Any ideas on how to buff Amanda ( The Pig )
If you could buff Pig how would you buff her?
Comments
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I would revert her to pre 2.7.0 and make EGC stop/slowdown when a trap is on survivor + I would probably remove any sound cues from her ambush attack.
If I were to go deeper, I would rework her and repurpose her power.
- Survivors start the trial with active RTB on their heads.
- Death timer - 3 minutes.
- Every time a generator is completed, 2 minutes are added to the death timer.
- Timer does not stop under any circumstances, unless gens are finished.
- When generators are finished, RBT timer stops and becomes inactive if the survivor is in chase.
- When Exit gates are powered, Jigsaw boxes are manifested in the trial.
- Interacting with any Jigsaw box would allow to remove RBT
- Survivors can perform 2 kinds of interaction: slow and fast one.
- Slow one is performed for 15 seconds, has 3 skill checks and is safe.
- Fast one is performed for 2 seconds and damages the survivor by 1 health state once he finishes the interaction.
- Once survivor has finished interacting with Jigsaw box, it disappears.
- Secondary power: Ambush&Crouch
- Crouching is instant and crouching speed is 95% by default.
- Terror radius slowly fades away in 2 seconds.
- Ambush attack becomes available after 2 seconds of crouching.
- Ambush attack is performed in 1 second and has no roar cue.
- Ambush dash range is 16 meters at 6 meters/second speed.
- Hitting a survivor with ambush attack when he is interacting with an object would allow you to grab him.
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-Change the way RBTs function during the endgame so that they work similarly to pre-EGC update (though I would still make them not trigger if the Hatch is closed, and I would pause the EGC timer while someone's wearing a Trap)
-Delay the ambush roar to reduce the amount of telegraphing
-First box is auto-fail
-Add-on pass
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She should get down faster.Secondly the roar should start after it has started.& First box just Fails 100%.
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If i read this right then the survivors have no choice but to rush gens to stay alive. Which is exactly the opposite of her power design.
My thoughts
3 minute base timer
Traps active upon placement.
Gens that get finished remove 30 seconds from the timer
Timer pauses while slugged or hooked or within 16 meters of the pig
Unlimited traps or at least up the base number
Add on for global roar sound and one for no sound
Blindness base for traps
Dashing can vault pallets
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No slowdown while uncrouching. So survivors cant just leave the loop with a 20m lead
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Make her crouch move speed slightly faster.
Otherwise I wouldn’t change anything else personally, I feel like her weaknesses are really only the same as every other M1 killer and that’s an issue with the game mechanics, not individual killer powers.
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Her stealth ability and ambush attack needs to be buffed. Also she needs an addons rework. Other than that she's in the good spot.
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I want her traps to feel like "take this off or you die" and not "take all the time in the world. Reduce the timer to 2 minutes flat.
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For me I wouldn't change anything to do with her ambush attack. I wouldn't change her roar since it's a good bait to use on loops.
I remember seeing a while ago a discussion about her having 3 types of traps which I found pretty cool. If not something like this then I'd give her a pire add-on rework. Her very rares are extremely strong so they kinda need changed and I think give her more ambush add-ons. If people want to hide the roar that bad it could be one of her very rares.
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Biggest thing needed is an add-on pass. Several add-ons are useless/counter productive to her playstyle. Having a survivor with a beartrap be exhausted is useless, you don't want to chase them, as an example.
For her power, the general buffs to her dash (no/less sound), and less RNG for her Traps. Keep all the stats the same, but lower RNG on removing traps. By default, each of her 4 traps would get a number from 1-4, with no duplicate numbers. No one can see the numbers on the traps. A trap with 4 will take 4 boxes to remove, a trap with 1 will take 1 box to remove, ect. Change her add-ons so that there will always be the same amount of Boxes and Traps no matter what you run.
Other then that, I think she would be fine.
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Delay Ambush sound cue, maybe change crouch speed and how fast TR shrinks/grows coming in/out of stealth.
Revert RBT changes to 2.7.0, as well as fix BP values for it (you get less BP for a RBT kill than a normal sacrifice).
Change addons- fix or replace useless ones (Rule Set No. 2), add more for the Ambush attack, make RBT status effects last a short/moderate/long duration after taking RBT off.
First box is an automatic fail, but it can be used again after doing a 2nd box (in case the first had the key).
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I mean, yeah, that's why I said "repurpose". Instead of slowing survivors down, traps are going to psychologically pressure them with that slowgoing timer.
So Pig in nutshell is going to be a budget always crouching ghostface with EGC with extra steps. I would certainly love to see that at least as an addon, maybe balanced a bit more
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Increase her speed while crouched to 100% (Spine Chill counters it anyway, and she doesn't have an insta-down from it. So I think it's fair. Debatable if it needs to be 100%, but it definitely needs an increase)
Each RBT has two keys, placed randomly in boxes around the map. Both keys are needed to open the RBT.
Re-work her addons so that they don't just provide more skill checks. And maybe one that makes the person broken.
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Rework her and remove the RBTs in favor of something else.
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- One Jigsaw Box spawns in the basement
- The first Jigsaw Box searched will never have your key
- Traps can kill at exit gates during the EGC, but ANY Jigsaw Box will remove your trap during the EGC
- Survivors with inactive traps cannot see the aura of Jigsaw Boxes
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Not the easiest thing to do in the world, considering that the Reverse Bear Trap is arguably the single most iconic trap in the SAW franchise.
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The first one is okay. Second, doesn't make any sense because each trap is LINKED to one box not multiple. Third, why would you want that? Four, okay so you also "rule no.2" as base kit too.
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And it's also one of the single most oppressive abilities in terms of tunneling. Not that nobody else can do it, like RN Leatherface still can, but they're apparently trying to remove strong hook camping and stuff with the way they're changing Leatherface and Billy to not allow them to rev forever.
Pig, at least after Leatherface gets his infinite rev removed, is going to be the most toxic killer to face just simply due to the fact that she can just shut one person down and tunnel the hell out of them and not let them get their bear trap off. It's already bad enough she can crouch which removes the possibility of Borrowed Time.
I'm not saying it's the most effective strategy but I can't help but groan when I see I'm going against a Pig, because I know more than likely if I go down once I'm done for because Pigs never want to leave me alone when I have a trap on my head. It's not fun to go against, or engaging, and it allows for super scummy play. They nerfed PH's ability to tunnel as effectively in a hotfix so IDK why they can't do something like that for Pig. Anything to make her less annoying to go against.
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TBH i would just get rid of the root that she has when she uses her ambush attack.
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An Addon pass... give her addons that increase crouch movement speed, faster TR reduction when crouching
Bring her TR back to 28m
(joke incoming in 3..2...1) Make her RBT's activate at 50% gen repair
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From what I recall, the box that is chosen to open a given Trap is randomly determined when you slap that sucker on. In theory, you can simply make it so the box is chosen after you successfully search any box and will choose between the remaining boxes.
It's such an inefficient strategy that I can't see why they would go out of their way to rework an entire Killer just for that. At least with Bubba and Billy, the solution is pretty straightforward. Not so with Amanda.
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I just said that it's not about the efficiency. It's about the fact that it's got the capability to be used in a toxic as hell way. It needs to be worked on or scrapped. Doesn't matter that it's not efficient. Neither is spending a bunch of time trying to get somebody tormented and then walking across the map and sitting on a cage, but they still changed something like that, even if not all players did that.
Funny thing you mention Bubba and Billy as well. As if they're not getting reworks.
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Survivors can’t see boxes
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Add a second to the duration of ambush. Bam huge but simple change.
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- Make Amanda's secret base kit.
- Change traps so they aren't RNG anymore. You have 4 traps, each one requires a different number of boxes to open. So your traps always work like this:
- 1 trap requires 4 boxes
- 1 trap requires 3 boxes
- 1 trap requires 2 boxes
- 1 trap requires 1 box.
- If you use addons to get extra traps, the extra traps require 2 boxes.
- The order the traps get applied is random.
- This means that you always get the same number of boxes searched, on average. So you don't get 4 traps that require 4 boxes, or 4 traps that require 1 box. It smooths out the RNG.
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I mean they wouldn't really change anything because her power actually rewards you for not tunnelling. You are wasting your time as Pig if you constantly chase the guy with an RBT on his head. He has to take the time to get it off, when you could be chasing someone else. I get that not all Pigs do that, but it is the reason the timer doesn't tick down if you're in chase.
But just to clarify as an avid Pig player myself: having an RBT on your head doesn't give you invulnerability. So many people think this. If I see you, and don't know where other survivors are, I'm going to chase you. Just like any other killer.
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1st box 0% chance then each increases 33% (25% with 5 boxes) to be correct
a small and simple buff
edit; numbers were off
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I’m surprised to see people want the sound removed from her ambush attack as that sounds like a huge nerf to me. The growl she makes is great for mind games and making people vault into you.
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I wouldn’t want her buffed at all. I think she’s perfect already...one of my go-to killers when I feel like just annihilating survivors...plus, super fun.
No changes necessary.
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A cool down bar would buff pig 😉
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Her crouch should be just a tough faster and her ambush miss cooldown should just be a touch shorter. This if nothing else.
Now, id also remove the growl or at least have it be shorter so less of a warning.
Her rbts need more consistency. Right now the key can be in box 1-4, id make it so theres 5 boxes and tge key is in box 3, 4 or 5. They'd have to change it so its rng instead of how it is now but this would be better
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Maybe give the Jigsaw-boxes an additional effect, Jigsaw puzzles were always something where you have to injure yourself to ‚value life‘ and don’t die (saw your foot off, go through barbed wire etc): something along the line of giving the Deep Wound effect after getting your RBT off. Or something else or randomly one of multiple effects.
also start at first Jigsaw box with smaller (not 0) chance and increase the chances.
make not all Jigsaw boxes visible but only one at a time or in radius around survivor.
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Make rule set Number 2 base and make her bear traps less RNG dependant.
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The efficiency does matter because the efficiency of cheesing the timer with the Pig is substantially less so than just camping the hook as Billy/Bubba or running to the cage as Pyramid Head. You may as well just save yourself the trouble with cheesing the RBT and just camp the hook instead. Like, it's just a phenomenally bad strategy.
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The sound makes the attack heavily telegraphed. The reason you mindgame with the ambush is that you have to since they hear it coming a mile away. All it's good for is hoping the Survivor screws up, which is not the hallmark of a good power IMO.
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I'm all for increased speed while crouching.
Otherwise, I like her as is. She seems fairly balanced to me. Her traps are just meant to slow the game imo, so when I do get head pops it's like "Oh how nice."
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- Top priority is a complete add on overhaul. Give her add ons to improve the ambush, and move debuffs from 'trapped survivors' to 'survivors hit by ambush.' Rework all of the Jigsaw box add ons to something more useful like +search time AND +skill check fail penalty, it has to be something that tangibly increases the effectiveness every time, not only skill check penalty, and certainly not this rubbish skill check odds that can improve the search time for survivors.
- Move the ambush roar to when she completes the channel, or at least halfway through. It's an ambush so should not come with "I AM ABOUT TO AMBUSH YOU NOW, GET OUT OF THE WAY."
- Adjust the rules of RBTs to have some impact in the endgame. It was the original version of her power that was most thematically relevant to Saw, a trap that keeps people in the game and keeps them pressured. I believe it should PAUSE the EGC as long as someone has a trap on, because the game's still going and ######### can still go down. Having them simply stop working is ridiculous for a power with only 4 charges anyway.
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They are nerfing every decent potential killer pig is in the best state please don't ask for changes plz I beg yee..
She will get a cool down we don't want that she's fine as she is
🐷💖
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No more piggy nerfs we was stealth nerfed by boops! Don't allow her to be changed her dashes are map dependant her traps rng based end game no longer exists even skill check piggy is dead... Leave her alone.. No buffs no changes.. I fear the worst if you guys keep pushing this 🐷
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No it doesn't matter. It simply doesn't. At least not to BHVR. Otherwise you wouldn't see them changing PH even though camping a cage wasn't an efficient way of playing.
And that whole "You may as well just save yourself the trouble with cheesting the RBT and camp the hook instead." thing is exactly what I mean. You can RBT somebody, crouch and stick near them while they're on hook, and just continuously pester them any time they try to get their trap off. You're not doing anything but bolstering my point by bringing that up. If they are going to continue their trend of removing toxic stuff like easy camping, then Pig definitely needs to come soon.
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I think you're forgetting the fact that you don't have to be "in chase" with somebody. In fact, I don't think you CAN be in chase with somebody while you're crouched. Maybe you are rewarded for not tunneling, but that doesn't change the fact that you can still just harass the hell out of one player and ruin their game, which I'm pretty sure is something that BHVR isn't okay with. They hotfixed PH just because some people played him in a scumbag way, so why shouldn't they do the same to Pig even if not all players play her like that? If they want to remove things just based off the potential to be toxic, then Pig needs to be soon as well.
Nobody said anything about being invulnerable. I think you know exactly what playstyle I'm talking about if you're a Pig player. Nobody said anything about invulnerability here, we're talking about a piece of ######### Pig who doesn't do anything but just chase people with a trap on their head.
It's funny how I've gotten comments on the efficiency of the playstyle, but that's not what it's about. It's the fact that she can play like a complete douche and nothing stops her, not even a small hotfix to change one or even two small things about her power, like they did to PH. They could make her traps pause based off distance to Pig instead of being in chase so they couldn't just prowl around people with a helmet. They could make it to where the progress gets set back a little bit every time Pig harasses the survivor, so they couldn't just keep getting knocked off a box and bullied to the point where their helmet makes their head pop. There's a bunch of small things they could do to make Pig less insufferable but they've left her in her stupid state for a long time. At this point since I'm convinced they don't want to change the power itself in a good way, I'd rather just have them remove the god forsaken thing and just give her a completely new ability that isn't toxic and has more options, rather than the "set and forget" RNG-based traps she has.
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Its a good idea overall, but you don't wanna make timers pause while Pig is in range. Remember we had a patch that did that and it broke her cause it was a HUUUUUUUUUGE tracking perk basically.
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Finally some folks actually express issue with The Pig. I dunno how to fix her but my complaint is her RBT seem pointless other than waste gen time. Because I myself have never got a survivor killed with RBTs I only give them sacrifices to the entity. And I'll add, her Mori kill is boring to do.
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Amanda Changes
Reverse Bear Traps
- Once the Exit Gates are powered, Reverse Bear Traps will automatically become active without the need of generator completion.
Ambush
- Ambushing an occupied survivor will automatically grab them.
- Completely remove the audible "ROAR" warning during the Ambush charge up — survivors will only hear Amanda after she commits to the Ambush.
- Movement speed increased to 100% during crouch.
Endgame Collapse
- Timer will pause when a survivor is wearing a RBT.
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What you're missing is that PH cages negates both BT and DS, meaning camping with him was actually extremely strong. They HAD to hotfix it, because all the tools survivors had to stop camping were irrelevant. No BT hits. No DS stuns. You just get hooked again and you're dead. Pig RBT's don't do that, so this whole point of her tunnelling someone with an RBT is basically the same as face-camping the hook with any other killer. Still at risk of hitting someone with BT, still at risk of being DS stunned. No one can do anything about it, there's no real way to stop it from happening, just suck it up for one game and move on. Scummy players will be scummy players.
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#1 Make her immune to Spine Chill (this goes for all stealth killers and never should have been removed from tier 1 Myers)
#2 Crouch to stand and vice versa should be on par with the speed of Ghostface
#3 Reverse bear traps have to be removed otherwise the exit gates and hatch will be deadly
#4 If a survivor removes their trap, any other survivors currently wearing a trap gets a percentage of remaining time left cut short
#5 Remove gens as the catalyst to start the trap timer and give Amanda the ability to manually trigger the countdown
#6 Increase her stun audio by about 20% because I still think it’s one of the most adorable things in the world. Seriously though:p
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I really like this. Honestly it makes sense for them to already start the map with the traps on their heads from a lore perspective.
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As far as I'm aware, being put in a cage and not rescued at all takes the same time to sacrifice you as if you were put on a hook and the same thing happened. Only difference is as you said, in a cage you don't get BT or DS but he has to walk over to come camp you. Either way, the counterplay is the same. Do gens and get out. As I said, against PH nobody has to come unhook if it's dangerous and he's just camping there. Do gens. On top of that, you have to let yourself get tormented for that to even happen in the first place.
No, they didn't have to hotfix it. No, as Pig you don't risk somebody you hit having BT because you crouch and remove your terror radius, which cancels out the BT. Either way it doesn't matter in the slightest whether they have BT or DS or whatever 2nd chance perks they want, because if their helmet activates at any point and you know where they are, they're absolutely screwed. You don't have to initiate chase with them, you can just be near them and constantly pressure them to the point where their head just pops. It's like a slightly less effective version of the old Legion, where he could kill you just through the bleedout bar and following you facing backwards. There's nothing the survivor can really do to stop the killer from doing it and they're pretty much just on a timer to die. It's not even about the efficiency of it toward "winning" the game, it's just completely boring and pointless to play against.
You talk about PH not giving you a chance to escape, but you don't want to admit that Pig can essentially do the same thing. She still has to eat a DS here and there, sure, but as mentioned before it doesn't matter when she can just constantly patrol around where you are and never let you touch a box until your timer runs out. You even admit it's essentially the same thing as face-camping the hook with any other killer, so why are other killers being discouraged from camping while Pig gets to keep her capabilities?
By your logic, I could just tell you to "suck it up for one game and move on" too. They didn't need to fix the PH issue, because "scummy players will be scummy players" right? It's the same problem. Just because it's on a character you like more/hate less doesn't mean it's any less of a problem.
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Give her the current Ruleset number 2 by default and rework the addon
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In general interesting. Not too sure how I feel about survivors being incouraged to genrushing from a killer power. But it is certainly interesting.
When you say Timer stops only when gens are finished. Do you mean all gens? And if not all gens, then how long does it stop?
I dont think they are gonna remove the roar cue, since it is a reference to the movies. But they could move it so its mid animation instead of before she even dashes. But yeah there is no way the grab thing + dash + no cue at all would be balanced. Easiest kills in my life that would be.
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