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The Billie nerf was warranted
All you see around here is a very vocal group decrying the Billie nerfs. But these nerfs are very warranted and Billie feels very oppressive at red ranks and tends to snowball games very hard and very quickly if you get 1 teammate who does not know how to dodge. These nerfs are very welcomed by some. Keep it up BHVR :)
Comments
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No it wasent...
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But: "Billy is the most balanced Killer". If you repeat it, it will become true!
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Personally I don't care about the nerfs but isn't the reason why people keep saying that was because the devs themselves said that he was a 'golden example of a balanced killer' back when there were loads of nerf billy threads?
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And here we see a new red rank that got boosted by the bad matchmaking and that never made it into red ranks before the rank reset system was changed.
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Guess now that hes been killed freddys the most balanced now! My boi!
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Completely agree. All it took was a random stroke of luck and even a mediocre Billy could flip the entire game in an instant with a snowball that was impossible to come back from. Hell he can still do it better than most other m1 killers even after the nerf.
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i play mostly survivor nowadays
if u cried about bily, you def are not supposed to be red rank lmao, only crack and insta needed changing
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The thing is, Billy might have been the most balanced Killer in a time where playing Killer was way harder. But if you change a lot of things over the years which help Killers and nerf Survivors, is Billy still the "most balanced Killer"? But I fear that this will not be understood that if the game becomes easier for Killer, Killers also need to be nerfed.
I mean, just look at the Ruin Change. Killers are doing fine. But tell someone in 2017 or 2018 "Hey, we are changing Ruin".
And this will also affect other Killers in the Future, even Killes who are not really said to be really strong. I mean, Huntress will get a Add On-Rework, this is clear. But also stuff like Tampered Timer of Pig or another Nerf of Spirit Add Ons is something I would see possible in the future.
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Thank you.
Balance changes over time. Something that used to be balanced doesn’t necessarily remain that way if enough other stuff changes. People ask for an ever-shifting meta but they don’t want to devs to actually change anything to do it lmao.
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Makes sense, I mean Billy is insane when you do certain perk combinations.
In all honesty I'm just glad bubba has finally gotten some love. Red ranks are boring when you see the same killers over and over so hopefully they continue to buff the weaker killers so we see a wider roster at red ranks.
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Attacking someone for having an opinion different than you is a pretty ugly personality trait.
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Yeah, and his ability to sprint to the other side of the Map, kick the Gen with PGTW and then return back for the Unhook might have become too much over time. And lets not forget, everything which applies to standard M1-Killers will also apply to Billy, who has the same abilities like M1-Killers (in terms of Movement Speed and that he needs to loop), but also has really high Map Traverse or a quite easy to use Insta-Down without Setup.
Those are both things which are present on other Killers, but not both of it and weaker. Like, Freddy has the Teleport, but no Insta-Down. Myers and Ghostface have Insta-Downs, but no mobility and need Setup. Bubba has an Insta-Down without Setup, but not the Map Traverse. But Billy has it all and if something is good for M1-Killers, it is even better for Billy.
I am not happy with the Add Ons tho. I dont like some of those, because there is not really any real scenario where I want to be a 4,4m/s-Killer just for some Chargetime or where I want to go a little bit faster while being flashlighted.
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That’s what I was telling people here for months. The instadown is incredibly powerful, thats why most have a time limit, except for old Bubba but it was balanced off with slowing him down worse than a survivor while charging and a huge tantrum if he hit an obstacle. Billy basically had no drawbacks and with tuning guide/thompsons mix/plug combos that chainsaw basically replaced his M1.
The add ons are weird but I think they want to avoid add ons that mess with the chainsaw timing and curves, since those were part of the problem on Billy to begin with. Without touching the chainsaw charge times he cant mindlessly spam the chainsaw like an M1 against good survivors anymore.
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Never attacked you, like I always say, if the boot fits feel free to wear it.
Also Billy never deserved a nerf you saying the opposite also shows your favoritism when it comes to the game.
Who knows maybe you just didn't knew how to play against Billy? Maybe you never went against a good Billy? But saying that he deserved the massive nerf shows that you are more into the survivor side.
Even good survivor mains don't think Billy needed a nerf like that, maybe tweaks to the addons but never to the main power.
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Billy's addons were busted, certain combos made him way too strong. Put your bias aside for a second, all the "insta" stuff from the game must be nerfed or changed.
And the overheat is not that bad, you just can't spam your chainsaw because you get punished for missing. It sounds like they just increased the skill floor, which isn't bad.
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I honestly don't mind too much about the nerfs to his base kit with the overheat, however it needs some tweaking. The main problem i have is with his confusing add-ons, especially the ones that are targeted at flashlights which have nothing to do with his power and are completely useless.
Not to mention his ultra rares are not even worth taking over his brown offerings. You're spending a higher amount of BP to hinder yourself. That does not make sense.
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God forbid survivors having to actually get good at the game.
Shame on killers for complaining about X, they just need to get good at the game though.
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Lmao not attacking and then launch into a repeated attack. Yikes.....If you're gonna be a horrible person, at least own it man.
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It doesn't matter if I can run billy for 3 minutes, he can just zipp off with almost no penalty for trying to commit to me even if he doesn't even get a hit, find another survivor who can't and it's basically game over. Not everybody plays in sweaty SWFs, many just play with friends who are of very differing skill levels. Freddy offers the same problem, he can overcommit but his teleport makes it so that this mistake is not really a big one, but at least Freddy doesn't down mediocre survivors in a second.
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I keep seeing people associate Billy with skill. All you do is bulldoze into people and never M1. God forbid Billy actually use his mallet.
And they're now saying Oni is a stronger Billy. Oni can't 1 hit down everyone within the first minute of the match. Oni absolutely deserves what he does because he earns it. He has to build it up first.
Billy deserved everything he got.
With that said I've been watching streams and he can still cruise along in the level even when overheated. And an on-demand 1 hit down is still incredibly powerful. But spamming or even revving it in people's faces until they make a mistake is now long gone. It's now more on Billy to make a conscious decision on how to use his resources.
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Quoting this so the posts of reason don’t get drowned out amongst the sea of salt.
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For 99% of billymains sthings don't even change in the first place, that's the sad thing. He's still gonna be way better than myers who's power is WAY more restricted.
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The problem with balancing a game around bad players is that higher level play will be broken and unfun. If you balanced towards skillful play, you will balance the game at all skill levels. You don't have to learn how to play the game if you don't want to.
Reposting this because people don't seem to understand how pvp games should be balanced.
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This just this!
It is utter bs that killer gets nerfed because people are too inexperienced and do not know how to deal with them. Ignore everything about snowball and all the bs, it is just that. Boosted potatoes do not know how to loop billy and can not be bothered to learn and thus we nerf billy.
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I'm not saying that u ran billy for 3 minutes, I'm saying that once a billy sees you're too good he will just go off and insta** the weakest link and it's game over. And in contrast to clown for example he can do it WAY better and punishes mistakes WAY harder.
All of the tryhards with perfect builds play billy for a reason, no matter if they're actually good or not.
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A Billy nerf was warranted true
This one is a tad too much though
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This. I’ve had games where I’m the only one not going down to a chainsaw in 5 seconds, I’m forced to tbag and tbag and tbag the Billy in the hopes of getting his attention to save the team which I hate doing but if the other player knows to ignore the loopers for the potatoes what can you do?
What bugs me is how all these killer mains say “oh bad survivors”, but the thing is none of these Hillbillys were very good. Just bring instasaw and anti-loop perks and you saw boosted Billys shredding teams, these same players wouldn’t have been able to do that with any other killer. Like the killer mains expect the survivor mains to get good but the killer requires very little skill on their part.
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Couldn't agree more. Billy needed some changes.
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This is the main point about how "balanced" billy is and why i Ignore any BS coming from the community about gamedesign. Balance is always relative to other similar design elements.
Was Billy Balanced back when there were still infinites and selfcaring took 12 seconds so basically an M1 killer could never down a competent survivor AT ALL? Absolutely
Is Billy balanced now in the new DBD against optimal survivors? Yes, actually yes.
How often do you run into optimal survivors with the current matchmaking tho? You'll run into them quite frequently. Will there always be 4 of them? Heck no.
Is Billy balanced when compared to other killers in a more unrealistic scenario of what Billymains call "potatoes vs billy"? ######### no, no other killer can snowball as hard as billy and all it takes is 1 bad apple in the team for it to lose.
Freddy and Spirit are arguably the most oppressive killers in the game right now but even against Freddy and Spirit I can try to make plays by bodyblocking etc, Billy punishes that with a readily available no-offside instadown.
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What was Crack-Billy lol never heard that before
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I think an add-on nerf was warranted. I'm just really tired of seeing red bars on all of the killers.
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Only bad survivors had problems against hillbilly. I'm a survivor main and i did just fine. The killer that can cause problems were spirit if they were good, but after the nerf i've seen wayy less spirits
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And the thing is, if you go against a bad Spirit who gets looped for 3 gens then aside from a NOED crutch, shes likely not going to perform well that game.
With Billy he can be looped for 3-4 gens and still turn the game around in an instant with a few lucky chainsaw hits.
Its that that made him too oppressive imo bring the right add ons and it wasn’t hard to do either.
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theres less spirits because sounds are bugged and the tome have forced an influx of huntress and legion players, but after the latest hotfix ive seen more spirits pop up again, sounds arent as buggy.
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any killer can do that, oni can do it, huntress can do it, nurse can do it, hag and trapper can end a match in seconds with proper trap placements, etc. any killer can turn a game arround as resources gets used up and survivors make mistakes.
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Billy too ez, ez 4k against anyone. Not like you can loop him or anything. Imagine having a chainsaw with no cooldown...OP! Can't wait until people start crying about bubba.
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After the changes were announced I kept reading that 'any player with a brain will tell you that Billy was the most balanced killer in the game and did not need changes'. I suppose I don't have a brain, then. I've always thought it was a bit ridiculous how he could freely zoom across the map and instantly down you if you happened to be caught out in a bad spot, which is not unlikely to happen because some gens are placed out in the open and he moves so fast you don't exactly have time to make it to safety.
Most of my games against Billy also feature one or two of my teammates hiding in lockers all game because they are too scared to move (and yes, I'm talking red ranks... Sadly). All it takes is one potato and the rest of the team doesn't really stand a chance of escaping.
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They can, but it takes skill, knowledge or luck on the killers part. Thats why if a killer played poorly they would likely end the game with a poor result.
Billy could do it pretty damn often. Hell he could do it right from the start of the trial. Bring the right add ons/perks and even mediocre players could do it easily enough.
He was too strong for how easy he is to use.
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his base kit alone isn't that easy or good to use at red ranks, its easy to spin him or make him miss when he doesn't have insta saw or crack, and the only counter to good jukers is to rev it and pay attention to the charge bar, you have to be a W gamer to get hit by a back reving billy with base kit. any good killer knows you have to capitalise on survivor mistakes in order to snowball heavily escpacially with billy, people who get sniped by huntresses aren't paying attention, just like all the other killers, i wouldn't say a plague mowing down 4 surviors during the end game with corrupt has much "skill" involved, neither does oni, just bad plays by survivors in general get cocky after bullying a killer for 3 gens straight and die on first hook during the end game after all resources are used up. his addons needed a nerf yes, but not his base kit like this. its too overbearing. why did you change your profile pic to billy 4 days ago? ive seen you on all forum posts about billy where you brag about carrying your solo queue teams against billys who take no skill, lmao.
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I mean, you were literally saying that base kit Billy is fine and only his charge time add-ons need to be nerfed not long time ago, so ...
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But there was plenty of killer mains on here who tried to argue that Billy was the most balanced killer based on his basekit.
Now we hear basekit isn’t enough....
and there SHOULD be a difficulty in using the chainsaw. Its unlimited instadowns 24/7. If you took instasaw every hit was a chainsaw hit. That was one of the problems with him. Every other killer had to work for an instadown kr came with downsides, except for Billy
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I did not like to face him, because he had so much pressure and could snowball the game easily. The peopel will stop crying soon. Ruin nerf was huge and countless topics were created, now nobody talks about it anymore. Same will happen to billy.
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I didn't say that, i said his base kit wasn't that good by it self at red ranks, if it was "great" on its own, addons would break it, it was the addons that made him too strong and his addons needed change, his base kit was just fine for being a "base kit", wraith base kit is bad, clown base kit is bad, Billy live base kit isn't "bad" its balanced, but against good survivors who can actually juke him it isn't particularly great and getting insta downs aren't that "easy" at rank 1 against real good survivors who knows how to juke and counter billy, he will destroy bad or new players holding W running in a straight line towoards pallets or windows without looking behind them or even trying to juke, he'll do that even on the PTB right now. only difference now is almost all his addons are bad or doesn't do anything ,his base kit on the PTB get ######### on by good survivors and will force him to be an M1 killer and use the chainsaw for mobility only, he cant curve like he used to, not like the PTB is right now, stop grasping at straws and construed peoples words.
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Billy was always fun to verse and people loved playing him.
The changes to his basekit imo are way overdone and remove a lot of the fun of playing him. Feathering around pallets and t walls overheat you in seconds. If you do a long chainsaw around the map then your power cannot be used if you do find someone and you turn into an m1 Billy for a time. His base kit was not bad and while a little tweak may have been warranted imo this is way too much. Animations need a lot of work too most a chainsaw looks like an m1 half the time. I don't think this ptb is ready for release with these Billy changes and his part should be postponed and really looked at again.
Then we have that awful roar he makes, that honestly makes me cringe everytime he does it. I don't understand putting such an annoying noise into the game. I hope they remove that aspect and i dont mean change the sound or voice just remove the roar completely as it is not needed and gets old very very quickly hearing it over and over while playing him.
Post edited by twistedmonkey on4 -
To add to the discussion: Do I think the nerf was warranted? Yes, but not to his basekit.
Things that were really unfun to play against in the past were double-windup addon huntress and instasaw on billy, both with the old tinkerer - which made charge time addons more effective -
That combination of addons + perks made both killers extremely oppressive to play against, effectively removing most of the counterplay you had.
As a consequence, tinkerer was changed to the version we know of right now.
My personal philosophy on addons is that they should make a killer stronger, but within reason, and addon combinations like primer bulb + tuning guide, tuning guide and doom engravings or even tuning guide and thompsons mix made billy much much stronger than he was at baseline, to the point were you could easily stomp most games at red ranks with them if you were even a mediocre Hillbilly player.
The addons are what made Hillbilly extremely strong and viable at high levels of play, and not his basekit. Hillbilly without any addons, or simply addoncombinations that werent Crack or Instasaw, against good players - and I dont mean your average red rank survivor - was a very balanced killer with a good amount of counterplay.
This is what made Hillbilly extremely fun to play as AND against in my opinion, the fact that you felt like the better player would win the chase.
Survivor and Killer interaction in a chase is what is the most fun to me in the game. I dont particularly care about getting four kills every match, or escaping every single match as long as I got to have a fun chase going on with the other player. As such, the ability to 4K every single match is something I simply dont care about as it doesnt tell me how much fun I had playing as or against that killer.
Hillbilly is the Killer I without a doubt had the most fun playing as and against in this game, other Killers just weren't that fun to play against (think Deathslinger, Pyramidhead, Spirit, Nurse) because for the most part I don't feel outplayed, I simply feel like I have to win a coinflip everytime - yes I know there's a certain amount of counterplay to each killer -
I understand the grievances other people had with Hillbilly the way he is on live servers right now.
I agree that his add-ons needed changing. The way they are done now on the PTB leaves you with some interesting choices, I think most of his add-ons are relatively decent or interesting (though I dont understand why they needed to add more gimmick addons with the flashlight-related addons).
But the overheat mechanic is something I can't see myself ever enjoying, even after testing it out on the PTB. Simply adding a cooldown to his chainsaw is something that - to me - removes a lot of the fun and gameplay depth you had with him. For example: being able to zone a survivor into a bad position by holding out your saw, faking the pallet break with your saw, curving, chainsaw feathering at pallets, all these things are effectively removed from gameplay now - at least in my opinion - because I'll have to always keep focus on the heat, possibly preventing me from using the chainsaw alltogether until it has completely cooled down if it ever overheats. This change is really taking the fun out of Hillbilly. Will he still be strong? Possibly. Will people adapt? Definitely. Do i think this change effectively killed the most fun and interactive killer BHVR has ever created? YES.
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Get good.
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Being the "most balanced Killer" and "being fine" is different. IMO Add On Changes would have been fine, but if the Devs want to change the Basekit, I can see why they are doing it (unlike a lot of other people, who are crying on the forum).
I also would not say that Billy was the "most balanced Killer": He was more at the Top of being balanced, meaning that every Killer stronger was not balanced anymore.
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I don't think they should be making big changes until they fix matchmaking. Ppl are not playing with nor going against their skill level.
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Billy oppressive? A real group of red ranks survivors were shitting on billy, EXPECIALLY basekit. Maybe you are just bad? Billy is oppressive against potatoes but a decent team can loop him very long.
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So hold on. Analysing this: the problem is the weak link in the team, not Billy. Why do we have to nerf a killer because of weak survivors?
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