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The proper way of fixing MOM
We know MOM is a kinda iffy spot, where we can't have it be easy to activate since it's strong, but in it's current state is way too unreliable, requiring players to completely throw the game just to get the stacks. Chances are if people just did gens instead of hunting MOM stacks they wouldn't need to tank that hit anyway.
People proposed several changes for MOM, where the most common one seems to be to reduce it to 2 protection hits. While this seems fine, I believe devs may be a bit scared of implementing it, so what I suggest is 2 protection hits and one unhook. Wohoo, put the pitchforks down, this is NOT how it worked in the PTB. In the PTB it was either protection hits either unhooks(so you could do 3 unhooks and activate the perk), my change requires exactly 2 protection hits and one unhook. This is a middle ground between 2 and 3 protection hits: more consistent than 3 protection hits, but harder than 2(basically replacing one protection hit with one unhook).
"But what if a survivor unhooks and immediately takes a hit? The perk will instantly gain two stacks". Yes, this is true and this was the main issue with the PTB MOM. However, the fix is really simple: add a cooldown of 5 seconds or so between gaining stacks. This way, when a survivor unhooks and gets hit by the killer right after the unhook it would still give one stack, not two. The cooldown could have been a solution to fix the PTB MOM too, since the main issue was being able to get 2 stacks instantly. So yea, either my version with 2 protection hits + 1 unhook or the PTB version, but with the cooldown could work fine, or at least are worth a test.
At the very least, keep it at 3 protection hits but remove that horrible drawback. It's not justified anymore with the current activation system.
Comments
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The proper way to fix MOM is to say you love her once in awhile, you ungrateful bag of (DUE TO THE NATURE OF THIS LANGUAGE BHVR HAS REMOVED THE REMAINING TEXT TO ENSURE YOU UNDERSTAND YOUR MOTHER KNOWS YOU LOVE HER, EVEN IF YOU DON'T ALWAYS SAY IT......BUT WE WOULD SUGGEST SAYING IT)
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There is no "proper" way of fixing Mettle of Man, given it's bonkers design and nature, but the best solution I'll vouch for is:
MoM
If you are not the Obsession: Gain the Endurance status effect after three protection hits. You do not enter the dying state when hit while Endurance is active. MoM resets after this occurs. Your on-hit sprint is reduced by 1 second and has 33% reduced speed.
If you are the Obsession: All of the above applies. You also move 6% faster when within 10 meters of one or more injured survivors and MoM is not fully activated.
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I had an idea for how to make it better: make any basic attack work for it like it originally was, but increase the required number of hits.
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I love the idea of MOM, but protection hits more often than not don't even register even if you're hugging somebody's 6 and the killer is right on both of you. That's what I'd fix first before looking at changing the perk.
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I made this topic in an attempt to fix a perk in a video game but I left with a life lesson. Thank you!
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make it 2 protective hits
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If you read my post, this was the base idea I used. However, to be sure it doesn't end up too strong, I suggested 2 protection hits + one unhook. Better than 3 protection hits, worse than 2.
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that is a brillinat idea or instead of 1 unhook heal 2 helth states
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An 'iffy' spot? LMAO. MoM is one of the worst perks out there. It's so situational with so many massive down sides and such a lot of work for what it actually offers and people wonder why nobody uses it?
Perfect example of killers /crying OP p2w and getting their way the same way Survivors did with PH.
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I stopped reading after "I stopped reading". If you will not make any effort to read the post and understand that the change I'm proposing is minimal then I'm not making any effort to read your post either.
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I also try to use a unqiue build for each of my Survivors.
I was going to use Mettle of Man on my guardian angel build for Adam, but Mettle of Man kept making me the Obsession when my goal was to protect the Obsession (not everybody) using perks like Blood Pact and Borrowed Time.
I did end up putting Mettle of Man on David along with We're Gonna Live Forever, Empathy, and Inner Strength. I start the match by looking for a totem to activate Inner Strentgh. I then work on a gen in the middle of the map, making it easier to reach Survivors who I see become injured with Empathy. I take the protection hit (and it successfully gives me a stack about 60% of the time), and move on to look for another totem. By the time Mettle of Man has activated, either all the gens are done or everyone has died. I am not worried about the downside of Mettle of Man because I have never gotten to experience it; I have only gotten protection from the perk twice and have never been able to heal up after for my aura to be visible.
It's a very broken perk not worth running.
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@Peanits, any chance you guys could look at MOM again? Maybe you could consider trying the change I proposed.
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All I know is I’ve never seen the perk used again since they updated it. Part of me remembers the frustration of missing out on a down but part of me was also stimulated by never knowing when MoM might come in clutch and completely ruin me.
It really does need a revamp some how, I think it had potential to be another fun staple perk for survivors.
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I would keep the 2 protection hit and a cooldown between hits but instead of another unhook, the perk should reset if you get downed with only 1 protection hit and then also reduce the speed when you get hit with endurance effect. Also activating MoM should make you become the obsession, rather then to just throw on the ''Increases the odds of being the Obsession''.
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I think the reset + obsession part could work, but not the speed reduction. Feels like too much of a downside, the idea is to keep the effect the same so it's worth trying to activate it, but somehow come with an activation system that's fair for both sides.
What's the point of the perk if that hit doesn't help in any way because of the speed reduction? You risk becoming the obsession, triggering rancor and other obsession perk just to tank a hit that won't help you in any way because you will just get downed 3 seconds later?
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MOM is fun to use at the moment much better than the BT DS DH UB combo I think it's find as it is after the protection hit buff
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The problem is that it's an endurance perk. Endurance perks can easily throw the balance in favor of the survivor (one guy with Borrowed Time changes the outcome of the endgame) so if they made it easier, we'd see the old spring 2019 scumbag survivor loadout where everyone basically has 3 health states + DS. I honestly think it should be erased and turned into a whole new perk, much like what happened to Left Behind.
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It still depends on how much it is reduced. I honestly think it should be reduced just cz the perk can give you 3 health states. The perk can still help you with taking another hit.
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Yes, but if the hit doesn't actually help(as in you don't get enough distance to do anything and die 3 seconds later, especially if the killer has STBFL) then what's the point in wasting time hunting for protection hits when that time could be used to repair generators and potentially not need to tank that hit?
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Idk. MOM synergizes well with Breakout now. Bring it with a sabo build, it works great.
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Never said it didn't have some synergy, but you shouldn't have to bring 3 other perks just to have a better chance of using MOM, that's bad design.
Post edited by Artick on0 -
Yeah, you may be right. But I don't think they will be changing MoM anytime soon. Ash's DLC is just a joke.
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Leave it as a dead perk. it was/still is a terrible design that should never have passed the idea stage. Survivors do not need any more free escapes that can be abused 10 fold with the 13 free perks given to you with swf + discord.
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If you put your killer main agenda aside for a second and look at this in a neutral way you'd actually see the change I proposed is minimal and doesn't make the perk much easier to activate. We shouldn't have dead perks in the game, each perk should be unique/fun/good.
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Yeah, I understand wanting a perk to work well by itself, but other than the Meta perks, most of them really do need a full build around what you want to do. Sure, some work better, but it still gives me great satisfaction when my anti-slug build pays off. Break Out builds can be difficult to pull off, but if you manage it, it can be a game changer. Metal of Man is just one of the perks that works better as a spice to top off a build that puts close to the killer and an injured survivor.
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I'd be fine with this.
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I believe the best way to make Mettle of Man decent, but not overpowered while keeping it's core effects is by making small changes.
[Step #1]
- Remove the aura reading penalty after a successful activation
After enough evaluation and time, we can follow up with step #2.
[Step #2]
- Change the condition to take 2 protection hits whilst the killer is carrying a survivor.
This should be enough to make the perk borderline fine, but more small changes may be necessary.
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I think Step #1 and #2 should be reversed. The reason is the main problem with the perk is the iffy activation system. It's like the "buff" they did some time ago where you can trigger the perk more than once. That's cool, but how that helps the main problem? It doesn't. And if you remove the aura reading and people don't use the perk because they can't activate it then there's nothing to observe and evaluate, devs won't know if their change is good or bad because it won't change anything.
It's better and safer to reduce to 2 protection hits/2 protection hits + one unhook and keep the aura reading, then if the perk is still bad remove the penalty.
@Peanits, any input? Are there any plans to improve MOM? Do you guys at least acknowledge it needs some work, even if there's no specific change planned?
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Maybe I should have made another post about nerfing dstrike or spirit, maybe then it would get more attention lol.
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It really looks like the devs run from MOM like from the Plague(no pun intended). No one asked for the old MOM back, everyone that ever talked about this perk at least wants you to acknowledge it needs changes and figure out a way to make it fun to use and balanced at the same time. I mean you can rework an entire killer power which has a lot of interactions, I'm sure fixing MOM wouldn't be so hard for the devs.
So yea, this is another bump.
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I like these ideas what you propose makes you have to do a good amount of work for the benefit. Makes it more skill based and consistent
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This. How am I only noticing this post now? I wouldn't mind some tweaks to make Mettle of Man slightly more accessible, but as it is now, it's a perk I run when I feel like making 5000 IQ clutch plays, since NO ONE expects you to actually have it.
I recently unlocked Ace and have decided to run meme perks on him, Mettle of Man being one of them. I get the dumbest grin on my face when the killer procs it and stands shocked.
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Someone actually made a very valid reply to the post you quoted, but for some reasons decided to delete it. Everything DudeDelicious listed there is basically "play bad and put yourself in situations you shouldn't ever be just so you activate the perk".
To elaborate, for example "take a hit while unhooking". Firstly, this doesn't grant a MOM stack, but even if it did, this promotes unsafe unhooking and hook rushing, which is a bad play.
Next, "take a hit while healing another survivor": you shouldn't ever heal in an unsafe place or heal when the killer is near. Again, this is playing bad.
Chasing injured survivors to potentially take a hit they may not need you to take is a waste of time because at least 2 survivors are not doing gens and injured.
I shouldn't be required to play like a rank 20 potato to make use of a perk. Plus, even if you ignore the obvious issue of having to play bad there is a big difference between all the theoretical things you can do and what actually happens in a game. Because of that, the perk is extremely unreliable to activate. No one that actually used the perk can deny that.
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The proper way is to not change it. you bought ash for the skin, not the perks.
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I'm sorry, what are you even talking about? Did you at least read the post or you just posted something for the sake of it?
First things first, you have no clue why I or anyone else bought Ash. Using this same logic, they shouldn't have reworked Freddy and let him be a terrible killer just because you all bought Freddy for the skin and to get to play as a horror icon, right, right? This argument is completely busted and honestly I have no clue how you don't see it.
Secondly, this is not about the fact that we bought Ash. This is about a bad perk that needs really small tweaks to be a bit better without making it much easier to activate. Again, if you read my post you would understand the change I proposed is very minimal. And if in your opinion the perk should remain bad would you say the same thing about a bad killer or about a bad killer perk? Or this argument of "let it be bad" applies only when it suits your agenda?
If you want to discuss further make sure you actually read and understand my reply and the original post.
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I guess I'm trying again to get a reply from you guys regarding MOM. I don't get why is it so hard to at least say something given you pretty much fixed Billy after the PTB in 2 weeks and it was a killer power + addons. I can't believe you can't fix or at least say something about a perk after months and months.
Are you planning to do any changes?
Do you want to change it?
Do you just not care?
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