Keys and Moris
I am sure we are all sick of this topic but I am gonna ask anyway. I know they both are strong but does anyone feel one is stronger than the other and why?
I only ask this because after MANY games this week and overall 1300 hours of game play I am seeing Mori's used 3 out of 5 matches and keys used 1 out of 5. The keys tend to get used in one of two situations it seems like. It is either for a challenge or someone searched a chest and stumbled on one. I have matches where 3 killers in a row bring a ebony mori.
I want to say CLEAR AS EVER, I THINK BOTH ARE OKAY AND HAVE THEIR PLACE!
I do however think that mori's personally are much MUCH easier to use than keys. The killers I have faced who bring them normally tunnel and kill fast. I have seen killers clear a match in about 5 minutes flat because it is one hook dead. I even had one game where we seen the survivor get moried so my team I guess decided to say screw it and if you got hooked they just left you there because they knew what was next. I never use mori's only because how strong they are plus I like to get as many points as possible so hate to kill someone only after one hook.
They keys though WHEN they are brought in not only take time you also need to hope you can rely on your team to help get enough gens done but, then you also hope you can find the hatch.
Please understand I am not saying one should stay and the other should go but just trying to be 100% honest in my opinion as a person who plays equally both sides. I kind of feel that mori's at least in my experience are used more because most the time the killer knows they will get to use it. Keys are used only in very certain situations because it takes a good amount of work to even use it. I like both and think they are both good things to have for a challenge.
I would like to hear others opinions and please keep it nice. Also please do not take my opinion personally and play anyway you like. =)
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Both are op and need to be reworked but moris are definitely stronger
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Thank you for giving feeback. I thought the same thing. I just am not sure how they can rework keys. I mean you already need to do 4 out of 5 gens then find the hatch. I mean you need to do at least 1 more gen then current survivors. The only thing I can think of is to make a timer on the hatch but then that can kick you in the butt. If there is a timer on using a key then if you are the last survivor and let's say the killer closes the hatch then you are as good as dead and might as well sit in a locker. I would like to see how they do it if they do. =)
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Moris are 100% stronger.
Moris are like what Keys would be if the hatch spawned after the 1st Gen was completed, even if they could only make the Survivor who used it escape.
A petty, personal, quick victory.
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I feel the same way but was afraid like always, people would assume I was a survivor main when in fact I play killer just as much. I just feel like Mori's are ways to make a game end fast when in fact a key can only be used at almost the end? I am not sure how a key is considered OP in the hands of solo survivor players like myself. I can understand them being OP in SWF teams who use them and all escape but, half the time if a key is in a solo que game only one person gets out anyway. Ebony Mori is OP no matter SWF team or Solo que game.
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Moris are stronger, but I see keys way more often personally.
I think they both have a negative impact on gameplay. Seeing a mori/key changes your playstyle for the worse. I hate seeing a key and knowing that I have to play scummy or just let people escape, or seeing a mori and knowing I have to rush gens to the exclusion of absolutely everything else.
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Both are a pain in the ass, but moris can end the game real quick and rob survivors of points. Especially with tunnelling. At least with keys you gotta complete all / most of the gens to be able to use it. And even then, there’s Franklin’s Demise. Survivors don’t have anything to counter a mori other than giving it their all to not get caught lol.
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Well I don't feel it changes your game play. I mean if I see a key I play the same way as I always do as a killer. I mean if they can get 4 out of 5 gens done and find a hatch they deserve it. I do see though what you mean and how it could change a killers play style for more of the scummy sense. I mean it may make a killer camp just to get a kill because other than that I am not sure how you could play scummy when someone has a key because the goal is still stop gens and kill.
When I play survivor and see a Mori I do not think gen rush because if you are at a gen most the time at least in my experience in solo que once a Mori is discovered people tend to hide and hope to find the hatch and be the last survivor. I end up being the one person doing gens and then getting killed. lol
I also find it interesting you are seeing keys more than mori's. It is interesting and probably because we are playing on different platforms. I personally almost never see a key or even use one because the chance of getting to ACTUALLY use it is slim. The funny thing is it is the opposite reason I do not use Mori's and why I have a big collection of them. It is because they are to easy to use.
Thanks for the feedback and your thought and opinion. =)
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You make a good point and I did not even think about that. Franklin's Demise is a good counter. I forgot about the two games I watched after I died and someone was forced to drop their key and did not even notice it was gone until it was to late. Then it is a good luck finding it situation. You are right the only counter to Mori is just don't get moried or caught.
I will say Mori however does not just rob survivors of points but also killers. If you kill the survivors so fast you lose valuable chase points and hook points and pressure points. I mean I have had games where I got many more points and the survivors escaped over a game where I MORIED 3 and 1 got away.
I just think and once again my opinion so just take it as a dumb persons thought but, I feel like people only want keys reworked because it is only fair if mori's get reworked but it seems to me we can all agree Mori's are stronger so how can we say keys are on the same level?
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Exactly. Mori’s can screw both sides over for points, depending on how the killer decides to play. With Franklin’s Demise being buffed now to completely destroy items, it’s gonna be even worse lol.
You get tunnelled into oblivion if a killer sees you have a key with you. So, I don’t really know what the answer is either way. I would prefer if ebony mori’s were only able to be used on death hook. And if they REALLY wanted to nerf the key, I’d say have it where only the survivor holding the key can use the hatch & it’s closed again immediately after they jump in.
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So as an example, playing a match of killer yesterday I saw that the survivors had a key but the person using it managed to avoid me most of the game (it was a Claudette, big surprise). I’d hooked the other three survivors twice so they were all on death hook, and in this time they had managed to complete 4 gens, but on the other side of the map so they left me with an easily defendable 3 gen. I downed one of the death hook guys and had to choose between killing him and potentially letting the other three escape through the hatch (I knew they were a SWF so this was likely), or playing around the key. So what I ended up doing was slugging the three dead on hook and chasing the guy with the key until I caught him. He ended up dying on his first hook and everyone else ate dirt. Not a particularly fun end to the match for them.
I really don’t agree that survivors finishing some gens and finding the hatch means they deserve to escape just because they brought an item. Maybe this is because I play low mobility M1 killers. I need to not camp or tunnel so I must hook everyone three times on rotation, and also defend gens, and then on top of that play around keys. I can’t kill anyone too early because that wouldn’t be fun, but if I kill someone too late the others can key out. I can’t fall back on a three gen but I don’t have enough mobility to patrol all the gens quickly. I’m supposed to not worry about gens popping early because it’s not the end of the match, but keys make it so it can be. I basically have to snowball and get everyone down at once, and survivors are the ones that allow that to happen.
And yeah, I don’t use moris or keys either. I personally don’t find it fun cutting the game short, and keys just get you tunnelled a lot of the time.
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I'm playing both sides and think both things are op. A Mori should just be usable when every survivor got hooked once, so the killer isn't tunneling a survivor off the hook anymore just for the Mori.
A purple key shouldn't do the exact same thing as a rainbow key. The purple one should just be for 1 person and the rainbow key for more person (or a timer should be added for how long hatch is gonna be opened)
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I will say you make a good argument but my counter point is the SWF thing. In a basic solo que, the way the game was intended and the way I play survivor even with a key I am lucky to get out let alone somehow organizing the others to follow. That would be a miracle in itself. I honestly think and it is probably dumb but it is because of SWF teams that keys are consider OP but in a basic solo que game Mori's still are just as strong as normal and keys cannot be an organized weapon because solo players cannot talk and plan. That is why I find keys OP giving the situation but Moris always are OP in any situation. I am also sorry you got stuck against SWF because I really dislike these players because they cause people to want nerfs making the game harder for us solo ques.
I also am with you and never use mori's are keys because I like playing the entire game. I like to use skill instead of a OH CRAP button. =)
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I agree to the Key idea but like I mentioned to the other person I kind of feel like Keys are only OP in SWF teams where they can be planned and used as a team. In solo que games it takes a miracle to get one even two out together let alone all four players. I mean if you can plan and get everyone out with a key and doing the gens and no mics you deserve to get out.
Now Mori's however are OP in any situation. They can be used against a SWF team as easily as solo que survivors.
Overall I feel Ebony Mori is OP in every game and Keys are OP with SWF Teams and just meh in solo que. I think SWF make keys look OP.
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Moris are fine, keys shouldn't spawn in chests.
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I agree and do no understand the difference in keys because not many people use them for any other purpose but the hatch. I will say though just as a thought.
Mori's are OP in every game no matter it be against Solo Que Survivors or SWF. Keys are really only OP when used in a SWF team because they can communicate and plan. Is the key really OP or the SWF that uses it?
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I like the idea of keys spawning because they are very rare anyway plus then the killer can't just tunnel that one person they seen bring one in at the start. It seems to happen a lot when someone brings a key in the killer tunnels them dead. I mean I do not blame them but I started using that perk that gives me rare items in chest just to find a key during my match so I could escape with my crown.
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I dislike the idea of keys spawning because it'd be like the killer randomly getting a Memento Mori mid-trial. There's no way you can prepare for random chance like that.
You didn't have to bring any particular perks or items to escape with crowns, BTW.
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You can't really prep for a mori no matter if the killer got it mid game or even just came in with it. All you can do is hope you are not the one that gets hooked once.
To the crown thing you are right about not needing a particular perk to get the crown but my teams because I play solo que smelled would spend most their time hiding because i would get new players. I would hope to find a key and only use it IF I needed to. I would do gens and hope my team would help. If they all got killed then hatch time and hope my perk helped me find a key and GET THE CROWN, SAVE THE TOWN AND MR. KRABS! lol
Also then the killer did not know i found a key and could just not tunnel me.
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You can't really prep for a mori no matter if the killer got it mid game or even just came in with it. All you can do is hope you are not the one that gets hooked once.
You're not supposed to be able to. That's why you can't see the killer. On the other hand, the killer is supposed to be able to prepare for items, and one as powerful as the key shouldn't spawn in chests.
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So you can't prep for a mori which is one hook your dead but a key that takes 4 gens and a escape hatch is to strong?
IS a key really that powerful? I mean I give it to you it can be in a SWF team who can strategize and abuse it but in a solo que best of luck. You are lucky in a solo que if one person can escape with a key. I am lucky that when I play solo que survivor instead of killer that IF I even have a key that I can make someone listen enough to follow me. In the end normally only one person escapes because no one knows to follow one another so even with a key only one person escapes. I do not call that OP. lol
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So you can't prep for a mori which is one hook your dead but a key that takes 4 gens and a escape hatch is to strong?
A mori is two chases and one hook, minimum, unless I missed an update where killers can get survivors on hooks without chasing them.
A key can be used at any number of gens, even if the killer has already closed the hatch.
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I just think the kill animation is neat. And i don't yet have teachable perks that give you kills like Devour Hope or rancor.
I usually use the Green one though. Red Moris are unfair
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I think the kill animation is cool as well but the mori's themselves are way to easy to use. One hook then tunnel and poof dead. I play killer more than survivor these days and will not use mori's because how easy it is to end a game with it. I do say though play however you like. =)
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They are both unfair but instead of take them away completely they can just make them very rare. Like once every 40th bloodweb rare. But yes people have lots in stock this is a problem. I have like 300 moris because I never use them.
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Most Mori users I have seen this week alone are a one chase, hook, then camp. If someone rescues them they smack them and Mori them. I am guessing you have had better luck in mori users but my experience is different. It normally ends with one chase one hook then a slug because the killer camped and a dumb survivor saved them and then a mori. In the end my experience with mori users is pretty toxic. They get the kill either way really.
A key can only be used if the number of gens done to spawn the hatch. The number of survivors alive + 1 generator. That means if all 4 survivors are alive you still need 5 gens. If 3 survivors left then you need 4 gens and so on. If you can manage to get the hatch to spawn and escape with all 4 you deserve it key or not. I mean if they get all 5 gens done and you have not killed one person that is on you not the key. Do not blame the key for the lack of skill. I would love to see a video where someone uses a key and all 4 people get out at only one gen done. lol
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Most Mori users I have seen this week alone are a one chase, hook, then camp. If someone rescues them they smack them and Mori them.
That can be countered: stop feeding campers. Don't blame the mori because someone else ######### up.
A key can only be used if the number of gens done to spawn the hatch.
The hatch can spawn and open at 0 gens because it always spawns and opens for the last survivor. It's been that way for quite a while now.
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They both can be handy to have...but a severe irritant to play against.
The thing about keys is that they're visible in the pre-game lobby. This gives the opportunity to equip Franklin's Demise for example.
There is some suspicion that a Mori has been equipped when the killer icon doesn't turn around on the match load screen, but it's not a definite confirmation.
A mori can be easily performed in certain circumstances: quickly hook a survivor, mildly camp the hook, the survivor is unhooked without BT, they get hit again...game over, thanks for coming. The survivor could of been waiting for a match for some period of time, and it's highly unsatisfying to be snubbed out early in the match with minimal effort.
A key can give a very good chance of escape if held/found by the final survivor. If the original key holder is sacrificed, another survivor can go to their hook and retrieve the dropped key. If the killer closes the hatch, they'll often go and patrol the gates. If the survivor is lucky, they can observe the hatch closure or find the closed hatch and simply reopen it and escape. This can be highly irritating for a killer who wanted that 4K or was going for some kind of achievement/challenge.
Both sides will often punish the other for equipping a key or a mori. A survivor holding a key will regularly be tunnelled and a killer who begins to unleash a mori could be subjected to 'toxic' survivor behaviour.
As a killer, if I notice an overly spicy squad appear in my lobby, I will occasionally equip an ebony Mori. But I'll just keep it up my sleeve and dish it out only to punish naughty behaviour.
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So now your point is to being the last survivor? Well you are right if you are the last survivor THEN the hatch will spawn but then do you really need a key if the hatch is already open?
I mean sure if the killer closes it but then as a killer I mean if you are that upset ONE person got away you need to take this game less serious. lol
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So now your point is to being the last survivor?
You were speaking of the bare minimum you needed to do as a killer to get a mori, so I did the same with the key. Is there a problem?
Well you are right if you are the last survivor THEN the hatch will spawn but then do you really need a key if the hatch is already open?
The killer can close the hatch, as you said.
I mean sure if the killer closes it but then as a killer I mean if you are that upset ONE person got away you need to take this game less serious. lol
I'm a survivor main. Haven't touched killer since I got the crowns for them, and even then it was one farming round each, just to get it over with ASAP.
Pro tip: Don't assume which side people play. It doesn't usually end well.
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Thank you for actually understanding. I agree with everything you said. =) If you can direct this to Orion maybe he will understand your points better. =)
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Pro Tip: Don't assume I assumed =)
You assumed that I assumed you were a killer main. I never assumed you were a killer or a survivor main. I spoke openly to any killer who plays and gets upset that one person escaped.
Also to your point you are right about survivors doing bare minimum to make the hatch spawn but how often do you see this situation compared to the mori situation? I can say I have never seen someone bring a key just to go hide in the corner and wait for everyone to die. You are using a far out example when a few others even point out how killers camp just to get the mori. I will say though your 0.0001% scenario has merit. It is possible even with how little of a chance it has to happen that a person will bring a key just to sit and wait for us all to die then find the hatch. I agree now to get rid of keys based off of this very unlikely scenario now. =)
I will simply agree to disagree on this one because we wont ever agree but I do see some merit to your points because I can admit to not being right. Have a good day and happy playing. =)
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You assumed that I assumed you were a killer main. I never assumed you were a killer or a survivor main. I spoke openly to any killer who plays and gets upset that one person escaped.
Yes, because it's standard practice to speak openly when you're talking with one person and responding to what they're saying.
Also to your point you are right about survivors doing bare minimum to make the hatch spawn but how often do you see this situation compared to the mori situation?
More often. Moris are rarely present in my trials, makes me wonder if it's a regional thing.
You are using a far out example when a few others even point out how killers camp just to get the mori. I will say though your 0.0001% scenario has merit.
I didn't realize you had statistical information about each situation. Please post your data so we can all look at it. Either that or admit you're claiming my scenario is unrealistic because it makes it easier to dismiss.
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I was not only talking to you but anyone that reads this. I double checked but I am pretty sure this is a forum for everyone and anyone to read.
I am also wondering now how different each game is and if it is not just regional but also the platform you play on. I play on Switch so that may be why my experience is apparently widely different than yours.
I did not claim it was unrealistic because even with that small of a percent it still makes it real. It just lowers the chance of it happening.
I want to say it was fun but gonna go play some games and hope you have good luck in your games as well. =) You made the start of my day fun and I like a good debate. Later my new friend! lol
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Keys: shouldnt Spawn in chest.
Ebony Mori: every survivor have to be hooked at least once before the offering can be activated. Everything else stays the same
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