Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Why was this change for Legion introduced?
Why does you power gauge has to be 100% filled before you can start you frenzy. Before it was like 25% needed and I understand why they made it that way back then because Legion was horrible, but now why not? This change would encourage people to use Frenzy more for mobility and if you need a stab very fast to start chaining, your Frenzy being able to use at 25% would be very optimal. I see nothing wrong if this change were to be implemented.
Comments
-
Majority of changes to Legion had nothing to do with the chasing survivors backwards cheese.
Devs added things that can only be considered punishment, as I refer to it.
"Lets address chasing people backwards"
"ok, I got it, lets add a 4 second stun + a blind when they cancel frenzy and also make it take 20 seconds before they can use that power again, oh and if you miss your attack you are stunned, that should fix it"
It can only be described as overly punishing, hopefully one day we will have our day of revenge, and they change those things.
22 -
I just recall a bunch of people (mostly content creators) were complaining a lot that there was no punishment for Legion when missing a stab (Their power) and then the nerfs came. Quite honestly a lot of the nerfs could be reverted considering they got rid of the moonwalking and deep wounds exploiting. I'm fine with Legion being able to frenzy at any % also but I feel like instead of filling the whole entire gauge on a successful stab it should just reset to where it was previously. Would lessen restrictions but add more depth to the killer. I feel like it would be a little cheesy if you could Frenzy at a low number and refill it instantly but that's just me.
Personally though I'd be fine with Legion's penalty scaling based on stabs similar to Nurse's fatigue based on # of blinks. The Legion fatigue and vision starts off on a low number at like 2 seconds and gains .5 seconds for each stab. Hell you could even remove the penalty for missing and just let missed stabs drain 10% of his power or something and each missed stab would add to the fatigue. That way you have a bit more fun Legion but missing it is punished hard.
A lot of interesting stuff could be done with Legion's power but right now they're kind of boring to play. He's supposed to be fast but I don't feel at all fast when I play the killer. I just feel like I'm constantly restricted with their power and merely the threat of using it on survivors is more threatening than actually using it unless survivors goof up and group as 3+ somewhere.
5 -
To the time where the rework of the Legion had happened, 1-2 bigger streamer (far as I know) were with crocodile tears complaining about the Legion. I guess for publicity reasons, because most of the things they have complain about were either not possible, or not possible in parts.
Also there was a very vocal part of the survivor base, that had cry for nerfs. I have talk a lot with them and they were not willing to learn, to that time.
They had on purpose not watch any training video against Legion's abilities and not care to read 1 single tutorial in the forums. Instead they have mostly watch those streamers, that have either show exploiting Legion's, or Legion's with op addons equipped.
To this day! I have not seen one op video of the Legion from this time, that had not fall in one of the categories above.
Those guys had overvoice the Legionplayerbase and the survivors who have stay neutral.
The Legion pre rework was perfect, if the killer player has use no exploits and stayed away from the strong addons.
In my eyes, BHVR had just punish every Legion player for the deeds of a small part of the Killerplayerbase of that time.
Legionplayers were the only ones that got banned for exploiting on a scale like this and we were the only ones that got a nerf... sorry rework like this.
To this day it is a red flag for me and I know many players who see it on the same way.
TL:DR The Legion rework was not a rework. It was a insult right in the face of every honest playing player.
2 -
I was glued to the drama back then too, and the funny thing is, those big streamers were not banned for literally showing the Legion exploit for hours and hours everyday.
They banned no name people who dont stream, but the streamers who were showing how to walk backwards to kill with Legion, well they are still around. Your post is spot on.
Same thing with asylum map bug of old,... big streamers who showed tens of thousands of people who to do the exploit were untouched,... they literally created the "soft ban" 3 strikes ban so they didnt have to ban these people. yet Legion players,... banned for exploiting. I wasnt because I never did the exploit and was streaming all my games back then and never showed the exploit.
3 -
Thanks and yes, in my eyes - there would I start with banning.
Sure, everyone should be informed about exploits - so that you know, that you see a exploit if it happens in your matches - but nobody should teach it someone.
If banning really is a thing, first the guys who teach someone how to play against the rules should be banned. Otherwise the problem persist.
That is my point of view to it.
1 -
As I've said before honestly I think it's because of the immense amount of backlash we were getting for the Legion that they rushed rework out without thinking about it too much.
A lot of the changes overlap each other in extremely punishing ways when lethal attacks don't do this.
The add-ons pass was also incredibly rushed.
The initial pins were absolutely useless and detrimental.( they're still not the best but they're at least better)
The removal of the the speed add-ons in exchange for killer instinct detection range add-ons was stupid.
Franks mixtape and stab wounds study are super counterintuitive to The Legion's new playstyle and they're both still tuned towards old Legion.
I am glad they're going back on some of their changes like the vaults speed and the overall speed of frenzy hopefully they follow suit and just look over Legion again to try to fix the rushed job they did.
0 -
Legion legitimately has the WORST drawbacks to their power. Let's list them out shall we?
- Use your power? Scratch marks and bloodpools are invisible, tracking is harder.
- End your power? Go into a 4 second stun and lose most of your visibility.
- Miss an attack while using power? Immediately end your power and put it on full cooldown.
- Hit a survivor with Deep Wound? Immediately end your power and put it on full cooldown.
- Stunned while using your power? Immediately end your power and put it on full cooldown.
- Hit a survivor without your power active? Lose 50% of your power's charge.
All those drawbacks and Legion's power can't even down anyone, all it does is apply a weak status effect. It's hilarious how badly Legion is punished. Even when using their power well they get punished just by the 4 second stun when ending it.
There's a good reason why most people consider Legion low tier.
8 -
Don't know what is problem with legion now i can even storm swf with him at high ranks. But if you want frenzy for 25% at current recharge rate and new bleeding mechanics then you will simply waste his power since some survs won't be able to med fast enought and also you can always save his power.
0 -
For many people it is not the question if the Legion should be buffed, or nerfed.
If we just go after the data, that bhvr has publish, the new Legion is better. The killrate of the current Legion lays by 65% or higher, I believe (can't find the posting yet from bhvr about the last killer-killrates).
The killrate of the old Legion had lay, even with cleary op addons and 2 exploits, by somewhat between 20-30%.
The point is, with the rework has gone the "soul" of the Legion.
To pre patch Legion times, the Legion had a unique playstyle, like the Nurse as example and many miss that playstyle.
Would bhvr tomorrow build a Legion abilitie with what we would be able to instantly kill every survivor in a match, I still would want the old Legion back, because of this unique playstyle (well and because I was never be a fan of anything op, if I am honest and such a killbutton would be op :) ).
0 -
I used to asume it was done to add skill cap to legion. He's a very simple killer to get injures with. The only thing that makes the difference is your M1 skills among others that every killer in the game shares. Which is why I don't like playing as legion.
0 -
Pre rework Legion was not perfect. They were absolutely miserable to face. Which is not to say I agree with how far they went. From the time I've spent playing Legion I found a few things that I felt needed tweaked.
I think the stun should move down to 3 seconds. The Frenzy power meter should not be depleted by basic attacks. I think you shouldn't lose you power from on missed hit. I feel if a hit was missed it should deplete 50% of the power bar. And if you connect on the second swing you only get 50% of the bar back. Not a complete refill. Lastly I think the power bar should only take 15 seconds to refill at base.
1 -
Well, every person has things he like, or dislikes. I have never deny it. Even in the days back then, but it is also true, that not every person has the same preferences and in my opinion - a multiplayer game should try to make everyone happy and not crushing one feature down, just because some people scream to loud.
What the new Legion matters... Well there are plenty of tiny possibilities to buff them. Yours are one of them. Even if after that the Legion would still feel like a m1 killer to me imo and that lets a bad taste in my mouth.
0 -
The problem is old Legion was simply too oppressive. There was no way to actually have an enjoyable match against Legion back then. They were literally impossible to escape in a chase. As I said, they did over nerf them. But they badly needed a change.
1 -
Well, I think there differently and I have knew many people on both sides (killer and survivors) who have think differently, but of course there were also people that have dislike the Legion.
But that have you to every killer, abilitie, perk, or whatever. The threads in those forums are a great example for that.
Anyways. I would be already happy if bhvr would finally admit that they have overdrawn the rework patch and done it with the wrong intentions in their mind, but well I don't think I will ever read that.
0 -
Old Legion also crashed the game. People weren't quitting, the game would ######### crash. Also people were quitting because he tunneled you to death. Soooo fuuuun.
Though I admit, I do miss how FAST he was.
And how is knowing where literally every survivor is hiding and taking off a health state not a good ability? That's the trade off for all the conditions. You can get max points in every game and thats before killing a single person.
0 -
You can tunnel with the most killers someone to death. All what is necessary for it, is the will of the killer for it.
Also people left dbd for a variety of reasons. DBD would still be alive, if the old Legion would exist, I bet.
I have good memories on those times. Even if I was a Legion main to that time, my endgame chat was always either quiet, or full of nice people. I had even make screenshots of it, for the case if someone would doubt this.
The Legion itself was not a strong killer. What strong was, were the exploits and not even a handful of addons. I still have the opinion - if addons are a problem -> the addons should be nerfed and I think nobody would have complain about that, besides maybe some streamers, because then they would not be able anymore to show a op Legion^^.
0 -
Ok, but do people tunnel the same person to death when their ability works muuuuch better if they spread out? The answer was absolutely yes because they wouldn't spread out when their ability TOLD them there were more people nearby but still managed to be willfully ignorant.
DBD is dead? Could've fooled me. This more Billy crying? I'm going to play the ######### outta the chainsaw bros when they drop. I actually bought The Cannibal over a year ago. Clearly I have brain problems for doing that because he low tier keelir.
And how do you define strong killer? Cheap? Broken? Someone with a low skill ceiling who can dumb their way into a 4k?
0 -
Well, I don't know where I have write that DBD is dead.
I have wrote that people left DBD for a variety of reasons. Still, some of them coming back and DBD gains some completely new players. As you can see in the steam statistics, outwight this the people who left DBD.
I just doubt that DBD could die for one single reason and also not because of the pre patch Legion. For that, had the pre patch Legion to many people who have like them.
Just because some people were very vocal to the time of the rework of the Legion, doesn't mean they were the majority. My endgame chats and my talks with the people - outside of those forums - had look totally differently to what you had read here, to this time.
That was also a reason why I was so surprised by the rework patch -> I had never thought for a second, that bhvr would take those guys seriously, but they have sighs.
Billy is as example a strong killer, or basicly every killer who the majority of the playerbase is succesfull with and that was with the Legion not the case, otherwise the killrate of the Legion would have been higher to this time.
The point is, the Legion was weak to pre patch times, if you had not use their stronger addons, or exploits. A prove for this is already, that you can't find any op video of the Legion to that time, without such exploits or addons.
Would have been the Legion op without addons or exploits, you can be sure, some streamer would have show it, but not a single one had done it - far as I know and now, you know the reason for it ;).
0 -
@Talmeer @DrDeepwound I agree with you for the most part, and thank you that you took your time, you and everyone that responded. Legion in its current state is stable for now, but they definitely need big changes to their power and to reduce the drawbacks. That's why I think we should be loud about these things, so the devs know that there's something wrong that needs to be adressed.
It's kinda hard to balance Legion if you take a closer look. You have to make Legion an enjoyable killer to play as and against and the main complain that survivors have with Legion is mending. Mending is the one that needs to be looked upon as soon as possible. It is not in any way a good or healthy mechanic for the game. I would like to hear your opinion on how the devs could change the mending mechanic, because everyone proposed changes for the Legion's power, but mending is a core part of his kit too. Here's some changes that I want for Deep wounds/Mending:
•survivors stabbed with Feral Frenzy must mend and if they dont, they will go down.
•the less time deep wounds has left until the survivor goes down, the faster the mending (e.g. if a survivor starts mending at 99% before the Deep wounds bar fills out, they get a 20% speed boost at mending)
•the Legion can now see the progression of the survivors' deep wound bar.
•survivors affected by the deep wounds are also oblivious to the Legion's TR.
•each time the Legion hits a survivor with Feral Frenzy, they can stab again during the Feral Frenzy to deplete 25% of the survivor Deep wounds timer, but no more than 25%, so the Legion has to use this advantage smart so they can benefit out of it the most.
Ok so let me explain these changes again. If you get stabbed by Legion during Feral Frenzy, you have the Deep wounds timer, and the survivor has 2 choices: They either mend at the beginning of the Deep wounds timer and have a longer mending time, or they mend when the Deep wounds timer is almost 100% so they get a speed boost to mending, which seems like a better idea, but given the fact that when you have Deep wounds you are also Oblivious, the Legion can come to you, and if you tge survivor pays attention and the Legion doesn't down them with an m1 attack, they use Feral Frenzy and deplete 25% of their Deep Wound timer, which might result in the survivor getting downed. So you either play safe and mend at the beginning but for a longer time, or you wait until you get the speed boost to mending, but you are more likely to get downed.
0 -
My solution for mending time is simple: Just delete the dw effect.
I at least, had never meet a guy to pre rework times that had play the Legion because of the dw abilitie. That had only came up, after bhvr turned the Legion into an easy-to-adapt-m1 killer.
The people, including me, had play the Legion because they wanted to play a fast killer that can also be dangerous and some of them also because of their story, like me.
Nothing of this needs necessarly a dw effect.
Ideas of people like you @gunslingers_potatoe are most times well worked out and well thought out, but I am afraid, that the dw effect is just something that the devs use to denie any buffs for the Legion. Aka. "Uw, what do you want? You guys can already injure people faster as almost everyone!" People: "Because we want that the Legion... Argh forget it. It is already said a thousand times by now."
1
