General Discussions
General Discussions
Dead hard for distance needs looking at.
In 4 matches today, dead hard for distance cost me 12 downs. Unsurprisingly all from rank 1 survivors. This isn't a "bait it out" type deal, this is a nothing you can do about it, they make the pallet either way type deal. There is not a single perk in this game that has that kind of value, it's absolutely broken.
Comments
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All it needs is a token system and bam, it's now resource management instead of staying injured the whole game for free escapes.
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Yeah, nerf even more good Survivor Perks so that all we have left is Deja-Vu. Even less variety sounds great.
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Yeah, nerf even more good Killer Perks (Ruin) so that all we have left is Monstrous Shrine. Even less variety sounds great.
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There are a ton of good survivor perks. Just because a perk isn't a second-chance perk doesn't make it bad.
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If dead harding for distance bothers you, play a ranged killer. DH grants FAR less distance than any other exhaustion perk, and survivors should absolutely be rewarded for skillful plays.
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The Ruin-Rework resulted in more variety instead of Ruin + PGTW + BBQ + Perk X.
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But ruin caused builds to be extremely stale. At least now we get some slightly decent variety with Corrupt and Pop, I personally still run ruin on legion and nurse.
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That's a lie. Now instead its just PGTW + BBQ + Corrupt + Perk X.
Maybe if killers didn't lose 2-3 gens during the 1st chase people would be more inclined to not stack gen regression perks.
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Killers can still use Ruin, it is still a decent Perk. Obviously only if you are somewhat decent as Killer, it is no mindless Slowdown like before. But if someone is good at Killer, Ruin is way more annoying than before.
And well, I guess its up to you if you decide to chase someone for 3 Gens.
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The problem is the current meta is genrushing. Its basic math. Early game doesn't exist.
Look at it this way.
Match starts, survivors and killers typically spawn on opposite sides of the map. As a killer, i immediately run to the other side of the map where survivors spawn ( i have 1000 hours so it's generally easy for me to know exactly where everyone spawned). Depending on the map size, it takes 20-30 seconds to walk to that point. Assuming survivors all spawn apart (which they typically do), its probably going to take them around 10 seconds to find a gen. Let's say it's a small map.
10 seconds to find the first survivor. they run and hold W.
Takes 15 seconds to catch up to them (all they are doing is holding W) I hit them.
Take another 15 seconds to catch up to them (again, just holding w) i down them.
Take a couple of seconds to pick them up watching for flashlight/pallet saves.
Take another 5 or so seconds to walk to a hook.
Another second or 2 to hook and get my bearings.
Now lets do that math.
10 seconds + 15 seconds + 20 seconds + 3 seconds + 5 seconds + 2 seconds
10 + 15 + 15 + 3 + 5 + 2 = 50 seconds
Now, a killers power can slow this down depending on the killer, but survivors also have pallets and such they can go to, which i didn't even address yet.
Now, factor in that walk speed walking to another generator, and you have most likely lost 2-3 gens (if survivors smashed them immediately, which at thousands of hours played they all do).
Now factor in that if the survivor can loop, find a pallet, a window. All of which, if they are unsafe, will add maybe 5 - 10 seconds to a chase (for the mindgame), or add another 20 if it is a safe pallet.
If you do the basic math, you see that early game doesn't exist. There is a reason ruin was strong and used so often, because it was the only perk in the entire game that addressed this problem and slowed down the early game. Corrupt does not address this problem because survivors will often either wait out the timer or just hammer the gens anyway, maybe instead of losing 3, you only lose 2. This is not to say survivors are OP. Once that first hook is down, pressure is getting applied and the game starts to naturally slow down. But until that early game is addressed, i have no options.
This is why i'm a nurse main, because those 2 15 second halves of the chase become 5 seconds and means survivors might not complete 60% of their objective in the time i complete 8% of mine.
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DH only activates while injured and doesn't work half of the time. If you are using a 1 hit killer like Billy, Oni or Bubba it's not a problem. There's also Devour hope to counter it once it's activated, STBFL and PWYF to make you faster so chases don't get to that point. DH is strong because of the last second potential save you get but it's no different than sprint burst l, lithe or BL in the fact that you can only use it one time in chase to give you a small advantage in getting away. Deathslinger, huntress and doctor are great counters to DH. Just learn to be more versatile and you won't have as much trouble.
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DH causes deathslinger and huntress projectiles to just go through them. It not only dashes forward but also gives you invincibility frames. Also the amount of times that i shock someone as doctor and they still vault a window after the shock makes it unreliable.
The problem with DH is it has no counter. With sprint burst, i can counter it multiple ways, i can try to lead the survivor somewhere else i want them to go, i can abandon chase and go for someone else, then re-engage when it is on cooldown.
With Lithe, i can prevent them from getting to a window and loop in a different direction.
With Balanced, i can choose to not chase that survivor in an area where they can use it.
With headon, there are various perks and powers that counter lockers, or i can bait the stun.
Lithe and Balanced are also more situational and can be used in less situations than the others, making their strength more justifiable.
Dead hard can be used in every situation, in any part of the map, and in every chase. You can't avoid it, all you can do is bait it, and at high level, people usually use dead-hard for distance to guarantee extra loops.
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Variety? Yeah, cough cough Adrenaline + DH + BT + DS or Unbreakable
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The Majority of Survivor Perks are not worth running. Killers have abilities they can at least go for Perks they can use with their Killer. e.g. Enduring makes sense on M1-Killers, but not on Spirit. Stridor is a Perk which is not really useful on most Killers, but super-strong on Spirit. Nemesis works on Bubba.
So its usually unlikely that you get to see the same Perks on every Killer.
But for Survivors, they are only Skins and the number of good Perks is really limited. Since the BL-Nerf, the number of actually useful Exhaustion Perks is 2 - Dead Hard and Sprint Burst (I dont count Adrenaline as Exhaustion Perk and Head On is more gimmicky than useful). Nerf Dead Hard and there is only Sprint Burst. Yay, less variety.
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Never saw dead hare for distance being a problem, if I think they have dead hard, I usually don't swing until after they use it. As for genrushing, I just unlocked the plagues perk that blocks the furthest gens from me for 2 whole minutes at the start. Love it to death.
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No, dead hard is far more valuable than sprint burst, because you can save it for chase.
You're probably in the green ranks, where you won't see it much, I am in the red ranks where you see it all the damned time, because it's so strong.
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The problem is not Dead Hard, the problem is how fast gens are done.
Dead Hard is a pretty good perk, but the real issue is that it has the potential to extend the chases a bit longer (which allows you to go to the next loop), the time the killer looses because this perk makes even harder to fight the gen rush meta.
I would not nerf dead hard, I would nerf the gen progresion.
The only nerf I would do is not allowing Dead Hard to avoid bear traps.
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I would be cool with either one, or getting rid of the ridiculous amount pallets in certain maps. 7-10 pallets should be the magic number, not this 15-20 bs.
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I think it would be good if devs removed any distance rush gained by DH and increase "immunity" window by a few fractions of second or allowed to use it twice before exhausting
So survivor doesn't "rush" forward, but "dodges" a hit.
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If you get that many Pallets on the Map they are mostly unsafe.
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Dead Hard is the main reason I think more safe pallets should be replaced with unsafe pallets.
Survivors using DH to reach a safe pallet is very frustrating as killer.
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No. Ormond, azarovs, fractured cowshed, the game, and the badham maps have a ton of pallets.
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Ok, you consider Badham Maps as safe? Oof. I guess you have bigger problems than Dead Hard then, Mate.
The other Maps mentioned (except maybe for The Game, I dont know) dont have that many Pallets. Let alone that Azarovs Resting Place is pretty good for Killer.
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Are you kidding me? Am I the only one that gets strong survivors? Shack, school basement, house of pain all safe. The car loops are all safe since survivors can see you. House with the single gen has a safe pallet. About the only one that's totally not safe is the one on the tree behind the school.
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I don't think capping a free escape from a hit is harsh. There should be risk to using it. Right now the only risk is the latency with the server. Otherwise you just get another escape way too soon. I guess if they made the cooldown longer it would be better.
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Yes, you are the only one who gets strong Survivors! Most Survivors at Red Ranks are not good enough to be there, but you, and only you, get super-strong Survivors.
And regarding Badham - The School and the House of Pain could get some Changes, thats for sure. But if we consider those Pallets, those are 6 in total which are super-safe. The rest of Badham, basically every Pallet outside of a Building is unsafe and playable for the Killer.
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There are still numerous map variations that can spawn quite a few safe pallets (which is too many safe pallets). And of course, some maps are just naturally strong for survivors due to the number of safe pallets that usually spawn.
If you get a strong survivor map against survivors with DH, you're going to have a bad time as killer.
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Personally, I would be fine with a shitload of unsafe Pallets (which are still useable, not stuff like Hawkins-Pallets or Temple of Purgation-Pallets) and a few safe Pallets per Map.
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The majority of survivorperks are not worth running because nothing is able to remotely beat a perk that basically gives you a hookstate. Very good survivors do not need those ######### tons of second chances and will still ######### on killers. The perks are especially broken when you consider that each survivor has the same amounts of slots as killers therefore their perks SHOULD be weaker individually, yet the only perk that comes close to survivorpower is NOED, Pop, CI and Infectious on some killers, mostly NOED tho.
The perks that strip survivors of healthstates are most of the time VERY situational like haunted grounds or devour hope, pop is not even worth a hookstate compared to survivor progression.
All those "EXTRA LIFE" perks in general need to be VERY situational unless you want to bring up hundreds of perks to their level which ain't gonna happen.
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Exactly.
Its not that all other perks are bad, it's that the meta ones are THAT good.
It's kinda hard to beat extra lives in a game that's all about time.
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That's what I would like too. Instead of nerfing DH, just update the maps.
But you have to understand why people strongly dislike DH. There are still quite a few pallet heavy maps that make DH users a nightmare to play against.
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DH (just like any other exhaust perk) grants a survivor the ability to make it to a safe zone which they couldn't have reached otherwise - it's sort of the equivalent to insta-down killer perks such as haunted ground, noed, rancor, etc etc, which in turn rob the survivor of an opportunity to take a hit and make it to a safe zone.
If exhaust perks that grant survivors the ability to reach safety are too powerful, then their killer counterpart (instadown perks) are also too powerful. Personally I don't see an issue with either.
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And in what way is 4 people running dead hard, decisive and bt every match not stale?
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dont use ruin to get use of it you need map pressure you dont have that early game, and then the totem breaks 3 mins in, its just not worth it run pop/corrupt
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Man that haunted ground, rancor meta. Killers use those insta-down perks in every game for a reason....oh wait they don't because they're not even as close to reliable as pressing E or Spacebar if 60 seconds haven't passed.
NOED is almost in full control of survivors, if nobody wants to equip small game or take a map with them then that's on them and it's the only perk of the ones that you mentioned that will frequently spiral out of control.
Haunted grounds giving you more than 3 hooks is basically a youtube worthy highlight.
Killers are basically currently playing with what the equivalent of a restricted survivor perkloadout would be where you'd at most get one second chance perk.
Getting Devour Hope off is a damn rarity, MYC is only reliable on some killers who are capable of finding survivors or if you're proxycamping.
Survivor second chance perks are most of the time very reactionary which is why they're used in the first place.
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There are considerably more good survivor perks than good killer perks. They just aren't all brain-dead second-chance perks that people just slap on and get to use for free.
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If dodging a hit were easier with dead hard right now then yeah dead Harding for distance should be looked at but when I’m exhausted on the ground it’s really unfair.
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Gotta agree on that one tho.
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At the end of the day it's your choice to run what you want to run. Just like you won't always be able to capitalise on haunted ground, a survivor is not always have the opportunity to dead hard for distance, in which case they'll use it as a last resort to dodge a hit, which we all know never works against any killer who's played more than 3 matches.
With that said, you actually missed the point I made - exhaustion perks and insta-down perks are opposite equivalents. One allows survivors to get to safety without taking a hit and the other allows killers to stop survivors from getting to safety after taking a hit. If you argue that one is too powerful or unfair, you should also accept that the other is as well.
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Sure as heck seems that way when most survivor mains play it off like they're all potatoes instead of seal team 6.
The pallets that are low, such as the cars on badham and the tires on the auto haven maps are 100% safe too. You would have to be a terrible survivor to get hit there. There is no mindgame when you can see the killer. Loop it three times, dead hard, throw pallet, run to another safe loop.
With the gen times and perks available to survivors, I think it would be dang close at the end if there were only one pallet per tile and no fillers.
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Why is DH for distance considered OP, but using SB for distance (which has even less counters) isn’t?
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Only swf use that because its reliable and that's just the tryhards my build is spine chill dead hard resilience and ds
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They nerfed ruin because they found problems with it. Dh isn't even the strongest exhaustion perk. That goes to sb bl lithe or head on. Dh is the weakest exhaustion perk.
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hahahahahaha that’s the biggest load of nonsense I’ve ever heard. The killer has so many more advantages. DH didn’t cost you the down, YOU costed you the down. LmaoZzzzzzz
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Pallets are unsafe in so many areas. There’s too many of them imo
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There are plenty of good perk builds for survivors that stray from the meta. Just because you don't want to experiment doesn't mean other options aren't there for you. I personally don't care that most survivors tend to run mostly second chance perks because they aren't all that hard to play around and it makes sense to use them, but don't pretend that there's literally no other choice just because survivors are skins lol
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Also, Head On can be amazing if you use it properly. Locker builds exist. Inner Strength + Head On. A build that also rewards doing totems. No more NOED procs.
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Who is unironically running no mither? Other than people going for adept obviously
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I get your argument and I agree but you're completely delusional if you think new Ruin is anywhere near old Ruin.
Neither is OP but new Ruin is, as per usual, USELESS vs SWF. It has literally nothing to do with how good someone is at playing killer.
Yes OP's statement is incredibly one sided and unfounded as hell but I don't get why you're trying to defend another dead cause.
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Majority of perks not worth running? I feel bad for you. Allow me to enlighten you...
Adrenaline, Sprint Burst, Head On (and yes, it's not as strong as dead hard but it's still worth a slot), Dead Hard, Spine Chill, Resilience, Inner Strength, Autodidact (for longer games), Bond, Kindred, Open Handed (particularly with the previous two perks), Empathy, We'll Make It, Borrowed Time, Soul Guard, Unbreakable, Repressed Alliance (if used correctly), Iron Will, Prove Thyself, Balanced Landing, Decisive Strike, Object of Obsession, Deliverance, Fixated (with exhaustion perks), and For the People are all worth using. Many should be pretty obvious, and as for the others on that list, I have used them to great effect.
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