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Why so butthurt about spirit?
All the hate towards spirit really gets old. People complain about her having no counter play but that's just a popular myth. I have no trouble playing against your average spirit. Most likely the ones that complain the most are just bad players or are solo queuing and get bad teams. At the end of the day she's just an M1 killer with a ability not unlike any other killer. Is she strong? Sure. A lot of killers are. I think playing as optimally as possible on both sides that oni, billy, nurse and maybe hag and freddy are all stronger killers. People act like every spirit is god tier but i've seen some pretty mediocre ones.
Please stop blaming the spirit for your shortcomings. If she's a menace to you run iron will, it helps trust me. I cannot fathom what a nerf to her would even look like. If what the community wants gets done she would be useless. I think she's very fun to play and challenging to play against, but that's ok. I don't want to be spoon fed escapes i'd rather earn them.
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Well first i agree with u i think all the hate is mostly cuz its popular to hate on her and now that she actually deserves it as she is not the only strong killer. Ppl say she is braindead but bullying a baby Spirit is almost as bad as bullying a baby Nurse. I find Spirit fun and interesting to verse as its not just your casual m1 wraith around a loop. Her only counter really is iron will but the problem is that Stridor counters the counter and u are left with nothing. Idk how they can change that but theres nothing more annoying than going against a good Spirit thats also using Stridor to make it even easier on them. I don't think she needs any nerfs to her base kit but idk how they can fix the Stridor countering her counter. (Obviously playing immersed is also a counter but most of the time all u can do is hope that iron will confuses her and if not u are prob dead unless she is pretty bad at tracking.)
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Because she doesn't really have counter play. Yes, there are tricks you can try. But good Spirits don't fall for them. I'm not saying she's OP or needs nerfs. But she's not fun to play against. Especially since so many Spirit players tend to play scummy. Like you are already playing one of the strongest killers in the game. You need to tunnel too?
In short it feels like a guessing game with her. One where you have bad odds of picking the right answer.
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Because there's no way to tell if she's phasing or not. Its just a terrible design decision. Imagine if Demo just shredded instantly with no animation or wind up. There's just now way to tell what they're doing and you end up dying for a lack of information that you legitimately cant have.
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I think people want to change her mainly because it’s not an interactive chase when playing against her, like you are mostly trying to mind game the air when you think she’s phasing.
Also because almost every spirit runs stridor so it makes the only counter to her useless.
I personally don’t really have a problem with her because I always get bad spirits but I can understand why other people think she’s unfair/unfun to play against.
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Run Iron Will? Great, I can get by that.
So... what do we do when she runs stridor? Run two iron wills?
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Lol then run no mither and iron will 4head .
no really it really sucks to play against a spirit with stridor when you have iron will
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You know when Nurse is Porting. Cool.
You know when Trapper is placing traps. Cool.
You know when Ghostface is in stealth, you can still hear him swoosh around.
You can SEE Wraith's shimmer and you can hear his bing bong.
You can hear Billy Rev.
Huntress grunts when she readies her hatchet and she throws it.
Clown readies his bottles.
Demo opens his mouth.
Every single killer has a method to KNOW when they're using their power.
Why is Spirit any different? Standing Still shouldn't be a free hit, or a mindgame it isn't a mind game.
And I'm a PS4 Spirit Main.
She's so easy to 4k and to get to Rank 1 with.
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The problem with Spirit is not her having no counter play. She is just uninterractive. The thing with Spirit is that she kills people and not chases them. This is why she gets so much hatred from survivors (which i agree with as a Spirit main).
I like Spirit. A lot. I've started playing her since her release. But the more i played her, the more i felt bad for survivors everytime i downed them on the other side of the dropped pallet while not providing ANY info about my actions. Surely, her design is not the best, but atleast she got changed not so long ago and Spirit is not as dumb as she used to be.
Although i would like to see some changes for her, so she remains strong and gives survivors some information about her actions. I liked Otz' idea on Spirit; Make it so everytime she starts phasing, you can see her glimpses just like with the old Freddy when he tried to put you asleep. This will also make passive-phasing addons more useful and will add some mindgames to the Spirit instead of 'oh, i'll stand on the other side of the pallet and wait untill you vault into me'. That's it.
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Base Spirit is fine. Spirit with no Stridor is fine. Spirit with Stridor and good add ons is busted, and people complain about that for good reason.
I actually don’t mind most Spirits, I know how to keep a chase going against 90% of them since I also play her, but the ultra sweats with ebony moris and NOED and mother daughter ring are kind of ridiculous. If you need all of that on Spirit you’re just bad, sorry.
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They could make it so that Stridor does not work while Spirit is phasing.
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I suppose I'm the only who can see her crystals glow and hear her footsteps...got it. Oh and yeah stridor i forgot...that old find perk..not like there is nurse's calling, bbq n chili, whispers, bitter murmur, rancor. My bad. You're all right she's busted.
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If you're far away, you hear the phasing noise.
If you're close, you don't hear anything at all.
If you see her, she shimmers white which is hard to miss.
If she's phasing, you can still hear her footsteps and bushes move.
There are a lot of ways to tell that she is phasing, a lot of people just don't pay attention.
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I hope you know that the issues with footsteps aren't exclusive to survivors, right? They stop killer footsteps too, at least from my own experience.
The shards glow on about 3 skins (they don't on her schoolgirl outfit, for example) and if you're close enough to see that then you're dead no matter what you do.
Grass doesn't move from Spirit.
> not like there is nurse's calling, bbq n chili, whispers, bitter murmur, rancor.
All of these but one reveal auras and rancor only works when a gen is done. Stridor removes the one reliable counter the survivor has- iron will- and means if you're injured you die. She can't see auras whilst phasing. She can hear things.
Making audio omni-directional would satisfy me more than enough, or adding a tell for when she's phasing that actually works across all her skins.
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As far as I know, the shimmer is a graphical bug. As well as that, it doesn't work on some Spirit cosmetics. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the case.
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You're a genius!
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Honestly I've been tempted to use No mither before, just because I was so sick and tired of stridor spirits. Thankfully I was seeing more huntresses, billies, and legions before I took a break.
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I believe that the part of it not working on some cosmetics is a bug, but i have seen it on multiple skins. It's a designed feature to show when she is phasing, and it helps a lot when playing a Spirit.
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You guys don't get to be completely invincible. However, you could run no mither, and iron will. But you have to take the good with the bad.
As for people saying there's no counter play... y'all just don't understand how spirit works because you have probably never spent time playing her long enough to know how to effectively play her. If you did, you wouldn't see her as a problem.
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I mained spirit for 2 months, @BigBrainMegMain is a spirit main on PS4, and @Fen is also a spirit main but I guess we just don't play enough spirit.
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Holy cow that is a really old screenshot; you can see the 'switch to survivor' button on the side bar. Do you have a current screenshot that you can post? Preferably one that shows you wearing the same outfit, same level, and a dedication that's higher than the level in the screenshot? Rank doesn't matter.
Also, you know when the spirit is phasing. When she is standing still. Oh, she's faking it? Start walking away, count to 3, now you can bet your arse she's phasing.
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Most of the time you are at a pallet or window, spirits try mindgaming it to get you. That's when seeing the shards glow and her skin shimmer is useful. I can't remember the last time a spirit has successfully mindgamed me unless I mess up. I'm sorry but the "if you're that close it means you're dead" appears to be a sad way of saying "I give up".
I could gave sworn I see Grass move from her as well, but I could be wrong. I remember a few chases where I saw the grass move behind me so I walked to the left and lost her.
Fixing that bug and making it so she interacts with the environment more while phasing are the only necessary changes for her
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Being a spirit main doesn't mean you are awarded insight for free. If you play her long enough you should understand how mind games work with her and how to counter them. There are plenty of moments where you can reliably assume she's phasing, other moments you can rely that she might not be.
Also, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but a survivor can fake vault just the same as the spirit can fake phasing. "It's all just a guessing game, there's no indication whether the survivor is going to vault, or fake vault. They both run at the pallet in the same way."
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The difference is that you can stand still and watch what a survivor will do, while the survivor has NO idea whether or not you're phasing. I stand by the fact that Spirit needs to give some sort of information other than an occasional shimmer (or clicking at the husk over and over so you know whether or not she's phasing).
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If a spirit pays attention they can see the dust particules rise from a vault of a pallet or window, with or without quick and quiet.
In terms of your other point, I agree. But being a spirit main (ie playing predominantly spirit) for 2 months (or in the case of MegMain or Fen probably longer) is enough time to learn her counters and how to deal with them.
It's why I don't have an issue facing freddy or doctor; I play them and so I know their counters. With doctor hide in a locker, and with freddy just be awake.
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Shes's hated because of the lack of information she gives back to survivor's! As a Spirit main I enjoy playing her because I don't have to deal with loop after loop! I don't have a problem with looping, I have a problem with majority of the killer roaster being weak to looping and having to resort to the same tactics! Spirit negates that
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WHAT?! You do NOT see bushes move.
And in Corn Maps you do NOT see corn move.
WHAT?!
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Oh, I got to Rank 1 with her in 2 days.
I don't play enough of her NOW because I'm religiously on PC. But whenever I wanna flex my Rank, yeah....
Spirit with either Brooch and Slippers or Mother Daughter Ring with Yakoyuke Amulet and gg.
4ks, 3ks, double pip for 4 hours straight and I'm Red Ranks already.
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I'm religiously on PC now. I dropped PS4 like...months ago.
Obviously I still have my account but....like....why? PC is so much better.
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No, no, doesn't count. You heard the lad, "Being a spirit main doesn't mean you are awarded insight for free." Clearly you just gotta play more spirit and it's definitely not because there's a glaring flaw in her power the devs didn't fix when they changed her 🤷
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I'm not talking about survivor vaulting from the perspective of spirit, I'm saying from any killer's perspective... or basically just 'baiting'. My argument is that these two circumstances are the same, they just look different. The solutions to both problems are the same, they just look different. Knowing what gives value to the baiting in either of those circumstances, from both perspectives can tell one how to predict baiting before it happens. If there are problems even after 'figuring it out', then the problem hasn't been fully realized. It's at this point most people turn and point the finger elsewhere.
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lol imagine trying to defend one of the most broken unchanged killers.
I can't believe he said that.
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It's silly to assume that anyone is entitled to information just because they participate. Sometimes problem solving requires more work than we expect, and we come to conclusions about things prematurely.
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So you mean to say that playing a killer repeatedly over and over will mean that you won't get any information?
Also, if its silly to assume anyone is entitled to information for participating, why does spirit not have omni-directional audio?
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Ill say it a million times, SHE DOES NOT NEED STRIDOR IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! its a total waste of a perk slot. confusing as hell when theyre not running iron will and id rather run a better perk anyways. you shouldnt be phasing for the whole bar anyways you should be phasing in short bursts. So if they are running iron will, youll be able to phase in a couple of seconds.
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There's a big difference between getting any information, and getting the right information. Sure, you're going to get information from playing her, but it doesn't mean that you're going to get the right information unless you're looking for it. When playing spirit, you're fully capable of paying attention to when you are phasing and when you're not, especially during fakes. Like when both survivor and spirit are on either side of a pallet, the point is to bamboozle the survivor into making a mistake. Newb spirits will phase immediately, vets will stand there to see what you do and after some time start phasing, especially if the survivor is moving away. If the spirit is still standing still and you've started moving away, you should know that she is now phasing and can't see you. It wouldn't make sense for her to sit there and watch you walk away.
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This is getting out of hand. I started this thread to have a reasonable discussion. Seems to me that this is just more of the same. People don't want accountability. Play better, win more. She has play arounds like any other killer. Maybe the devs intended for her to give less information. Stop blaming the killer for your shortcomings. If you were better you wouldn't mind playing against her so much. People who hate on her clearly cannot handle her, but that's fine. It's a PvP game there will never be true balance. One spirit player to the next could mean the difference between a 4k and a 4 out. The players are accountable for their results.
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Believe me, i've played Spirit long enough so i can tell you that there is NO mindgames with her whatsoever. Everytime you play against the Spirit you're playing into the game called 'well i hope that this guy does not have some good headphones'.
There is no problem with Spirit being strong. The problem with her is that she does not give survivors any kind of information about her actions. She does not chase survivors, she kills them without any interraction.
That was fun for a couple of weeks when DLC with Spirit dropped, and then survivors eventually started killing themselves on hook everytime i played Spirit. So i guess that tells something. She does not move bushes and you hardly can hear her footsteps while in chase thanks to chase music being loud. Relying on a bug with glasses on Spirit's body is not the right way to counter her. She is not problematic as she used to be, but Spirit still needs some changes.
And this is coming from a Spirit main who barely plays survivor.
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She has counter play (to an extent) but she's boring to play against and unfun to play against. Would rather just die first hook and requeue than play against Spirit. Could care less if she's underpowered she's just boring. I miss when Nurse was the top killer she was fun to play against. Nurse was actually engaging to play against and you felt good for outplaying her. Spirit doesn't have any of that.
Name any killer in this game I'd rather play against that than any version of Spirit in this game. Give me the OG Nurse
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correct me if I'm wrong, you started this thread to ask people why they disliked facing the Spirit. I gave my reasons for disliking facing the spirit. people said these reasons were incorrect because of x, y, or z, and so i'm defending my reasoning.
"play better, win more"/"If you were better you wouldn't mind playing against her so much." I dislike facing the spirit because I find her to be cheap (rich coming from me when I main freddy, I know) and that she takes a lot less time, effort, and skill to play well with and reach rank 1 with. I don't find matches as her fun, either playing her or facing her, hence why I stopped maining her after 2 months. I can still play her and get kills at rank 1 despite playing her for a game when someone in chat wants me to play her. imo that means there's something wrong there, but whatever.
i never said i died often to spirit- it's quite the opposite actually. usually i can escape frequently, like i can escape vs a killer who uses noed, or whatever else i dislike. iron will has become a staple in most of my builds, right next to detective's hunch. however, that doesn't change how much fun she is for me to face or to play, which is the main reason i dislike her, like i dislike old legion and love huntress, nurse, and billy. you feel like those three killers outplayed you and it was a true test of mindgames and skill. as spirit, its like a "oh, i guessed wrong". its not even a 50/50 guess, like a coinflip, because its skewed so far in their favour its like trying to do a backflip from standing, flipping the coin whilst doing so, landing it 1nm into your pinky finger on your right hand, on its side, with the face of the queen facing the moon as it passes behind the sun in an unanticipated solar eclipse.
i admit this game has a reasonable amount of luck involved, but if i fancied gambling with those odds id play in a casino.
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Couldn't agree more.
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Yep... spirit main here, too. I would argue that the problem lies in survivors being too dependent on the information that they're normally given. It's pretty similar to how survivors behave when the killer has undetectable or when their red stain is gone. Survivors don't know what to do because they crutch on that information.
Survivors do have a way to get information on what she's doing with spine chill, as the icon will go dim momentarily while phasing if she is standing directly across from you. You could also run perpendicular to the direction she's facing to make the icon go dark.
You guys have simply decided that she's broken and there's no way to counter her, and that's final. Yet, I've described a couple of ways you can know that she is phasing. I've actually said one of them multiple times in this same thread, but no one wants to tell me what's flawed about that approach.
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People are making their arguments. Nothing has been unreasonable. Spirit will likely always be a controversial killer. Her counters are crap shoots at best. That is why people don't like her. It's not a matter of refusing to get better. You can't get better at guessing what they might do with no information.
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That's fair i did want to know why people hate spirit, i just wanted original takes. The whole it's a 50/50 guess thing(more largely the perceived lack of info) is old and played out. You have same information as you would running a jungle gym against a killer who's undetectable. How do you know where ghosty or pig is gonna pop up around a jungle gym you can see through? You don't, you guess based on prior experience and subtle cues. How do you know when a huntress or a deathslinger will shot their shot? You don't, you guess. When a nurse blinks through walls to hit you...thats not a lot of time to see her coming if you're up against the wall so how do you avoid it? You guess. This is what we refer to in the biz as a mindgame, you try to out think your opponent..based on a handful of factors. As fellow killer main has said there are certain maneuvers that do work against spirit.
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I honestly don't know how relying on the information as a survivor is a bad thing. The entire roster of killers that we have atm is providing some info when they use their power, but Spirit is different. I love Rin with all my heart, but this is just.. Strange, to say the least.
I agree with you on Spine Chill part. Spine Chill in general is a pretty good perk, but i dislike the fact that you have to use certain perks to counter Spirit.
And i don't think that Spirit is broken. I think that she is uninterractive, that's it. Maybe she was broken before her addons and collision during phase adjustments, but i don't care about that since i did not use any of this stuff. The nerf changed nothing for me, too. But.. Idk. I just want Spirit to be more interractive, that's all.
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Well sure if that is your take on it that's fine. I just don't agree with the common narrative thats all. Maybe the devs should take out undetectable and oblivious statuses. They rob survivors of info as well.
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I mean, it's no secret there is little counter-play to her.
Even with the smallest of cues (like footsteps and grass moving) it is often too late by the time she comes out of her phase.
Standing in one position to trick a survivor doesn't really take any skill, it takes a survivor simply guessing where you might be and you rely on their ability to guess.
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That's fair to want that, I can't fault you for wanting it to be more interactive. I mean, if they did make her more interactive, they would probably be forced to give her 115% because her power would become really weak.
I honestly don't believe her power is very strong, it's just that it requires more effort to counter than most killers do. Most killer powers sort of function like a cap gun to start a race... they give these clear indications that signal you to perform some familiar behavior. I think the spirit is more nuanced than that, which is what drew me to her.
Beyond spine chill, I believe you can know when shes phasing by walking away from her. As soon as you start to walk away, shes going to start phasing... it doesn't make sense to let survivors just walk away. So, start walking away, assume she will phase soon, then randomize your behavior however you like. I guess the indication to know she is phasing is when you start to move away from her position when she's standing still.
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"You have same information as you would running a jungle gym against a killer who's undetectable. How do you know where ghosty or pig is gonna pop up around a jungle gym you can see through"
Because they provide visual and audio queues when using their power. The audio que? Their lack of heartbeat, and ghostie boi has some swooshing sound too. Their visual que? Pig is crouched and ghostface has no stain. Spirit has none of the ques except 'she's standing still'. This is my point, she has no reliable tell. Notice my use of reliable because shards aren't, the hair bug is a bug and doesn't exist 95% of the time, and I have yet to see a glow on any of her skins that aren't just the shards.
"How do you know when a huntress or a deathslinger will shot their shot? You don't, you guess."
I'll give you deathslinger, but huntress grunts and pulls up a hatchet, your visual and auditory que. When will she release it? That's the mindgame part- you know she's using her power, now comes the question of when will it release. Spirit? You don't know the first bit, and so the naturally following second bit also doesn't exist.
"When a nurse blinks through walls to hit you...thats not a lot of time to see her coming if you're up against the wall so how do you avoid it?"
You can see she's charging up and holding a blink, unless she does a short range one in which case you'd be hit in 99% of all other scenarios anyway when a killer is that close. You can hear her wheeze when it's fully charged, and begin to double back when you expect her to blink, or double back then double back on the double back to make her waste that fully charged, 20m long blink and either force her into fatigue, giving you a further 12m of distance or force her to use her 12m blink to catch up with you.
My point here is, every single killer has a reliable tell as to when they're using their power, except spirit. This game is all about information in a chase- as killer, you withold it to make a survivor guess, and as survivor you need to try and force them to tell you as much as possible. With Spirit, there's no certain way to make this happen, as there is to all other killers, which is why I have such a massive issue with her. Again, if I wanted to gamble with odds instead of skill I'd go black Blackjack.
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i just hate the fact its all i see, all i ever see on UK server is spirit and ghost face yet i hardly see them on US servers... i dont mind going against them but f me id be nice to see the other killers get played :/
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Distance is bad. Her reliable tell is that a few seconds after you start move away from her, she is going to phase after you. Most killers will watch where you're heading for a few moments, but then they will phase assuming they know where you're going to be. Most survivors are exactly where they're expected to be. I don't understand why survivors need a cue to respond to.
I'm starting to think that the bigger issue is with survivors not knowing how fast she's moving while she's phasing, rather than the standing still mind games.
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