's for sure.
There is also a difference between mechanical skill and map knowledge. The skill of Trapper is knowing where to place traps, and in lower ranks that's anywhere.
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Yes, but that has more to do with the killer's lack of pressure in addition to your play style. I had to learn the hard way that even though i like running some perks as killer, i just can't use them because they don't work with the plague or clown's kit. Pressure is everything in dead by daylight and if you're not applying it then your screwed. For example, as Legion with no addons, you can apply decent map pressure with just Thanatophobia and Dying Light. After that you can put some filler perks and you're set, same can go for survivor.
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Yup, i mean they probably do need to, but they won't. It's a cute idea though. But who knows with Behavior, sometimes they get their stuff together and sometimes not. They are at least better than Blizzard.
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Excuse me, you need to be HOOKED and UNHOOKED to activate DS.
Please.....and the only way BT activates if the killer is in the area, now...if you're complaining about BT and DS, and their affecting your game negatively how about you strap on BBQ and GTFOut of the hooked survivor's radius and go patrol some gens.
"no requirement."
Please.......
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Have you ever played killer, like at all?
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They nerfed legion by removing on hit effects from frenzy stabs so you could no longer synergize with Sloppy Butcher, and that was LONG after his rework to gut him into being a garbage fire for a killer.
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Look at my name and ask me that again.
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Survivors have the map, that is their power. Killers have powers to help overcome the map.
I have the unfortunate luck to play on a region that lacks potatoes. I get nothing but streamer quality survivors, so your version of pressure is different than mine. I juggle, I pressure gens, I three gen, makes zero difference. Do I lose in 5 minutes, or do I lose in 10?
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Do you play hillbilly or trapper at all?
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The map isn't their power LOL their power comes from their perks otherwise they're helpless against good killers. Killers are inherently faster than survivors and that isn't tied to their power.
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When was the last time they got anything right? Bhvr isn't even in the same league as blizzard. Blizzard has been going downhill since Activision, but they've made some of the best games of all time.
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Yeah it is. There's a reason the tiles and pallets are spaced perfectly so a killer can't catch up after a hit or pallet break. There's a reason the survivor collision box is smaller, so they can loop. Time is the killers enemy and the map gives survivors an abundance of it.
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Have you played overwatch?! They were risking everything on overwatch league which no one watched and they even balanced the game around it which caused mass disruption in the games meta. They have a DPS pool which is bigger than the tank and support pools combined and have the audacity to wave echo in front of us, make her a DPS, say she was SUPPOSE to be a support and then 10 seconds later give Brigitte the nerfs and a buff equivalent to chopping someones arm off and giving them a band aid. But yes, their games are so good.
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And literally, the EXACT same thing could be said about
- NOED, you do nothing. Free insta-downs by just eating a burrito from your desk.
- BBQ, you said it yourself "You just equip them and just do everything as normally as you always would, no change.
- Sloppy Butche, same as above, just strap it on and play normally.
- Dying Light, same as above, strap it on and play normally.
- Infectious Fright, no cooldown, great slugging potential.
- Nurse's Calling? Same exact thing, just strap it on and play normally for Aura Reading buffs.
- Pop? Same, strap it on and play normally.
- Coulrophobia? Same exact thing, strap it on and play normally.
You literally said, survivor perks have no way to activate, they're just automatically activated and you named 2.
I named you a crap ton that do the same, exact thing. Just strap them on, and play normally for added buffs.
I'm not defending survivors, I'm a killer main, but your post stenches of killer bias, fake, false sense of oppression.
Calm down.
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He really isn't a bad killer. He can be quite fun to play against and applies good pressure on the map to stop survivors from doing gens.
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Trapper? I did heaps for the Archives for him, but some of the later killer challenges are an absolute pain. Such as sacrifice 4 people in the basement.
Hillbilly? Not heaps, but enough to know what I'm talking about. Tried him out to see what all they hype was over, got destroyed in my first game as him then dominated almost every single other match. One thing to consider as well is that I am actually a console player, and steering with Hillbilly is way easier with thumbsticks, as I only have to move the camera to the side to steer. No flicks, but considering I'd dropped killer rank to focus on Survivor Archives a few resets before starting him.
Lately, I've gone back to my core three of Pig, Doctor and Legion with some Executioner on the side. I find them fun and I can be effective with them, or just get heaps of bloodpoints.
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Objectively speaking he's one of the worst. No map pressure, no chase pressure that's effective because you're stunned for 4 seconds if the power de-activates, you could use your power to traverse the map but then you miss out on being able to hit survivors with it.
He's punished for doing well and the only thing he can really do is waste time. He just doesn't perform.
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Ok, now that makes more sense.... I also play on console. I tried Hillbilly ONCE on PC and it was actually really annoying to steer. But even on console though as long as the survivors aren't potatoes they can do well against newer Hillbillys. The thing is, the skill gap on PC is a lot larger than it is on console due to the fact they have more control and have been playing longer.
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Mkay, I equip BBQ and no one pops up on it after I hook someone. What should I do now? I'm not gonna wander farther than 40 meters away because without seeing any auras I have no evidence or reason to go that far from the hook. So I manuver through the area, find someone, down them fairly quick with my billy chainsaw, go back to the hook, the dude gets unhooked infront of me, so instead of going for them I down the guy who saved.
Quick and easy hook, the other guy gets away without being tunneled. I go back to the guy I slugged, hook him. Go back to the other hook, dude gets rescued in my face again, so I down the rescuer. Pick them up, and WOW I get DSed because its the guy who got off the hook 30 seconds ago, even though I got 2 hooks in the time they got unhooked.
Ok lets rewind, I don't go after the guy who clearly has DS so I just quickly down the guy getting unhooked in front of my face, NOPE Borrowed time.
See the issue here? Whatever play I make it is the wrong one because of perks. That is why people don't like DS and Borrowed being comboed together. It just boils down to the survivors telling you "whatever you do in this situation will be the incorrect play"
Now lets rewind again because I can already hear you typing "just slug them". Ok I slug the guy going for the unhook, then chase after the unhooked person and wait out borrowed time, assuming I do it corrected I get them downed, but I have to go slug them because of their probable DS. So I return back to the 2nd hooked person as roughly around this time they should be getting unhooked.
But by the time I get there. The first guy I slugged gets back up with Unbreakable, truly being that in that situation there is no correct play to do. No matter what the survivors are gonna get back in the game even after playing as terribly has I have described them in this situation.
At that point all the skillful plays and decisions I make won't matter because the survivors always have an answer for it, that I physically can not counter.
That is why anyone who runs DS, Dead hard, Unbreakable, and borrowed time all at the same time, they emit very very small pp energy.
As far as rating the perks on their small pp energy id say
Dead hard the least, borrowed next.
But the combo of DS and unbreakable is maximum small pp. The perks by them selves are pretty ok, combo-ed. Nope that is just "I need all the second chances I can get so the killer physically is incapable of countering me going down".
The best part is way after that, I still 4k because the survivors are that bad, then in end game chat they call me trash. Even when I run perks like franklins and haunted grounds.
TL:DR. The perks alone are pretty ok, but comboing all of the crutches together is when stuff gets really frustrating for killer.
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Never played overwatch. I'm older than most gamers, old enough to have bought Warcraft 2 brand new. Warcraft, Diablo, and starcraft were all masterpieces. Diablo 2 is easily top 10 pc games of all time.
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He applies pressure through injuring survivors which can add up and either they heal and waste some time, or they do gens and are 1 hit. Honestly, if i had him i would play him because he seems really fun and I like to see how different teams handle him.
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I've heard those games are good, but if you play overwatch........ You will easily appreciate DBD's balancing and how they actually find a solution instead of slapping on some lazy fix which causes more problems than actually fixes things (Unless we're talking about the Hillbilly nerf which just wasn't needed at all)
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Survivors are skill based.
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A game balanced by clowns.
For example, killer perks have all sorts of stupid things attached to them (even the ######### perks) to 'trade off' or balance them out, on top of having them sometimes having cooldowns or being able to get taken away by the survivors or swf.
A great recent example is how the Trail of Torment perk works. 1 it gives away information to the survivors that the killer has used the perk, for a perk that's supposed to be make the survivors oblivious to the killers heartbeat. while also 2 having a long cooldown. in other cases A perk like ruin can get taken away immediately before it even has any uses.
meanwhile a fair and balance example is pop, its a perk that rewards killers for playing well and doing their objectives. sloppy and nurses, you have to be very generous with your this and spread pressure on multiple survivors to get any use out of it, you want them you have to work for it. and i think those are the best and healthiest kinds of perks. yet you stil have people trying to get perks that are good and require work like this nerfed even more.
Meanwhile survivors get broken ######### like exhaustion perks, there's ######### like ooo that can ghost the killer to the rest of the team. ds and being able to force it on the killer by hopping in a lockers, its a guaranteed escaped pretty much if you have it on you after the gates are powered, bt among other things that greatly swing the matches harder than any killer perk than say noed (even then it means a killer has to play the match with only 3 perks and they have already lost by the time it activates) like unbreakble. all without requiring any skill, without any risk at all. Having no proper trade off how swingy these perks are for them.
Not only that but every survivor can bring these no skill swing perks into the match, so that's like 16 different swing perks that can be used up in an 6-12 minute match. even for a long match that's an average of the second chance perks potentially ######### up the killer once every minute.
When the obsession mechanic first came into play, it was much more clear that using certain perks were very powerful but there was a risk to them and if you weren't the obsession it would work a bit differently for you and it might not be as strong.
I tend to play solo and I almost never bring these perks with me because they are so broken and survivors are powerful enough without them, the only exception would be running ds occasionally when i get days where i'm getting matched with lower skill killers who would tunnel because they don't know any better. but I won't be doing that bs locker trick if i don't have to.
Don't get me wrong I think the game is much healthier now then it was for the first two years where things just stagnated, we've slowly been chipping away at some of the bullshit that some players are able to get away with and some killers have been shifted around a lot, and we get a decent map update. But we've still got a long way to go when it comes swing perks on the survivor side.
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Thats a bit to an extreme but killer is by far the harder role and it is mounted by all sort of factors from risk reward, looping, time management, memory, knowing basic map layouts to know what to expect, and knowing survivor perks whats common things to look out for to know or predict perks. While survivor is mostly know the killer power and gen go brrr. Overall killer is the harder role
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Having played only for 2months now and having both killer and survivor in high ranks playing against red ranks constantly:
Killers need a general buff. Playing survivors is so much easier. It goes against the whole game's philosophy. Survivors should be scared of a killer not taunt him. Something like increasing all killers movement speed slightly should be enough.
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He's right, most survivor meta perks are baindead and stupidly easy to use compared to killer perks. Too many second chances
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