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Amanda's add-ons.

Volfawott
Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893

Alright if Amanda is ever going to get an add-on pass I feel like it's a good idea to just talk about some of her add-ons.

Last Will

Face Mask

Combat Straps

Medical File

Shattered Syringe

Video Tape

Jigsaws Annotated Sketch

Bag of Gears

These add-ons are fine the way they are for the love of god please do not touch them.


Status condition add-ons

With the exception of Face Mask a lot of these add-ons just basically encourage you to go after people with reverse bear traps which is pretty much counterintuitive to their design.

Face Mask doesn't really have this problem in fact the only real problem with face mask is that blindness probably one of the worst status conditions in the game.

I feel like with the exception of Face Mask all of these should be more integrated with the ambush. For the love of god don't make the blindness timed ambush based thing it's fine as a pseudo permanent reverse bear trap affect.


Tampered timer

I might get some heat for this but this add-on in itself is incredibly problematic especially when combined with other add-ons.

Scorpionz and Otz have already done tests which pretty much show that if this is combined with Crate of Gears or Jigsaw Sketch very easily and mindlessly for survivors into a death by RNG with next to no actual input on the pig players part.

A suggestion I would have for this is rework it so it has a different effect. Either it starts the timer automatically without the need of a gen or if a generator is complete whilst the trap is active it takes a chunk of time away.


Stall add-ons

Crate of Gears and Jigsaw Sketch

These two add-ons are fine even when combined with each other they're still fine.

It's only the inclusion of one of them being combined with Tampered Timer that makes them problematic as long as Tampered Timer is changed these are fine.


I don't even know

Amanda's Secret and Rule set no 2


What in the world do I say about these two add-ons besides just rework them from the ground-up.

RSN2 is an ultra rare it is actively detrimental to use as it will just encourage people to complete generators so they can see the Jigsaw boxes instead of wasting time blindly looking for them.


Amanda's Secret this tends to fall under two categories it's basically either

A tunnel me harder add-on which usually forces one person to constantly be targeted at the same time as it's doing what I said about the majority of this status condition add-ons it's terrible and counterintuitive to what the traps are meant for.

Or

It's practically pointless because you're usually doing something else besides just waiting for someone to take a trap off and it's not a very smart idea to drop what you're doing just to chase a person. Who hasn't been doing gens and is likely just trying to reorganize themselves after getting the trap off.


Amanda's Letter

Honestly this is my favourite add-on it really doesn't need anything this is just a personal want in my book.

I would like if the Aura reading range is bumped up to make it feel more like an ultra rare even at the cost of fully removing the Jigsaw boxes and trap because let's be honest the one trap with a 50/50 chance wasn't doing much.

Bumping the range up to 16 or even 20 would just feel nice.


Tl;dr.

Add-ons that should stay the same

Last Will

Face Mask

Combat Straps

Medical File

Shattered Syringe

Video Tape

Jigsaws Annotated Sketch

Bag of Gears

Jigsaw Sketch

Crate of Gears


Add-ons needing a rework

Amanda's Secret

Rule Set No 2.

Tampered Timer

Rusty Attachments

Slow-Release Toxin

Utility Blades


Add-ons that would just need a kit adjustment

Workshop Grease

Razor Wire

Interlocking Razors


Buff if possible

Amanda's Letter

Comments

  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893

    Btw I make this list specifically because after seeing what happened with Billy and the nurse I don't want them to completely cripple Amanda's add-ons there are a lot of them they don't need to be changed.

    There are a lot of them that needs to be changed for specific reasons

    There were some of them that don't need to be touched but they need some tweaks to her basic kit or synergy for them to actually be able to work.

    I was a high advocate for Amanda to get a add-on pass I'm also a high advocate for Legion to get redo their add-on pass as their one was completely rushed.

    But I am genuinely worried and that if touch Legion or Amanda they are just going to make their add-ons worse.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,817

    I actually really like your idea for Tampered Timer- it starting the trap automatically without the need of a gen. This brings back relevance to Endgame Pig and makes her incredibly lethal with the EGC now.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    I disagree on Face Mask being okay. I think it's garbage. All four of the "Survivors wearing a Reverse Bear Trap suffer from the ________ status effect" add-ons should be changed IMO.

    From my experience, Tampered Timer isn't nearly as potent as Scorpionz described. If anything, it's a bad add-on because unless someone straight-up dies to the Reverse Bear Trap (which they probably won't, even in the most ideal scenario for the Pig), the add-on does absolutely nothing. That said, I support changing it because of that, as either it does EVERYTHING and kills someone or it does NOTHING and rots with no real control over it (short of just crouch-tunneling someone to death). I always seem to waffle on how I feel about an add-on that auto-starts the RBTs. I guess if there's no Tampered Timer, it's fine? I don't like the idea of making it so finishing more gens strikes off more time from a Trap.

    Amanda's Secret and RSN2 should be completely gutted and reworked entirely, yes.

    I think Amanda's Letter simply needs the downside removed. As-is, it only really puts in work on in-door maps, and I don't think upping the aura-reading is going to fix that (especially if you're going to completely gut the RBTs entirely).

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069

    What do you want to change into her basekit? 😀

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069

    Because I bet that she will be nerfed with camping jigsaw boxes and tunneling people with reverse bear traps.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    They already tried "nerfing" tunneling people with RBTs, and it didn't work. Also, how would one nerf camping Jigsaw Boxes? Move the key to a different box and make the Survivor waste time running to it?

  • anarchy753
    anarchy753 Member Posts: 4,212
    edited July 2020

    I made a pretty in-depth suggestion on how I believe her add ons should be reworked, it's old (from right before they merged half of combat straps into the default power) but it's still pretty much exactly as relevant today: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/37567/pig-rework-suggestion

    I really can't understand why the devs create killers with these multifaceted powers, but then go "ok, we'll give 1-2 common add ons to the useful part of the power, then the other 20+ to the crap part!" We've seen it with Pig where most of her add ons give debuffs on the traps, or alter how Jigsaw boxes work in almost meaningless ways or actively make them better for survivors, and we've seen it again with Demogorgon who only has like 2 shred add ons and a plethora of "barely alters portals" add ons.

    I think for Pig, any debuffs should be moved from the traps to the ambush, reward getting hits at the start of chases with a stealth attack rather than make standing up and swinging a better option half the time. She should have add ons that improve the ambush, and those that affect Jigsaw boxes shouldn't be reliant on skill checks to be useful.

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069

    Just because they tried doesn't mean that they can't try again. I have a feeling that they're gonna try to do with this. I also have feeling that her crouch animation will be more smooth and her ambush attack will be buffed.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    I won't go too far into it, as this isn't really the thread for that, but consider this: There's only so much that can be done to trim the problematic parts of the Reverse Bear Trap without running the risk of making the RBTs non-threatening to the point where Survivors just stop respecting them. Yes, they are a stall tool first, but if there isn't enough of a threat to them, then Survivors will have little issue with just ignoring them and working on gens until the Timer starts up. Which means they won't be doing their job of being a stall tool.

  • PokemonGOPlayer
    PokemonGOPlayer Member Posts: 179

    I just wish for Combat Straps to stay as they are and for the base crouching to not get worse, they can do whatever they want with the other add-ons.

    Want to make Tampered Timer something dumb like "Whenever a Survivor crouches more than 3 times in a span of 2 seconds their aura will be revealed to you for 5 seconds"? Be my guest.

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069

    I mean. They can always change the mechanic of how RBT's to be a better stall tool. Look how many new and reworked perks are now affected by the entity. You know what? I think when it comes to pig update, if the killer will interput the survivor with RBT when he's looking for the key in jigsaw boxes, the entity will just take off the RBT like items for Franklin's Demise. Something like that you know...

  • anarchy753
    anarchy753 Member Posts: 4,212

    That basically hands any survivor with a trap on immortality. They can make stupid decisions all they like and the killer loses their power (which already has limited charges) if they capitalise on that.

    If you don't want a Pig going for you with a trap on, then don't search a Jigsaw box when the Pig is chasing someone nearby, don't go directly to the closest box when you're unhooked, and don't run out in front of her thinking you're immune to being hit.

    The answer isn't taking away the killer's choice to capitalise on your mistakes just because people behave stupidly when they have traps on.

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069

    Really? You don't see it in the chainsaw brothers? Devs are now trying to pusish you if you're gonna use your powers to camping. Letherface tantrum...Hillbilly's overheat....

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871
    edited July 2020

    That's a different discussion altogether. Those changes discourage camping the hook. You're suggesting discouraging attacking Survivors.

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069

    Dude. I'm not saying that pig needs a nerf, but I think she's gonna be nerfed in her update rework in the same way like bubba and billy.

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069
    edited July 2020

    But activated RBT can also kill you... and jigsaw boxes are your the only way to counter this.

  • BigBrainMegMain
    BigBrainMegMain Member Posts: 3,826

    She can't be crouched for too long or she gets cramps.

    BHVR will put a red bar to how long she can remain crouched. If she's left crouched for too long, her knees will give out and she'll be in Prone Status for 2 minutes at 33% movement speed.

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069

    Yes he was, but notice: if he's gonna camp now with chainsaw, he's gonna trigger the tantrum mechanic.

  • anarchy753
    anarchy753 Member Posts: 4,212

    Pig doesn't need changes like that because she's had them from the get go. Her stealth comes with a movement speed debuff, and her RBTs have limited charges across the match.

    Killers like Billy never had any real downside, nor resource-management. You could use the chainsaw as often as you liked at any given time. Pig has always had to think about her ambush because using it too liberally punishes you by giving survivors a lot of distance between you, and RBTs can't ever be 'spammed.'

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    That's camping the hook. Unless you have an idea to stop Pig from crouching next to the hook. Anyways, we're kinda derailing the thread. Best go back to the topic at hand.

  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069

    Well okay. But for the more examples doctor was also nerfed with camping (Instantly grabs from treatment mode)

    Just wanna tell you guys that she might be nerfed like that with camping the jigsaw boxes in her coming update.

  • BaldursGate2
    BaldursGate2 Member Posts: 994

    Amanda's Letter should have no downside period. It's the same what wraith has, without any penalty.

  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893

    Honestly her base kit as it is, is pretty much good I don't want them to mess around with it too much just look at Billy.

    Increase her base Crouch movement speed.

    Rework how jigsaw box skill checks work even make them more difficult naturally or allow the killer to build synergy builds that does so.


    Aside from those two changes there's not much I would say needs to be done to Pig.

    I'm just worried if they try to implement a cooldown or a recharge system for her

  • Pryzm
    Pryzm Member Posts: 393

    Amanda's addons are lackluster, to say the least. Not sure what the point is in temporary bleed effects, or my personal favorite, blindness. Oooh, you can't see auras with the rbt on......wait, I did not run aura perks, so I just can't see a slugged/hooked survivor. Oh well. Blindness is the dumbest debuff in the game and if you add it to an addon, it should be a low tier 3k addon. I have piles of those things sitting around because they are pointless to use.

  • bingbongboi90
    bingbongboi90 Member Posts: 576

    Yeah Amanda needs An add-on rework. O yes she also needs a cooldown on her Dash.

  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893


    I guess it's just me personally but I love the idea of Amanda's letter transforming Amanda from a stall killer to a pure ambush based killer.

    Honestly I think it just needs to be tweaked so it reflects that quality even if basically take away from her stall and majorly buff her ambush.

    Increased aura reading is one thing

    But also increasing the movement speed when you're crouched can be something else.

    If you power up the ambush enough it will be more worth the downside of losing tribes but turn Amanda into a pretty dangerous stealth killer.


    Basically in a similar way to how scratched mirror turns Myers from a snowballer into a jumpscare ambusher

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    I guess? The with that is that you'd have to thread a very careful line of buffing her ambush enough to make it worth losing all the stall potential she has while also making sure you don't go overboard and make it too hard to escape Pig in a chase.

    Also, Scratched Mirror Myers is another one of those add-ons that only really works in-doors, so I wouldn't call that really something to use as a good example.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,987

    The one cooldown I'd accept on her would to be to slowly regain a trap over time once it is removed from a survivor. Imagine that back before EGC crushed her late plays! Plus survs would know she very likely has one more trap just for them.

    As this change would both let her know when a trap is removed and make carrying another trap from the get-go unnecessary, those add-ons could be easier reworked as well.

  • Customapple0
    Customapple0 Member Posts: 629

    IMO having bear traps be deadly is the wrong way to go. With certain add ons and RNG Pig can effortlessly get kills.

    It would be a lot better if the reverse bear traps had a direct effect on the survivor until they get the helmet off. For example reduced (-20%) action speed? The boxes auras aren’t visible to the survivors until a generator has been completed.

  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893

    The box is not being visible until a generator is completed is incredibly bad because it makes survivors who wants to complete a generator instead of forcing them to stall out.

    Also if you actually read the post I put down you would see that I want tampered timer to be changed for that exact reason as with RNG it makes it practically impossible to survive if you're unlucky.

    Also chunking on ridiculously annoying amount of action speed penalty is not a good way to go either just look at forever Freddy it made the game actively boring and unfun to play.


    I feel that survivors should be free to pull risky plays like working on a generator with a reverse bear trap on if they so choose however there should also be a risk at not taking off the trap and to make a risky you have to make the traps actually feel threatening

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871
    edited July 2020

    I feel that survivors should be free to pull risky plays like working on a generator with a reverse bear trap on if they so choose however there should also be a risk at not taking off the trap and to make a risky you have to make the traps actually feel threatening

    That definitely makes sense, but currently I feel like the risk of working on a generator instead of going for the boxes is not high enough unless you use very specific add-ons to make the odds of dying to the RBT higher. Currently the fire being lit under trapped Survivors is very small, despite the fact that the penalty is straight-up death.

  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893

    Don't worry I definitely agree with you the rest should definitely be higher if you want to pull off a move like working on a generator with a reverse bear trap on you shouldn't have an easy ride in fact you should feel more pressure than people who are already searching boxes.


    I personally I think that the options should be there yeah but having an active travel and definitely needs to be a massive threat.

    This way and actually discourages that specific action unless you have a plan in mind if you don't go in with a plan you could end up potentially getting yourself killed