The Billie nerf was warranted

Personally I don't care about the nerfs but isn't the reason why people keep saying that was because the devs themselves said that he was a 'golden example of a balanced killer' back when there were loads of nerf billy threads?

Guess now that hes been killed freddys the most balanced now! My boi!

God forbid survivors having to actually get good at the game.

Shame on killers for complaining about X, they just need to get good at the game though.

The problem with balancing a game around bad players is that higher level play will be broken and unfun. If you balanced towards skillful play, you will balance the game at all skill levels. You don't have to learn how to play the game if you don't want to.

Reposting this because people don't seem to understand how pvp games should be balanced.

I think an add-on nerf was warranted. I'm just really tired of seeing red bars on all of the killers.

any killer can do that, oni can do it, huntress can do it, nurse can do it, hag and trapper can end a match in seconds with proper trap placements, etc. any killer can turn a game arround as resources gets used up and survivors make mistakes.

After the changes were announced I kept reading that 'any player with a brain will tell you that Billy was the most balanced killer in the game and did not need changes'. I suppose I don't have a brain, then. I've always thought it was a bit ridiculous how he could freely zoom across the map and instantly down you if you happened to be caught out in a bad spot, which is not unlikely to happen because some gens are placed out in the open and he moves so fast you don't exactly have time to make it to safety.

Most of my games against Billy also feature one or two of my teammates hiding in lockers all game because they are too scared to move (and yes, I'm talking red ranks... Sadly). All it takes is one potato and the rest of the team doesn't really stand a chance of escaping.

his base kit alone isn't that easy or good to use at red ranks, its easy to spin him or make him miss when he doesn't have insta saw or crack, and the only counter to good jukers is to rev it and pay attention to the charge bar, you have to be a W gamer to get hit by a back reving billy with base kit. any good killer knows you have to capitalise on survivor mistakes in order to snowball heavily escpacially with billy, people who get sniped by huntresses aren't paying attention, just like all the other killers, i wouldn't say a plague mowing down 4 surviors during the end game with corrupt has much "skill" involved, neither does oni, just bad plays by survivors in general get cocky after bullying a killer for 3 gens straight and die on first hook during the end game after all resources are used up. his addons needed a nerf yes, but not his base kit like this. its too overbearing. why did you change your profile pic to billy 4 days ago? ive seen you on all forum posts about billy where you brag about carrying your solo queue teams against billys who take no skill, lmao.

I didn't say that, i said his base kit wasn't that good by it self at red ranks, if it was "great" on its own, addons would break it, it was the addons that made him too strong and his addons needed change, his base kit was just fine for being a "base kit", wraith base kit is bad, clown base kit is bad, Billy live base kit isn't "bad" its balanced, but against good survivors who can actually juke him it isn't particularly great and getting insta downs aren't that "easy" at rank 1 against real good survivors who knows how to juke and counter billy, he will destroy bad or new players holding W running in a straight line towoards pallets or windows without looking behind them or even trying to juke, he'll do that even on the PTB right now. only difference now is almost all his addons are bad or doesn't do anything ,his base kit on the PTB get ######### on by good survivors and will force him to be an M1 killer and use the chainsaw for mobility only, he cant curve like he used to, not like the PTB is right now, stop grasping at straws and construed peoples words.

To add to the discussion: Do I think the nerf was warranted? Yes, but not to his basekit.

Things that were really unfun to play against in the past were double-windup addon huntress and instasaw on billy, both with the old tinkerer - which made charge time addons more effective -

That combination of addons + perks made both killers extremely oppressive to play against, effectively removing most of the counterplay you had.

As a consequence, tinkerer was changed to the version we know of right now.

My personal philosophy on addons is that they should make a killer stronger, but within reason, and addon combinations like primer bulb + tuning guide, tuning guide and doom engravings or even tuning guide and thompsons mix made billy much much stronger than he was at baseline, to the point were you could easily stomp most games at red ranks with them if you were even a mediocre Hillbilly player.

The addons are what made Hillbilly extremely strong and viable at high levels of play, and not his basekit. Hillbilly without any addons, or simply addoncombinations that werent Crack or Instasaw, against good players - and I dont mean your average red rank survivor - was a very balanced killer with a good amount of counterplay.

This is what made Hillbilly extremely fun to play as AND against in my opinion, the fact that you felt like the better player would win the chase.

Survivor and Killer interaction in a chase is what is the most fun to me in the game. I dont particularly care about getting four kills every match, or escaping every single match as long as I got to have a fun chase going on with the other player. As such, the ability to 4K every single match is something I simply dont care about as it doesnt tell me how much fun I had playing as or against that killer.

Hillbilly is the Killer I without a doubt had the most fun playing as and against in this game, other Killers just weren't that fun to play against (think Deathslinger, Pyramidhead, Spirit, Nurse) because for the most part I don't feel outplayed, I simply feel like I have to win a coinflip everytime - yes I know there's a certain amount of counterplay to each killer -

I understand the grievances other people had with Hillbilly the way he is on live servers right now.

I agree that his add-ons needed changing. The way they are done now on the PTB leaves you with some interesting choices, I think most of his add-ons are relatively decent or interesting (though I dont understand why they needed to add more gimmick addons with the flashlight-related addons).

But the overheat mechanic is something I can't see myself ever enjoying, even after testing it out on the PTB. Simply adding a cooldown to his chainsaw is something that - to me - removes a lot of the fun and gameplay depth you had with him. For example: being able to zone a survivor into a bad position by holding out your saw, faking the pallet break with your saw, curving, chainsaw feathering at pallets, all these things are effectively removed from gameplay now - at least in my opinion - because I'll have to always keep focus on the heat, possibly preventing me from using the chainsaw alltogether until it has completely cooled down if it ever overheats. This change is really taking the fun out of Hillbilly. Will he still be strong? Possibly. Will people adapt? Definitely. Do i think this change effectively killed the most fun and interactive killer BHVR has ever created? YES.

Being the "most balanced Killer" and "being fine" is different. IMO Add On Changes would have been fine, but if the Devs want to change the Basekit, I can see why they are doing it (unlike a lot of other people, who are crying on the forum).

I also would not say that Billy was the "most balanced Killer": He was more at the Top of being balanced, meaning that every Killer stronger was not balanced anymore.