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Remove Camping Advantages; Remove Hook Grabs
Killers get a one hit down at hooks. All of them. If they didn't have that, I wonder if they'd play the hook stand off game anymore.
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Removing hook grabs would make survivors just rush in for unsafe unhooks even more than they do now. Don't go for unsafe unhooks and work on generators to punish the camping killer.
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They're fine as is. The only time it feels a bit unfair is end game. But the killer should have some control over this at end game.
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If the hook is forever unsafe, then what? I believe part of the reason they made changes to Hillbilly and Leatherface was to de-incentivize camping. This is in the same theme they're already pushing.
Add grabs to healing to compensate. Death pays for life, y'know?
NOED does this. I'm pro-NOED as is.
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Ok.No!
Next entitled survivor main request, please!
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Why say "next" when you're just gonna completely ######### all over the next idea someone has because you think these ideas come from entitled survivors?
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Edit: it seems it was me who did misunderstand OP.
Post edited by Raptorrotas on1 -
No, because then survivors would bum rush hooks and you'd be unable to heavily punish it anymore. I don't camp often, usually I camp when I see multiple survivors coming for the save or a bunch of scratch marks around the hook.
Sometimes, as soon as I hook a survivor some idiot tries to unhook them immediately and I get a grab. Was I camping? No. Do they deserve to be hooked themselves for farming? Yes.
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with current Server instability, I have to ask, What are hook grabs? because I never get any.
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This would be a buff to camping killers as they wouldn't have to worry about getting DS'es after a grab
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I don't think he is asking for instant downs but to just remove the grab (see title) because it makes camping too strong or enforces it.
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Damn op is pro noed and a pretty big killer player but sure man.
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that's what BT is for
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Camping has a time and a place. Removing killers options and making everything survivors feel like doing completely safe would make lategame situations basically unbearable. There should definitely be high risk to unhooking right near the killer.
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The best camping killers don't even rely on hook grabs for camping so punishing all killers for the actions of a basement bubba doesn't actually make that much sense.
Remember most camp happy killers rely on their powers for downs/camping pressure.
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I don't even know what they are, I do massage the survivors sometimes tho.
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Yeah, going in for that sweet and sensual shoulder rub to make the survivor feel appreciated. 🤣
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So punish the killer not the survivor for trying to unhook 5 seconds after the hook is made?
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Can't recall the last time the game actually registered ANY of my grabs....I normally just end up standing there stuck in animation for a moment or two.
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Camping is an outright disadvantage
Camping ONE guy to death is enough time for 4 gens (5 with toolboxes/Prove Thyself)
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I just don't think you should depip if you get camped
Like, yeah of course I'm gonna have crap badges if the killer didn't let me play the game
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remove camping you say ?
Fine. If you all remove a sac state and start on struggle im fine with all the anti camp you want lol
Or better yet basekit irr mori
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Honestly, this. If you're not gonna punish killers for camping, survivors shouldn't be punished for getting camped.
Like, the person on the hook literally has no choice in the matter. You can't exactly counterplay while you're on the hook.
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A risk is something that can be reduced. A killer deciding to camp, definitively, refusing to chase an approaching survivor... definitively blocks the situation, and risk reduction is impossible for the survivors.
Forcing everyone to no longer have interaction with the other, having a killer doing nothing, survivors who only repair without any fear, and a survivor passing the whole game on the hook... does not seem satisfactory to me.
For various reasons, I ruled out this possibility for a long time. This is an exception (grab is possible almost everywhere, but... not there). However, there is already a tacit logic: survivors seem to be able to be grabbed when they are alone, when they perform an action alone. When someone uses a window, a pallet, a locker, opens a chest, a door, repairs a generator... But not when they perform an action with another survivor, as when they heal another survivor. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I've seen this before. Maybe it's technically possible, but in reality: it never happens. And then, even if it is not a very strong argument: it is coherent, the survivor would cling to the other, so he cannot be grabbed.
Another reason was: you have to keep the possibility of the killer being punitive in such a situation. However, it is still possible. Even without the ability to grab, the killer can still punish by hitting. Maybe I'm wrong, but if the survivor off the hook has a little moment of invulnerability during the action, it is not the case for the other survivor. He can still be hit. If not, it should be. The camping will therefore remain potentially very punitive for an injured survivor, or against a killer with the ability to instadown, otherwise the survivor will only be injured. It's still punitive, but less.
One argument in favor of this: Make Your Choice exists. More punitive in duration, but making the equivalent of a grab impossible... if the killer is camping. So why the grab on the hook, so free?
In short, it is an interesting idea worth considering. Very far from my usual radicality, this is a small change that can ultimately have good properties without causing too many harmful consequences.
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Most of the time when I get hook grabs I had enough time to position myself behind them, because otherwise it results in a hit. Survivor's shouldn't be rewarded for unhooking in front of a killer, because for me it's almost always someone I spotted directly after hooking. I think it's fine how it is.
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If the hook is forever unsafe, then what?
Then do gens.
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You can blame your fellow survivors for why this would never be implimented.
Because all internal tests by devs reveal that survivors will hook rush to punish the killer no matter the type of mechanic they try.
In this instance, survivors would simply give all killers the old OG Freddy treatment and unhook right in front of him at an exit gate and nothing you could do to stop it.
Post edited by DrDeepwound on2 -
"remove camper advantages"
Devour hope, borrowed time, decisive strike, gen rush, hook proximity bp penalty, the ability to win games and getting to play a video game and not waste 10 minutes in a lobby for 10 minutes of standing still would ALL like to know your location
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This would encourage hook diving, meaning a huge increase in tunneling.
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Ngl... that's a very big wall of nothing you wrote there. Kinda impressive, in a way.
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Okay, keep all grabs. But make it work like window grabs. Window grabs can only be made when the survivor is in injured state.
Also I can pull my killer credentials for anyone if they want.
I think getting an instadown at hooks encourages stand offs rather than action. Action is what makes the game fun for both sides. Chases; not standoffs.
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This is a terrible idea. To screw 95% of the population because a few campers or tunnelers can get hook grabs. They only get the hook grabs because your either not baiting the hit out or your doing it front of a camper. Either way this is not in the community problem. It's a poor decision on your part, but you want to remove it because of your faults.
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Then the person dies?
You guys aren't entitled to saves.
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Pretty sure they removed all grabs a year or so ago.
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Are you upset about the Leatherface changes? Because that’s exactly the advantages they removed from him. Charge time reduction add ons and holding M2 forever are both gone.
That was 95% of the population not doing that too. I’m not arguing for an always safe unhook. Just the instadown grab.
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Bad logic. Killers aren’t entitled to kills.
Playing better in the early part of the game should result in well played matches. Not hook camping because the killer is bad at chases.
As another poster said, the two health state grab enforces a poor playstyle. And as many killers know, hook trading is still very much possible without a two health state grab. This suggestion does not make rushing hooks safe.
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How would that be any different from just removing grabs completely, then? If they're rushing the hook while injured, you just down them anyways, no harm no foul. The point is to be able to punish them while they are making a bad save while at full health.
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If anything they need to fix hook grabs to actually work and not freeze you in position
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Why can’t killers get two health state grabs at windows then? It’s the same logic but applied two different ways.
The two health state grab is not a ‘punishment’ for an opportune killer. It is an incentive to face camp especially when they feel the game is lost when it isn’t necessarily. Were you pro M2 hostage Cannibal? Survivors trying to save were just ‘punished’ then too, right?
The killer will still likely get a down, even in the same face camp scenario. But they don’t get two downs without earning it.
Looking through the responses to this thread I think there are too many bad habits in the killer community. Encouraged by the gameplay mechanics, encouraged by the community. I might not have convinced yall yet (or ever) but I hope y’all keep it in mind while playing matches for the next few days.
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i'm going to say no because they time survivor follow me to hook and unhooks in my face survivors got balls and removing grab make them do it more.
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This kind of tactic is why I back up facing the hook after hooking a survivor. If they try to hide behind me they get revealed and any insta hook can be M1’d. You don’t need a grab.
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######### is going on? Why are most of the posts implying this would be a nerf to killers? Was there an edit to the original post that I missed? I can't see how insta downs at the hook would be anything but a major buff to killers.
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The creator is asking to remove the ability for killers to grab survivors in the middle of a hook save hence removing their ability to "instadown" survivors going for a save.
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Oh, they explained themselves in an absolutely horrible manner then. It looked like they wanted to replace hook grabs with insta downs which would have actually been more powerful.
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Why can’t killers get two health state grabs at windows then? It’s the same logic but applied two different ways.
Because there's no reason to punish someone for vaulting. There is a reason to punish someone making a bad save. It's like being able to grab a Survivor who won't get off a gen. Punish.
The two health state grab is not a ‘punishment’ for an opportune killer.
Yes, it is.
Were you pro M2 hostage Cannibal? Survivors trying to save were just ‘punished’ then too, right?
I am not pro camping. I am pro punishing bad saves.
Looking through the responses to this thread I think there are too many bad habits in the killer community. Encouraged by the gameplay mechanics, encouraged by the community. I might not have convinced yall yet (or ever) but I hope y’all keep it in mind while playing matches for the next few days.
This thread has convinced me to start making as many hook grabs as possible. :)
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hook grab need to stay survivors make alot of bad vaulting and hook saves they need to be Punish.
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This doesn’t acknowledge the downward spiral that the decision to camp hooks creates. Killers camp when they feel they cannot compete in stopping gens or winning chases and encouraged to stay by a two health state grab. Rather then defend generators and look for chases, they stay and wait. Thrilling gameplay. ‘Doing gens’ doesn’t encourage the killer to stop camping. It reinforces their thought that all they have is a hook camp.
Again. Killer can still punish bad hook saves (even though they’re forcing all hook saves to be bad). Removing grabs doesn’t stop trades. They just don’t get an instadown.
Maybe you’re a killer whose abilities are beyond this style of strategy but many aren’t and need bad habits removed by removing bad mechanics.
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Adding grabs to healing would be pointless because no one is stupid enough to heal directly in front of the Killer.
Hook grabs are there to punish really bad save attempts yes it can help campers but it would also be better than having people just unhook by exit Gate or something right in your face and you legitimately being able to do next to nothing about it
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You already have a lot of reasons why this is a bad idea, but it also punishes good players of other killers. Why shouldn't nurse be able to grab you off hook if she teleports right to you? What about when a killer drops from a top floor and grabs you off a hook? What about any stealth killer being a stealthy killer?
It's a firm "no" from just about any killer player.
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Healing grabs are oddly missing though. I bet I could get one with A Nurse’s Calling Ghostface.
To be in that situation described (end game, hooked by exit gate) means the killer played a bad match or was outplayed. I mean hooking by an open gate is a pretty big strategic flaw.
Really bad hook saves can still be punished. Just more earned then the mechanic I’m arguing out.
I am willing to take a hit in a low % play for me (and as many of you say) to remove it from the game and the arsenal of bad habit players.
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