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The pyramid head nerf that could end all Camping
Pyramid heads nerf on cages could be the answer to solve camping killers permanently when pyramid head camps a cage for more the 10 seconds the cage teleports away furthest away from the pyramid head and he can't see were they went that sounds like the perfect way to decentivize all killer from camping that should be applied base to all hooks and effect every killer in the game
Comments
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no
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I have went against P.H. a lot already and I haven't once had a camper (PS4). Maybe I have been lucky 🤷♀️
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What would Ghostface and Wraith players do then though?
Also Hag could still get past it.
Seriously its a great idea but killer mains have veto powers so no never gonna happen
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Problem is survivors will abuse it by looping a hook causing it to teleport away then someone across map gets the free save cuz you know “shouldn’t have camped”
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Not a hard fix with coding. If the killer is not in chase and no survivor is within X meters of the hook, but the killer is within x meters, after x seconds, the hooked player is transferred to another hook. The game recognizes when the killer is in chase, thus giving a "survivor found" bonus. The game recognizes when a survivor is x meters from an object, otherwise how would so many perks work? If the killer hangs around the hook, no survivor is nearby, the hook moves.
If the last gen is done, this function is cancelled out. No need to avoid hardcore campers when the last gen is done.
Look, I don't disagree that camping has it's moments as the best strategy, especially when gens are done. But the concept of camping from hook 1 onward is a joke. It promotes toxicity and is usually met with it. If you can't hunt down survivors and hook them without camping and hardcore tunneling, you need to get better. I reach red ranks every cycle with absolute ease and I go out of my way to avoid camping and tunneling. The only time I alter that is when I face a toxic SWF that follows me to the hook and unhooks right in front of me. In those cases, its on, especially if I figure out they were both part of the SWF.
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I would agree with this only if Pyramid head could actually see the cage auras which he can't.
This information being taken away from him seriously hampers his ability to read the game.
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If killers had veto powers then Nurse would have never been nerfed nor would Billy ve getting nerfed
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######### we get veto powers??? Where do I get mine?
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I don't know why anybody ever thought PH's cages were unfair. Last night I downed and caged a survivor just as they were about to run out the exit. The game sent them to the other open exit gate where all the other survivors were already waiting. It basically handed their entire team a safe escape.
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Being in a case could negate the timer
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No actual input pity
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If i remember correctly killers don't have any say at all look at the billy nerf thats 100% getting added without our say so
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Then if a surv is nearby the timer will pause
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The devs mentioned they don't want to do this or something similar, because they don't want to restrict a player's freedom of choice or something along these lines.
What if a chase hasn't been initiated? Say you're a wraith that's cloaked, or you have a very strong hunch someone is close by because you saw scratch marks really close by, or plain flat out sometimes a chase doesn't initiate unless you're really close, in all three of these situations you hang around the hook for a bit too long even though there is someone there the hooked survivor teleports away.
I mean, while this might have the potential to work, I feel like at that point you would be putting far more effort and pushing a fix that's needlessly complicated and potentially susceptible to bugs rather than something far more organic.
Not to mention, this change probably would have very little impact on high mobility killers like Hillbilly, Oni, Freddy, etc. because they can just zoom on over. Whereas this change would be very punishing on normal killers who don't have that kind of mobility or are even slower, killers like Clown, Plague, Pig, Leatherface, etc. In this way you are pushing good killers, meta killers, to be even more meta than they already are and you're pushing worse killers further and further into obscurity.
The only reason this mechanic works and works well for Pyramid Head and not as a default mechanic for hooks is because of the freedom of choice. When you're playing as Pyramid Head, you are given the option to send survivors into a cage all the way on the other side of the map you aren't forced to. This introduces an interesting and unique dynamic for Pyramid Head's gameplay and allows for a decent amount of strategy where you have to weigh the risks vs. rewards of sending someone to a cage.
It's widely known that you generally don't want to use the cage every single time you're given the opportunity to do so, if you do you're liable to lose a lot of pressure and run the risk of only priming somebody with We'll Make It or something to get quick heals to make a safe save without risking anything. However using it once in awhile to force survivors to relocate position or to waste their time crossing the entire map to go for a save if you know they're not on that side to begin with can be a very useful tool.
Forcing this mechanic not only devalues Pyramid Head's own Cage of Atonement not only in it's usefulness but as a new and unique mechanic, but it also takes that choice away from killers. It removes the strategy of deciding where to hook someone, and as a side note: it also completely removes the entire threat and function of the basement hooks as a strong defensive position.
Camping isn't fun, it's not fun for the killer, it's not fun for the hooked survivor, and it's boring for the survivors doing gens not interacting with the killer. But this isn't the way to solve the problem, it's a bad idea.
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This kinda reminds me of a magician-themed perk idea I had where getting hooked for the first time would let you vanish from the hook and re-appear on another random hook.
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No.
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They thought PH being able to see the cages auras was unfair, not the cages themselves. The cages are fine. Also the cage always spawns as far from you as possible, always hook if the gates are available/powered as PH.
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Freedom of choice thats rich coming from the devs gutting legion nurse and soon to be billy
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Useless post like this should just be either be bannable since they provide nothing to the conversation or removed by mods
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That adds 2 more issues then 1 killer can camp even harder now if survivors are too altruistic and your fix would do nothing or 2 survivors will refuse to save their team cuz they can just wait till the hooked survivor comes to them
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In your first scenario, it would only move if there was no survivor within the area. So if you are the killer and you are searching around the area because you think someone is there and it suddenly moves, that answers your question because it won't move if a survivor is in the area as well. All of this can be coded in. If the scratch marks seen were a survivor who left the area and you stay, then the hooked survivor is transported to another hook, you should instinctively know that you just wasted your time because that mechanic only works if no survivor is in the area.
As for high mobility killers, it won't matter. Part of the function is if Billy is camping, and no survivor is in the declared range of the hook, the survivor gets transported to another hook and Billy can no longer see the aura. He has no clue where that survivor went. If the 5th gen pops during that time, the mechanic is cancelled and the survivor does not move or his aura becomes visible.
Look, I would hate to see the game take these lengths to limit camping and tunneling, but at some point they have to do something. I already hate playing survivor, but decided to get some extra BP doing the Rift Challenges since my killer wait times were 20 minutes. I played 10 survivor matches and regretted it the whole time. Nine of those matches were killers tunneling directly off the hook or hardcore camping the hook from the start. They were boring matches with low BP totals for everyone because there is little to no interaction with the killer other than sitting on the hook. That is NOT what this game was meant to be. Its the exact reason they made pure stealth play so hard to pull off, because they want you to interact with each other. The biggest BP rewards come from interaction on both sides.
There are a thousand things I'd like to see improved for killers, but I will not whine or cry at attempts to limit hardcore camping/tunneling. I find it lazy on the killer's part and quite toxic. I despise it as much as I do those 4 man groups that have little interest in gens and more interest in chasing the killer around with flashlights. Neither are parts of the game that were meant to be and both hurt the game. I'd love to see a mechanic where they could recognize 4 man SWF groups and the killer gets buffs with each gen that gets finished or each time they are blinded by a flashlight. (New Lightborn will help with that).
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You also run into Killers purposefully running over to hook survivors so that others can't unhook him.
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I see no problem with that. It screws over all morons that actively camp and tunnel with the least camp/tunnel friendly killer power I can think of.
Edit: just the PH part, not the "every hook" part.
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A similiar change was done to deathgarden back then, it spiraled into those runners getting less and less punished for death, it may have been a bigger contribution to the game's demise. If im wrong...
Then i can still say that such a mechanism sucks in dbd.
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Ghostface and Wraith should do what they're supposed to do and not stalk/camp hooks. They don't need to if they run barbecue or discordance or any perk that gives them a clue where survivors are. If Ghostface and Wraith camp hooks, they're just being lazy and toxic honestly.
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Sure, I like a lot of what you said. But again it almost feels like you're not 100% on board with this change either and are hesitant to support it
"I would hate to see the game take these lengths to limit camping and tunneling"
I still believe my prior statements stand, and because of that I don't really have anything else to add on to this discussion. Especially that part about why this power works for Pyramid Head, but not as a default mechanic that would affect all killers.
"The only reason this mechanic works and works well for Pyramid Head and not as a default mechanic for hooks is because of the freedom of choice. When you're playing as Pyramid Head, you are given the option to send survivors into a cage all the way on the other side of the map you aren't forced to. This introduces an interesting and unique dynamic for Pyramid Head's gameplay and allows for a decent amount of strategy where you have to weigh the risks vs. rewards of sending someone to a cage.
It's widely known that you generally don't want to use the cage every single time you're given the opportunity to do so, if you do you're liable to lose a lot of pressure and run the risk of only priming somebody with We'll Make It or something to get quick heals to make a safe save without risking anything. However using it once in awhile to force survivors to relocate position or to waste their time crossing the entire map to go for a save if you know they're not on that side to begin with can be a very useful tool.
Forcing this mechanic not only devalues Pyramid Head's own Cage of Atonement not only in it's usefulness but as a new and unique mechanic, but it also takes that choice away from killers. It removes the strategy of deciding where to hook someone, and as a side note: it also completely removes the entire threat and function of the basement hooks as a strong defensive position."
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Again, I'd prefer a way of just punishing toxic players across the board, but BHVR would not only find it difficult to define it, but shows little interest in lowering toxicity as a whole. They actually spend more time defending bad behavior than anything else.
That said, the cage movement mechanic would work no different as a hook movement mechanic. Killers who can't see where the survivor went will find it harder to camp the hook.
The hesitation you pick up on is more that I know anything that is done in any way will be exploited by some toxic player or another. I'd rather see this mechanic tested thoroughly before it went live. I don't trust the PTB because it is wide open for all and many players just goof off, or DC on the PTB. Hard to test mechanics when nobody is playing the game. (That is an entirely different rant)
In short, I'd rather see steps taken to limit the ability to camp and tunnel as opposed to just sticking with the status quo. As a killer, I have zero problem with the mechanic as I would rather hook someone and get to the next gen to down another survivor. I often run DH as well, so being far from the hook is one step closer to their demise. :)
GL out there.
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But who are you to judge or tell someone the way THEY NEED to play killer? People can play killer any way they feel. There is no damn rule book, and people need to learn that. Your going against a killer, who's goal is to hook and kill you as fast as possible. There's no rule book for survivor. They can hammer out gens as fast as they want, let each other know every step the killer takes, etc, etc. I always here survs also complain about killers always having to get the 4k, and that they should let the last guy go, but when RR SWFs take on a 16 rank killer, do they show mercy? Do they let the killer get a free kill? Hell no. They bully the ######### outta them until they either rage quit, or go afk.
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Ok how about we do the same with gens? Deal?
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i agree; but this should really only work while gens are still active; the only time camping is "okay" is when its end game time. My only concern is how the basement would go with that
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Someone's had some bad matches as killer. Dang.
Sure, you can play that way, but is it really working that hard for the win? Is it really trying? No.
Survivors are not armed. Survivors don't have the ability to stun a killer anywhere they please on the map. If you camp, stalk, tunnel, you take away a survivor's chance to have a good game. Sure, you don't owe them anything, but in a game where survivors don't have weapons to fight back, you are taking the easy way out. Certainly there are cases where someone is toxic and deserves the punishment of being camped, but to do it every match? Naw, that's lazy AF. You "learn that" as you say.
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For everyone complaining about the people simply saying "no" there is a reason. Because a nerf like this is so self indulgent, so entitled that it would be foolish to even consider it. So yeah, the answer to "why dont we make the cages tp if ph is camping for more than 10 seconds" is and should be "No"
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I've had a few, but I usually 3-4k without ever camping, unless it's endgame. I'm not handing out free rescues at endgame so your whole team can get away. And what about the rank 16 killers that get matched w rank 1's and do everything they can just to compete, finally down someone, and use them as bait? I see zero problem there, because there out matched, and already have zero chance. Maybe if people would quit bullying and being toxic and realize, " Hey, I'm versing a potatoe. Maybe we should take it easy and let him get a couple hits and hooks. We already blasted through all the gens but one, and no ones been hooked." But instead, they bully the ######### outta them until they DC, finally get a down and just camp, or go AFK.
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Using crutch perks and playing with 4man swf on comms is lazy AF.
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Again, someone's had some bad matches.
SWF doesn't justify camping or tunneling. You don't know which matches are SWF and it's definitely not all of them.
Watch literally any video of a killer on YouTube. You don't need to camp and tunnel to win. You just don't. Like I said, there are circumstances where it makes sense, but if that's what you are doing every match, it's not the way to go. For one thing, you're just angering folks. For another, you're not really trying. If you can live with that, fine. But don't say you're great at this game or that you got to Rank 1 with any skill.
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Can someone please explain to me how it's easier to camp a cage that spawned at the other side of a map than a hook which you literally have to put them on yourself?
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I never said I camp or tunnel. You are just making stupid comments. Killers are the ones that should always play a certain way and if they don't, they are lazy and scummy. I'm sick of seeing this over and over. Survivors way of playing isn't the only way and if killers want to camp and tunnel, all the power to them. There are 5 players in a match and 4 players should have fun but the lonely one is always ignored and nobody cares about it.
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Pyramid heads cages have no value at all
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Twist my words to suit your purposes. It's clear that you are the one making stupid and misinformed comments.
At no point did I say there was only one way to play killer. There are MANY ways to play killer. I was simply recommending that folks strive to better than a camper/tunneler/stalker and pointing out that it is too easy to play that way.
If anything I am sparing killers the constant toxicity they will receive in post-game chat if they camp/tunnel/etc. every match.
I'm sorry if you feel like everyone is against you as a killer player, but we're honestly not.
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I get toxicity a lot without even camping or tunneling. Nothing is in killers favor and devs won't fix matchmaking or gen speeds and still killers aren't allowed to play how they want. It is straight up bs.
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I don't think that's a good idea... The change to the cages was a bandaid fix, because Pyramid Head could originally just stand in front of the caged survivor, basically facecamping them, without a chance for the team to go for a rescue.
However, since it is a bandaid fix, it doesn't solve the original problem. You can still completely deny a rescue for five seconds, until the survivor is teleported away. When this happens, all efforts to free the survivor from the initial position of the cage have been for nothing. They'll have to traverse the whole map again and most of the times won't reach the caged guy before second phase or death. It's a cruel strategy, but I'd rather face a camper than this as basekit.
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I would have to disagree
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That might’ve been me because I was about to leave and then my friend got caged right next to me and a open exit gate.
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