Spirit has too much feedback during phase walk.
Really simple concept here, The Spirit gets two dimensions to her audio, while survivors get one (and maybe a second if footsteps are present, but those are nearly impossible to use).
In phase walk, The Spirit hears completely normally. Survivors only get feedback that The Spirit is phasing through a phasing sound, which reveals little to no whereabouts of The Spirit.
Devs, just curious, why does The Spirit get 2 dimensions to her audio during phase when survivors get 1? I'm not even an entitled survivor main, I think The Spirit would just require actual skill if she had non-directional hearing instead of the simple "Ah, they're to my left and about this far away" that occurs. As an ex-Spirit main, I got bored of her because she was so easy to play.
Can we atleast try a PTB with The Spirit getting non-directional hearing? I feel that would even the playing field when playing as/or against her. And this isn't something new, I've thought about this since her official release (thank you for removing directional phasing sounds, though. That was needed), and wondered why she got so much information while survivors didn't.
TL;DR
Please try a PTB with The Spirit's hearing not being omnidirectional. I would like to see if that makes her more fair to play against. Volume would still determine survivor's distance, but you can't get the powerful ability of the direction. That's on you to find out as The Spirit.
Comments
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Eh are you sure about that, I'd say her one problem is that survivors dont get enough feed back with her and it just turns into a guessing game, shes not fun at all to play against. And new billy isnt fun to play since you brought him up, they should remove or rework how the overheat mechanic works.
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Give me a break, her only basekit inputs are noise and scratch marks. Her UR addon removes one of those, leaving her with just sound
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I don't care for the billy nerf, although everybody seems to revolt, I never liked billy. But I'm saying she either needs to provide more information during phase walk, or she should get less. You shouldn't be getting twice as much audible information as survivors. Although I love her aesthetically and such, her power is absolutely unbalanced and no skill required.
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Sorry? I want her to be fun to play? Is that what you want to hear? She is literally so boring and braindead to play right now. Hell, maybe she should have 115% if her hearing is no longer directional. But her basekit inputs during phase are DIRECTIONAL hearing and scratch marks. Survivors get audio cues, but nothing directional. I don't care if she can hear survivors, but she should not be able to track them down instantly with two dimensional audio if survivors get zero to one dimensions.
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In a previous thread, I recommended they make use of her alt ability more, allowing her to force a fit of passive phasing, although that's not very passive then. But I think that she could use more than her phasing and make her phasing less of a pain for both sides. Possibly have an alt ability where she creates multiple bodies for a moment that walk in different directions. Just be creative. But right now, her phasing is so incredibly boring for both sides. As a Spirit main (used to be until Oni), she is too easy. As a survivor against her, you get no information.
So I reckon they either add input for survivors, such as an occasional frame of where she is in phase, or they remove some of Spirit's input. That's all. She's just highly unbalanced when put into logical analysis.
Also, without omni directional hearing, you have to use trial and error with your ears to find survivors. Not a mental map that is oh so easy to complete. Instead, you have to make that input in your head.
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I hope they dont do that. i am colorblind, and cant neither see blood nor scratch marks on most maps (on some maps, i cant even se generator and hook auras). Spirit is one of the few killers i can play against those swf 10 ranks higher than me and get some success, because i dont have to rely on her scratch marks.
IF you find her too easy, dont use her. For others, she is one of the few options.
If this game ever has a solid matchmaking, my opinion might change, but i dont think we get one.
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I'm sorry what are you trying to say?
I should think a good power rework for her could be something along the lines of making her phase more of a "catch up" ability and offer a new alt ability that is more useful during chases and requires more skill.
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That was not a nerf. That shouldn't have existed in the first place.
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i mean, this could easily be fixed if the devs just put in options for color blind people
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That's on the devs for not optimizing for colorblind, which I think is VERY necessary for them to do but they have weird priorities sometimes.
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Ah I understand, that would be very interesting for sure. Her add-ons would probs work with it oddly, I like the idea though. That could definitely work. I'd like to see it be tried!
Also, this may be a ridiculous idea, but possibly for survivors to get better input, she could maybe, when standing still or beginning to phase, emit the vacuum noise regardless. Non-directional sound emitted, BUT it does change in volume depending on how close she is to you. I feel like that could also be a slight, aesthetically improving effect. Sorta like Deathslinger's chainbreaking sound, but only depending on how close you are to The Spirit, and thus a quick death. That would offer more feedback for survivors, but not the same amount. Idk I'm tired now and I may be going crazy from time on the forums.
(This wouldn't remove the mindgame entirely for phasing, but when standing still and not phasing, they can still hear phasing sounds, they're just being emitted from where she is and thus static, but if survivors move around, her phasing sound will adjust even if she isn't)
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Maybe I'm missing something, but what is 'two dimensional' hearing? What sound cue does she get that survivors don't?
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Spirit is a ghost and ghosts can hear
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She doesn't op is upset she can hear survivors on her left and right when phasing.
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Survivors getting vacuum noises and nothing else.
Spirit gets a speed boost, scratch marks, environmental cues, and injured survivor noises. Pretty much there's no escape or reaction. Only counter is iron will and walking a bit then standing still. But you're still bleeding and by then she's still on top of you. She's the invisible Nurse.
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Let's just delete every killer and make some 115% powerless abomination so he'll be fun to play against.
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Run Spine Chill or Iron Will, or walk instead of run. Being injured is always a bad idea, Spirit is there to emphasize that point.
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Stridor makes one of the few perk counters useless.
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Two dimensional, she gets X and Y coordinates from audio basically. She can tell distance, and direction. Survivors can hardly hear either if any at all.
Maybe even 3D is better term since XY and Z are at play.
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Ha Ha Ha, you had me a good laugh there.
It was fun! I am waiting for more clever jokes next time!
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Nobody on the forums can take anything seriously, huh? Jesus, this is why this game is still a fiasco, nobody in the game can ever be good enough to realize that their favorite killer is overpowered and unbalanced.
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Yes, a fiasco that keeps growing.
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So the solution is to gut them..as long as survivors have a good time nothing else matters..the dark times proved it didnt it?..seriously every "solution" only helps survivors..and I'm tired of it..billy has me weary of this bs
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Sadly I reckon I'm contributing with my ideas, but I ONLY put these out in hopes of balance. Not making survivor insta-win, not making killer insta-win, just gathering what I know with near 3K hours and wanting to make the game better to play for all. I don't know why I bother, I get absolutely brutalized either way.
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Yes actually makes no sense that she can see scratchmarks during phase walk, she is strongest than Legion and they can't even see blood during feral frenzy (a dead killer with a dead power) I mean what why?
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This is not gutting her? It's making Spirit require skill, would you know what it feels like? Her power is BRAINLESS to use at the moment and not even fun playing as her. I know that people want to protect their braindead killers at all costs, but at rank 1? That power becomes an absolutely disgusting thing to play against. As her? A guilty pleasure. But I don't want her to be so awful. I love The Spirit but her power needs a slight change. Not to be gutted. Phase walk would still be powerful for those who can be skillful. Sounds like somebody doesn't know how to.
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Fine, make it so that Spirit hears survivors grunts and footsteps omnidirectionally instead of directionally. Now we have a Spirit player who can't see survivors, their blood spots, can't touch them, and can only hear that they are in an area, but is otherwise completely unable to pinpoint where while phasing. Aside from moving across the map faster, at what point in this scenario, would using her power be any benefit to her? Even worse, If the survivors are using Iron Will, a perk that's already a bane to her, It just became the number 1 "Perk 2 Win" against Spirit, since she won't even know an injured survivor is in the area.
Adding this to Spirit, a killer who primarily hunts by sound (in a game that frequently has sound issues every other update), would mean that she has to exit phasing to give chase normally, and since she moves at 4.4 m/s, she would be the worst killer to play. Have you ever played Hag, Huntress, Deathslinger, or Spirit, and just said "I'm not using my power today, because I want to see how much more of a challenge it will be to chase down survivors, and M1 them at lower than average speed!"? I can tell you right now, if anyone has done it, they just played the worst killer in the game and they know it.
So many people argue that Spirit takes no skill, but they are flat out wrong, and likely haven't tried playing her themselves. Hunting by sound, and prediction is much more challenging than most realize, not to mention survivors HAVE ways of juking her while she's phasing by taking advantage of the fact that she can only see their scratch marks, and has to rely on hearing them, so using perks like Iron Will, Urban Evasion, Quick and Quiet, Dance with me, or Fixated gives them heavy advantages against her, the rest is all in the mindgames. She has her mindgames, but can be mindgamed back just as easily, and IMO, the only reason people complain is because they don't even try to mindgame back which gives her the advantage.
OP, you're asking for her to be limited to using her power for Map Traversal only. At least until she comes into an area where she can hear survivors but can't pinpoint them, and then has to exit phasing in order to chase them at 4.4 m/s since using her power won't help at all during a chase. If this becomes the rout the devs take, then she'll need something to compensate, like 4.6 m/s base movement speed, the ability to see survivors scratch marks even when they aren't running, or see their auras while phasing when close enough, otherwise she'll be F tier at best... Although I assume that's what all the complainers are really after anyway, so writing this response is likely pointless.
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And how dies making her have to guess fix except make the 1 have less ability in chase than the 4?
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You. Can. Still. Pinpoint. It just takes trial and error, it's a game of hotter, colder. Getting closer? The volume increases on their moans. Getting further? Volume decreases. Although Iron Will counters her insanely too well, that's an entirely different issue. I think the game's perks create too much variety in balance and they are a mistake in some ways. But back to what I was saying. She becomes skillful. I really wish people here would understand that and be willing to put in time into a killer beyond 2 matches and suddenly they become a god. Spirit's strength is insanely high, but her learning curve is extremely low and the learning curve to counter her? Practically non-existent because you hardly can. And I mentioned buffing her speed in turn for this update to 115% on another post under this. But I appreciate the response. And yes, she would need something in turn for Iron will. Possibly increased base footstep sounds or even a noise emitted back to you from them, similar to a sonar-effect. But with her vacuum noise probably.
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Spirit is the only killer that doesn’t get punished for misplays with her power. She needs a post-phase fatigue after lunging.
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Ooooh I'm not gonna say that's the thing. But I understand your point. But that's definitely not a good idea for her IMO. I think that might be too much, but the thing is misplays with her power are nearly impossible unless you are just really bad at her.
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Sorry, what?
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Sorry, how does making her have 0 feedback help except make the 4 as individual s as powerful as the 1 in chase..it cant work that wsy
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I'm guessing the 4 vs 1 is you referring to survivors versus killer? Well, first of all, she doesn't have 0 feedback. She still has volume. That in itself can be used to triangulate a survivors location. Although this may not be the precise solution to her, they should make the amount of feedback on both ends even IMO. Either give survivors slightly more feedback (Not what I think is the right move) or take away a bit of Spirit's. She will still be strong, just not extremely easy.
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No one is saying she's op. And people want changes, not nerfs. The nerfs she received didnt change the core problems with her.
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Thank you. That's exactly what I'm going on about.
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No, read the original post. It's about her getting the same amount of feedback as survivors, or almost.
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What would the skill be, guessing where survivors are? If you couldn't hear anything then her phase walk would be almost useless for anything other than moving fast
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The survivor should never be equal or above killer in chase..the gake collapses if that happens giving an indicator visually when her phase begins..that way survivors have to pay attention and the spirit needs to worry more of positioning is the way to go
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That add-on is bugged. It still shows her scratch marks.
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Once these survs get a bot killer, we won’t have to worry any longer. They can simply go to practice mode, pick the weakest m1 killer, and loop around a jungle gym for hours. There will be no need to be “bored”
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Cool selling point for spirit dude! Do not only be blind when you use your power but deaf too! Next up, tree man : sick power upon pressing m2 you transform into a tree who can not move! Nearly immortal unless 4 survivors lightburn you, you will, go up in flames and die.
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Deaf? Did you even read? I give up posting on forums, people read 2 words and interpret it to their own will.
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I obviously was making fun of it.
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Clearly, as all do, nobody stops to consider. Just comment a joke and carry on. That's why devs take this community with a grain of salt anymore.
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Because you want to gut the killer. I am tired of this "requires skill" to play. You know what? The people that put in hundreds of hours in order to master a skill on one of the few killers that required mechanical skill now all got screwed by reworks.
Spirit can be as easy to play as survivor is. There can be a killer that requires them to do a little bit more than to loop.
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This
A) isn't "gutting" her
B) isn't about billy
Take your strawmen to another post.
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How is removing audio NOT gutting her? She would be basically unplayable.
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Am I the only one who can clearly hear her footsteps while she is phasing, which makes her very easy to dodge?
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No you are not. otzcheats.com right?
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