DEVS NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE PROBLEMS
The Devs need a productive way to take the feedback of the community and to give us updates on where that feedback is.
I suggest that they do a once a week AMA discussing just the most popular topic from the Feedback and Suggestions section of the forum.
If anyone else has any suggestions of ways the Devs could be more active in the community and with dealing with problems then please suggest away. I would love to hear from you :)
Edit: I realise my original topic heading was antagonistic so I have changed it. I have left the original text below.
I posted a topic a few days back asking if anyone had ever seen any response from the devs to feedback and suggestions.
Within an hour of posting the topic two devs showed up to post sarcastic replies.
I pointed out that I had posted that topic to bait some Devs into responding. They took the bait and responded.
This contradicts the excuse that they are too busy with other things to respond to feedback or suggestions.
Yes, they are very busy but not too busy to post sarcastic, snarky comments back to their player base.
Now the Topic has been deleted. I think maybe I touched a nerve regarding the engagement levels of the Devs in the community.
Poor show lads. Don't agree... Censor it!
Comments
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Maybe it was due to you acting like a big spoiled baby and spouting rubbish. The Devs comment on posts daily
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Devs don't censor posts, otherwise half the forum would be deleted. Majority of posts are cristising something about the game (especially with the new Billy announcement). The only time I've seen posts get closed or deleted are when it all devolves into toxic nonsense, which fair play shut it down.
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yeah they responded sarcastically because it was a stupid claim and they have a sense of humor. a good thing to have when you have to deal with hundreds or thousands of people a day.
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First if you admitted to using the post as "bait" then that explains why it got taken down.
Secondly simply because a Dev(s) commented on your post does not mean "they are not busy". They could have just happened to have seen it while they were on. While I did not see the original post IF what you said is true, that their responses were "sarcastic" in nature and not constructive, then I would say it was highly unprofessional for them to have done so. Provided the original topic of the post was a legitimate question and not sarcastic itself. This is of course all speculation as I've no post/comments to read myself.
The community in this game is toxic AF and I'm sure many Devs (who are all human too) have bad days and must get tired of seeing all the negativity day in/day out. So I won't fault them too hard for the occasional slip up on the forums. While I do believe there are many legitimate complaints to be had in regards to DBD and how things are handled, far too many people make things into personal attacks or nonconstructive "bait" posts that serve no purpose to the forums but to push this toxicity further.
Ideally EVERYONE would take a step back and try to find a middle ground (this includes Devs) in resolving DBD together, without the needless bias/attacks/name calling, etc, etc.
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Probably cuz you were acting like a child in it maybe???
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Dude I totally agree with you. I get that they are only human, and everyone has bad days. The real issue though is that I was pointing out something that is a real problem. The Devs only comment or reply to posts they have made, news and updates.
I asked someone if they could find a Dev comment in the feedback section at all. The nearest one they could find was from a month prior.
I then suggested that they take one topic a week from the feedback and suggestions section of the forum. Maybe the one that has had the most views or replies.
Now I did get a lot of what you are seeing above, people coming on here just to tell me that I must be stupid or a big baby. I am merely trying to figure out a was in which the devs could be slightly more active in the forum community.
I can't speak for everyone but a lot of people I have spoken to did feel the same. Like the Devs only comment on their own posts whilst completely ignoring ligitimate concerns about the state of the game.
The three big ones being SWF balancing, connection issues and the ranking system.
I'm not saying that I want a solution to any of these but an open discussion would be nice.
What we have at the moment though doesn't even come close to good community engagement. As I said before they have the time to make snide comments in response to me calling them out but they don't have time to respond to some genuine questions.
All I asked was that they maybe think about having some kind of 'Once a week' get together to discuss with the community some of the issues that are on their minds. Once a month just to a topic that no one cares about is just not good enough. I don't think I am out of line believing this.
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No you claimed the Devs never respond and someone screen shot Ted showing Devs responding about 3 posts underyours
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I agree completely that BHVR needs to figure out a more transparent way to communicate with the community.
Back in the time tunnel when DBD was really gaining traction I felt BHVR was doing a great job at talking with the community, keeping us updated on plans in the works and bringing up some of the bigger community asked questions. Even if they couldn't always provide an answer you wanted to hear they were at least talking with us.
I can understand with the community having grow much larger at this point we would inevitably see a decrease in the more "personal" feeling discussions, but I am disappointed to see many major issues discussed far less.
If BHVR just came out and said "Hey we see many people concerned about (insert topic) we are looking at it, in fact here are a couple of spitball ideas we were tossing around. we would also like to hear ideas from the community" - Not only would this show that they are actually looking into the topic in question but also make the community feel like they are contributing in some way. Sadly as things currently stand most responses feel more "Corporate / Generic" rather than from an actual human who enjoys playing/making the game.
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As you can clearly see we don't censor topics...we do remove posts that are insulting however, so maybe that's what you are mistaken on with the "censoring".
There's plenty of posts here that disagree with the Developers, and plenty that the Developers do comment on and it's done on their FREE TIME not their work hours! Because their job is not connected with the forums, that's why we have the Community Team.
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You must be hacking because Devs don't respond to comments....
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I'd say sometimes that policy goes a little far 👀👀
But they should honestly just have a new forum role solely for the purpose of responding to feedback and suggestions. I'm sure they're looking at them as much as they can but with so few ever getting commented on we as a community are left in the dark as to what they are and aren't seeing. If we had someone to just say "This is cool, will forward it" or "We're discussing similar stuff in the vein in this idea" etc...
Something would be better than the sporadic responses we get.
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Yikes.
Ok, let me explain a couple of things to you, the blue people you see are Moderators, they are volunteers and not developers, additionally, if Peanits responded to you, he also isn't a developer, he's a community manager, and I suspect the reason he has "Developer" attached to his forum account is because it has higher permissions to do things on the forums than the Community Manager role.
Also, the forums are mostly meant to be a user to user conversation place, not a user to dev conversation place, the reason for this is this community likes to widely speculate and take things completely out of context which is why I assume most devs just read the forums and take in information rather than discuss it, but that's a symptom of the toxic community this game unfortunately has.
You didn't bait anyone, go look at any of the devs accounts and see that they have responded to several people, the issue is mostly people argue here, it's hard to have a conversation when the devs likely know the outcome which is usually some conspiracy theory about the devs hating killers, people rarely post good suggestions and instead post their hot takes and get into arguements over it.
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And that "role" is exactly what the Community Team does, that's their job - Peanits is incredibly active and has the Dev tag for that purpose, as he can speak for the team that he is part of.
Moderators are here on a volunteer basis and also carry back information and feedback as well as myself. We all have our jobs to do here, Developers are here during their free time, and most read without commenting due to time - when you've worked on something all day, it's pretty tiring then to spend your free time doing the same thing.
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I understand that. That's why I'm suggesting a dedicated role for feedback. It eliminates the confusion from the community side while also lessening the workload for everyone else volunteering their time to do said thing? I appreciate that mods give our feedback but that flow could do with some improvements, no?
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That's what I am saying though @coppersly there is a dedicated role for Feedback - that's the Community Teams role. It's completely impossible and unfeasable to answer every single feedback post or every single post on the forum and no company would ever do that, or would be able to do that. Plus a lot of it would be saying the same thing over and over again. There's only so many times we can discuss the same topic and only so many different ways we can say the same thing - we give updates with the Dev Updates, we have a regular Q&A, we're on the forums as much as possible. Having further staff dedicated to answering feedback is impractical.
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I've only been on the forum over a week now and have noticed the same posts rolling on day in day out and it's getting repetitive so can only imagine how bad it's been since being on since '18
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Yeah, but most people don't realize the volume of work that a forum puts on a community team, especially one as vocal as this. So, there will always be people asking for more than the team can give.
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I don't feel it outrageous to ask for more feedback on our feedback. History has shown most of it goes by the wayside. I understand it's another mountain of work. However, I still wish for improvement even if I don't have any better ways of doing it.
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And I understand that. I've been an admin and mod on a couple forums with similar feedback sections.
The issue is it really isn't practical to respond to them all, but I'm sure the community team reads all of them. But you need to remember they have to sort through dozens if not hundreds of posts, a lot being repeat ideas and feedback. If you look, there is a pattern to the posts they respond to for the most part, and that's well thought out and detailed ideas and feedback.
A lot of the posts there are short, lack detailed explanations and really just seem like someone is saying "change this because I don't like it". But as far as communities go, while BHVR is not without fault, they are more active with their community than other companies.
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If you go to the front page of “general discussions” right now you’ll find post after post disagreeing with the devs and their decisions. Some of them are polite disagreement and criticism, and some of them veer off into conspiracy theories, insults and people pretending they’re oppressed victims because they play one role and not the other in a video game.
Most of these threads don’t get deleted. Believe it or not but the devs and mods here are actually pretty forgiving when it comes to how people word their criticism. But they shouldn’t and don’t have to put up with insults or time wasters because people don’t like some decisions they’ve made.
I’m someone who is pretty critical of the devs, I don’t agree with some of the things they do and I’ve voiced those criticisms here. I’ve never been censored though because I’m able to voice my disagreement without talking ######### about people personally or breaking the rules of the forum. Maybe you should remember that the people you’re talking about are human beings with different opinions, not evil overlords, and try to do the same.
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I am not trying to kick up a fuss here for no reason but the truth is that your "Community Team" isn't enough to deal with the volume of feedback that you get.
I think @coppersly made a very good point. The lack of comments or engagement does leave us in the dark on most issues. Your response was to tell him that people are people and they are tired after a days work. Well if that is the case then maybe you should rethink how the forum is managed.
It is not enough to have a "Community Team" whose job is just to make sure people are conversing nicely and that no one is breaking the rules.
We the community need people to read our suggestions and then take action on them.
I have said it once and I will say it a thousand times if I have to.
Once a week the devs should pick a topic that is most discussed in the feedback and suggestions. They should take a week then to discuss that subject. Then once it has been discussed you could have a live or not so live AMA, say every Sunday. This would open up the forum to discussion of just that one particular topic.
The Devs should never feel put on the spot by this as they have had a week to discuss. They should know by that point what they can and cannot say during said AMA.
It wouldn't even need to be held by a Dev on a Sunday. It could be that the "Community Team" is briefed with what has been discussed and one of you guys could answer questions to the best of your abilities.
All I am saying is that there are solutions to this. But at the moment it feels very much like we, the player base, don't matter at all to you guys.
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I agree. My discussion was closed for talking about how the new Billy changes were absolutely unneeded. Ridiculous.
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This is the kind of attitude that leads to nothing ever getting changed.
Instead of having any constructive input you thought you would spend your time slinging insults. That is ok though. It is your right to say what you feel and no one should be able to take that away from you.
I will stand up for your right to say what you like to whomever you like.
I would like to know if you do have anything about the game that you would like to see fixed or changed.
Is there anything at all that bothers you or that you have seen being asked for that you think would be a good addition?
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At no point did I ever point out any particular dev and insult, neither did I insult them as a group.
I would like to think that my criticism of them was articulate and well thought out and devoid of profanity. Yet, it was still taken down after only one day.
Now I cannot say whether every single post in there was polite. Then again, even if there were some bad comments in there, why should my entire post be taken down for it?
I am not trying to veer into conspiracy. I am merely stating that one night my post was up and there was plenty of discussion about the absentee Devs in the forum. The next morning "This page cannot be found"
When I look back through the feedback, on the 4th of July, I had to scroll back an entire month just to find one Dev reply. The reply was asking for suggestions to a problem stated, then after that, nothing. No response to the suggestions made and no Dev comment for the rest of the month.
This shows a lack of interest in the concerns of the community, in my opinion. Which makes me sad because I really love this game. I think it could be even better with a little bit of elbow grease.
One last thing before I talk too much. The devs have been getting the same complaint about SWF for years now. Instead of ever addressing the problem, they have stayed very quiet. They will release new content, with a price tag, but they won't fix years old gripes that the community has been very vocal about. It just goes to show where their priorities lie. Which I don't grudge, they are a business after all. I just think that fixing the game should be a very close second and it just doesn't feel that way.
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Then why havent they removed this?
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Yes, that was my point. The devs were willing to respond with sarcastic comments to my, clearly bait, post but they weren't responding to anything of real value.
The guy who posted those screenshots of Dev responses, I asked him if he had links to the actual posts and they were from months back and from the updates and news section. So, again, thank you for cementing my point. :)
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You really hit the nail on the head in that last paragraph.
If they could even say, "We've heard you. Here's what we might be able to do, what do you think?"
That is all I ask. That's all the community asks. Just a little bit of back and forth.
I didn't join this forum just to insult people. I am here for the same reason a lot of people are here. I love the game and I want to help suggest ways that it could be better.
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I understand I probably have more time to respond than devs.
However, saying that, I take the time to try to respond to all the people who are nice enough to contribute to my topic.
I have read your comment and I must say that you make assumptions that my previous posts have had no merit or coherent suggestions, but rather my hot takes.
I didn't join this forum just to get into arguments with people. I joined because I love the game and would love it if any of my suggestions could help in any way.
I did post that bait post, purely as an experiment. One which worked perfectly.
I had noticed a distinct lack of responses from Devs or Community managers in the "Feedback and Suggestions" section of the forum. I went through post after post looking for some community engagement and was unable to find any.
After discussing with some other people they also voiced their concern at the lack of care from the Devs.
I then posted a topic to try and bait someone into responding.
It only took 20 minutes and I had my first Dev comment. Another 20 minutes after that I had a different Dev comment on my post.
So within an hour 2 separate Devs were able to post on my nonsense topic and yet they were letting real concerns fall by the wayside.
I won't lie, this incensed me. I couldn't believe that the people with DEV tags on their name were willing to come to my topic to post sarcastic, unprofessional replies but were unwilling or unable to respond to genuine problems within the game.
I have suggested it before and i will continue to suggest it, in the hope that it is echoed by others who think it is a good idea: The Devs should pick one topic a week from the feedback and suggestions section of the forum. They should then discuss that topic among themselves over the course of a week. Then on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday night they should have an open discussion with the player base regarding that topic. Like a Reddit AMA but for one particular topic.
The Devs could let the community know what they think about these issues and how important they are in comparison to other issues they face. They could also gather feedback from users, maybe to impact on future decisions.
I know this community can be toxic, trust me, but that doesn't condone them being neglectful of genuine queries.
Last note: The community has been crying out for some SWF balance for years.
The Devs responded in Jan 2020 by nerfing Hex:Ruin and now they have nerfed Billy. That seems like the exact opposite of what is being asked for. How are we supposed to feel as a player base when our concerns are not only ignored but actively worked against.
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I understand the logistics of trying to co-ordinate a feedback system for this forum. It could be an arduous task, however, I feel like it doesn't have to be.
There are systems in place that means that Topics can be tracked to find out how popular they are. The Devs would just have to pick the most popular from that week and discuss it among themselves. Then they could take part in a weekly AMA regarding that one topic.
I don't think this would take any more than a couple of hours of the devs time per week. It would consolidate a lot of these repeated topics into an easy to read AMA transcript.
Then Mods wouldn't have to settle arguments or post in unanswered feedback topics because they would just be able to direct people to the AMA transcripts.
You make it sound like it's mountains and rivers in the way when actually its speed bumps and puddles. This is not an overly difficult thing to implement.
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I got a message that apparently my other topic was removed because it broke the forum rules. They didn't specify which ones but the mods said that was the reason it was taken down.
I am trying my hardest to keep this one up by ensuring that everyone has as nice a conversation as they can without insulting the devs or using a lot of profanity.
I think that is why this one hasn't been removed, to answer your question.
Appreciate you taking the time to comment. :)
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Can't say for sure, but I think they're pointing out how annoying it is when you have people nagging for constant replies to every little thing.
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Agreed, this is my main concern with the current way feedback is handled.
I have another forum suggesting a way that they could better engage with the community. If you could comment on that, that would be great. Mainly because the more comments a post gets the higher up the forum it will be and hopefully, they will take the suggestion and maybe roll with it.
Thank you for taking the time to comment on my topic :)
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I get that, I just wanted to start a discourse with them. Which if you read down I did.
This person has taken my argument to the extreme and argued that it is unfeasible for the Devs to reply to everything. I pointed out that there is a way that the Devs could appease the community whilst also fixing issues with the game that have been complained about for years.
It doesn't take them hiring anyone new or spending loads of money on their forum or game. I was just suggesting that the devs do a sort of AMA type thing, once a week, on just the most popular Topic from the feedback section of the forum.
They can tell the most important by checking forum stats which I imagine they will have, if not I'm sure they could program some. They then just need to discuss among themselves for a week and then let a dev respond to community questions regarding that issue.
Just a thought. Anything is better than the current system for getting feedback to devs.
This would also alleviate the issue of repeated questions and complaints as you could just direct people to the AMA transcripts.
I was never trying to be an asshat about this. I just wanted more awareness and hopefully support in getting something like this put in place.
I love this game, I want to help to make it better. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thank you for taking the time to comment on this topic :)
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Learned a long time ago unless you give money nonstop game companies care very little about the people really only want your cash not you. Don't have any ill will towards anyone but @Peanits isn't nice imo. Make someone who really doesn't add anything to conversations unless they( only saying that because don't know gender identity ) can be condescending as a community manager. Know that I will never be perfect but it seems to me at least it is not about having bad days or reading mean things I just think that is who they are.
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Well done on going into my profile and reading the last few things I've posted. Really diligent work. Maybe you should work for Behavior!
According to this forum that PTB was released 6th July. I made my initial complaint on the 4th before that Topic was removed and a few days later replaced with this one. So PTB is not really an excuse for the lack of engagement.
I didn't ask that DBD respond to specific threads, I just asked that they respond to genuine gripes that the community has been complaining about for years. The lack of response in the feedback section concerns me.
When I say "The Devs pick" I am not actually talking about specific devs taking it in turn to pick out topics. I am suggesting that the Community manager could do that. Then he could take that topic and discuss it at a meeting with the Devs, exactly how you have described it above. Then as a whole "THE DEVS" could discuss it and think about it in their own time. And then a meeting could be held at the end of the working week to gather feedback from them. Then on the Sunday, with a list compiled by the devs themselves or by community moderators working on instructions from the devs, they could deliver an AMA type of thing.
Now I understand that you see problems in this and I am hearing that you have preconceptions that I am some toddler just throwing his dummy out of the pram. Instead I am just trying to spitball ways in which you could appease large groups of the player base who have actively voiced concern over their feelings of being "Ignored". Feeling ignored is perfectly understandable when you consider that these gamers have put money towards making this game what it is. They have supported the game through it's early years and held on for initial issues to be resolved and this has never happened. Instead they hit with new content with a price tag but no news of what they plan to do to remedy problems that have now been there for years.
Instead of just saying that this can't be done, have you ever considered making a suggestion of how this could be dealt with.
Or maybe you just don't see it as being a problem at all. Which is fine because that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, it is the opinion of a lot of other people that this is a problem and I agree with them and want to do something to help fix it.
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Appreciate the feedback. You are not the only person I have read saying this about the community moderators.
It is an issue that players aren't taken seriously and the main concerns never even spoken about.
Is there any way that you can think of that would help to bring these issues to the devs attention? OR anything that you would change about the forum and the way it works in order to make it more transparent from both sides?
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I think it starts with understanding in the end BHVR need us more then we need them. The sad truth is I think with success you lose touch with others. EA with Madden is the best example I can come up with as someone who played 92 on a Sage. The best thing I can think of is to keep speaking out good or bad and maybe someone will take it to heart not as negativity but as a different input with a level of reason.
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They remove things that are "insulting"
Basically if they disagree.
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