Reasons why killers should be able to see if survivors are in groups
Here are some reasons I feel that killers should see if survivors are swf
- The ability to bring the appropriate power level, 4 solo survivors most people are happy with a mid tier killer with brown or yellow addons but then every now and then they just get absolutely destroyed by a swf because they had no indication of knowing. With this change it would allow killers to be better prepared with addons to bring what they feel is an appropriate power level or stay the same and take on the challenge.
- The ability to not bring dead perks, perks like knockout that have niche usage but get absolutely bodied by swf can now be substituted so the killer doesn't feel bad that they have to play the match with 3 perks. With this change it would tell killers you might want to substitute niche perks for a different one that isn't countered by swf
- It would give killers trying new killers a fair chance, the first experience with a killer for people is usually the most important this will tell them if they have a fair stomping ground for their first time out with a new killer. With this change people might try new killers out more often and broaden their horizons.
- It lets you anticipate a map offering, most 4 man swf groups bring map offerings like ormond, coldwind, and haddonfield to greatly increase their chances of winning or provide powerful synergy with all survivors on the team knowing they are a swf will help killers anticipate a map offering and maybe try to counter it with their own.
- It lets you know if you should dodge a lobby, people who aren't confident in their abilities as killer might be turned off from the game if they get curb stomped too hard by a swf in the middle of their gameplay being able to see if its a swf will let the less confident killers find another lobby where they might feel they stand a better chance.
There are other probably better reasons but I feel that this change would help out a great many killers
Comments
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Reasons why they shoudn't : SWF would never been able to find a game. and probably would be matched with low ranks killer in the end.
and this comes from a SoloQ survivor.
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You shouldn't be able to dodge match. I sometime play with my friends that aren't very good we don't even communicate. i don't want to wait 1 hour to find a match where the killer bring a mori and make my friend leave the game.
Just wait for the matchmaking change.
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This is just silly swf's would never get games because most killers would just dodge not a good idea sorry to tell you.
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Killers would just dodge lobbies and increase queue times. No.
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Deleted.
Post edited by MusicNerd_TC on4 -
Just play KYF if you want to be able to spec your killer for a swf.
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I do when we are 5 but when we are less than 5 it's not a solution. SWF ain't going away.
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I'd like to earn BP and stack cakes with friends. No
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Lot's of complaints about lobby dodging here. Queue times would be much better for survivors if the game was balanced correctly. People who are trying out new Killer's should not be forced to go against SWF's at the start. I'm going to keep stating this solution until it get's implemented. Either the game get's balanced for SWF's by adding VOIP to it so that every match is essentially a SWF or Killer's have the option to check off SWF's and increase their queue times OR Killer's get increasing bonus BP for size of SWF.
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No to all of these.
Sorry, but this would cheapen the game. And you should never dodge lobbies.
Makes you a coward.
Besides, all of this just sounds like tryhard metagaming attempts.
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I just cannot see any of these proposals being implemented. I'm pretty sure nearly all killers, myself included, will dodge all known SWF lobbies, bloodpoint bonus or not.
Seems to me any changes the devs might do are in a "do not increase queue times" kind of mind. So cannot indicate a SWF in the lobby, cannot separate them out, cannot disband them, and cannot interupt comms but also cannot force in-game comms either. They simply won't do any of it, especially since more than half of all survs are in at least a 2-man SWF.
Given all that, the only method left is to raise solos to about SWF level, then rebalance killers around that.
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If killers could see if a group is in a 4 man swf they would lobby dodge. This would make the que times even worse.
"After" a match then I see no harm in telling the killer if it was a swf.
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I agree with you, I don't see the developers implementing any of these features either. Adding VOIP to the game would be the only real way to raise solo to SWF but they will not do it. So this game with always be in an indefinite state of broken until implemented.
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I don't think it's cowardice to not want to get completely steamrolled. It's a game. I play games to relax, not get completely wrecked. If I want to get wrecked I'll go try to deal with bloodborne bosses on ng++++, I shouldn't have to deal with it here when I'm not even out of the double digit ranks yet. If swf wanna complain so much they should absolutely get their own lobby and killers absolutely should get the chance to opt out.
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Looking at this thread makes me wonder:
I wonder why killers want to dodge SWF?
Could it be that they expose some of the most broken, unbalanced things in this game? And that they're incredibly unfun to verse?
But noooooooooo... The killers only want to dodge to bully some solos, not to not have a disgraceful experience.
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The only solution I can imagine is if VoIP is implemented in the game, in a limited fashion. That is, players can hear each other only when they're close and the killer can hear it too if he's also nearby. That aside, I think it's pointless. I never understood all the hate for SWF. Even in such matches, the killer still comes out with multiple kills more often than not.
People say the survivors complain a lot, but the fact that killer players are saying they'd dodge lobbies only emphasize the fact that they're much more interested in stacking games in their favor than in actual balance.
If the killer gets to see when players are in a group so he can spec for said group then the survivors should know who the killer is in the lobby, so they can spec for that killer. If you think that's unfair, I completely agree. It's the same point, though. If you can spec for the upcoming match because you know what you're in for, it defeats the purpose of the game.
But while we're on this topic, memento moris and allowing survivors to bleed to death should have BP penalties. In the case of moris, they shouldn't grant points at all for kills. My justification is lore. The killer's objective is to hook survivors to summon the entity and sacrifice survivors. Killing them bypasses the whole "sacrifice to the entity" aspect of the game. So they shouldn't receive points.
That way, killers can continue to use moris, there's just a trade off. In that respect, hatch escapes when the gates aren't powered should have BP penalties, too.
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It should at least showing type of SWF (2men, 3men, 4men, 2x2men) right before the trial start. So Killers dont dodge the lobby, and they will decide to play harder or just chill out.
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penalty this. Penalty that. This community is so divided and will never be able to meet in the middle on anything. If there is something going on that negates a killer perk out of game, swf, it shouldn’t be allowed. I play as survivor with two of my older kids and we dont use any kind of communication outside of game other than hearing laughter at one of our own mistakes.
since they are waiting to do cross play, then it would be a good time to give either a ranked mode and it’s solo survivors or a swf mode for those who want to deal with it.
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SWF should be a separate mode
Solo Play should be a separate mode
Why is this option difficult to make?
(Some Killers may want to go against Survivors With Survivor Friends. Consider it Hard Mode)
(It's very Apparent some Killers dont want SWF)
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bUt iT wOuLd iNcrEsE qUe tImEs that are <1 minute all over the day. Then wait 5 minutes, like killer have to all day long. SWF is just broken and unfair period.
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All my survivor queues are over 30 minutes while killer ones are instant. It depends on where you are.
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- To Lobby Dodge
Yup
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I think most killers don't realize just how many of their games contain a two or three-man team. Dodging every single one would be unrealistic, unless is was the odd 4-man (because those are so rare, *riiiight??*)
If dodging did become a problem however, you could introduce a small time-out penalty for leaving the lobby early. It would still give unconfident killers the ability to opt out and a take the time-out instead.
The ability to get some forewarning on a significant difficulty increase would honestly be a good QoL change. SWF is such a huge advantage, and being surprised by it when you've just been playing casually with your B-tier killers always feels terrible. SWF should get an honest run for their money and not expect to stomp on unsuspecting killers.
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Devs can't be bothered to balance their own game, but are okay with pushing that crap on solos/killers. Remember, cash cows. People play games they can play with their friends, and that brings in revenue. Balancing that is out of the question, be it because they lack the knowledge, or truly don't care.
As they've said in the past, they don't want an increase in lobby dodging.
A more reasonable change would be showing who was in a SWF after the match, in the post game lobby screen. Can't dodge that.
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Reason 2: the game would die. This comes from solo survivor/killer that gets constantly matched against 2-3 person parties.
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They should at least make an indicator of SWF in the scoreboard after the game is over. According to the messages I've gotten on PS4, I've never played against a SWF in my life. 3/4-man meta SWFs that send you to Ormond/Coldwind/Haddonfield/Red Forest and all split up on different gens are almost impossible to beat, you shouldn't even get depipped playing against those squads. Getting 1 or 0 kills against them doesn't mean you suck
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The game would die because a killer can run stronger killers or addons against a swf sounds kinda just wrong to me.
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just because they can lobby dodge doesn't mean they will
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Programming hard and balancing a party game to not include the party element is not what the devs have in mind.
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Cheapen the game?
only because 1 of the points the other 4 don't stand
this analysis of yours is wack.
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The fact that so many people say this shouldn't happen because it would increase q times because of lobby dodging, only proves that SWF has inherently broken aspects to it.
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I wouldn't support being able to see SWF before a match without something to combat lobby dodging. Post-match is a-okay, though.
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If I can't see the ranks of my teammates, you can't see who's in SWF.
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You can pretty much tell when they have similar names.
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Well then should survivors be able to see who the killer is to properly equip perks? I dont think so
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Please give me a break. If you can abuse something, it will be abused. That's human nature.
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1) No because often more than not people bring the killers they want to or high tiers as it is. Some people runnkillers for fun, but if you care more about what's good more than fun, you're going to play whats good anyway. So I dont understand the point in this one. I play pig even when I see a 4 man swf, shes not great, but I have fun with her more than say Billy or spirit.
2) Dead perks? The only time anyone's gonna run "dead perks" is if they're only playing for fun anyway or builds that have synergy. Example being oni with KO and DS etc.
3) killers trying new killers a fair chance? What. Just what.
4) I've personally never had a problem with SWF bringing offerings to those maps. Not saying it never happens, but definitely don't think its as bad a problem. The maps are very iffy as it. If youre going to anticipate map offerings for problem maps, the devs should just look into fixing the maps. Not only that, just like there are survivor sided maps, there are killer sided maps as well.
5) just be real here and say that 1-4 should be void and that you should just be allowed to lobby dodge rooms because that's really what this is all about
The devs should just make a toggle switch where you can choose to play against swf or not que against them. Some people care others really don't. Only time I hate SWF is when they're overly toxic. Then again its DBD. Both sides are toxic as hell.
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Id like to know if there was a SWF in the results screen
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I'm all for seeing it in the end screen. Not in the lobbies. And that goes for both when I play survivor AND when I play killer.
Showing survivors who amongst the other survivors are together in the lobby, I'm all for though.
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reasons why not:
or just 23452 killers doing this to the same people in a lobby
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- People will probably be already playing their favorite it just protects them from trying something new and being throttled or playing something they aren't confident with
- If someone is trying to have fun they should at least know if they can use the things they want without them being dead perks due to swf communication
- First experiences with killers is important and being trounced by a 4 man isn't a fun first outing
- Your personal experience doesn't speak for everyone but from my 1200 hours at high ranks it is around 90% of the time its a 4 man they have a map offering
- this was more for the cowards and the people who fear failure personally ill just put on a stronger killer, perks or addons then say bring it on. or if its a swf with a key then ill bring a mori.
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No, the game would die because very few killers would actually do that, instead opting to simply leave and let someone else deal with it, thus artificially inflating their wait time. It could potentially turn into several hours of waiting, only to get a match against a spirit running an ebony mori because she somehow thinks that's "fair".
Whether or not SWF is fair... Well, it's been proven to be drastically unfair and commonly abused. It would only make sense to add a SWF tag in the post-match scoreboard, and it would be even better if said scoreboard actually worked and didn't reward a sweaty 4-man or an ebony mori spirit. But adding a pre-game-lobby tag, that would genuinely kill the game.
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So how about we apply your logic to survivor. Here are reasons why the survivors should know which killer they are facing.
- The ability to bring the correct item to match the killer your facing.
- The ability to not bring dead perks against certain killers.
- If I'm playing a survivor I'm not used to I can then be prepared. Being a taller character or harder to blend character will make it tough so I might want to change to my someone else.
- Lets me anticipate a map offering. Seeing a stealth killer might make me except a hawkins or a lerys offering.
- Let's me know if I should dodge a lobby. Maybe I don't want to face Spirit every single game so let's dodge!
You see how everything I said is basically the opposite to what you said? You see how your idea won't work. Let's actually add more.
- I know the killers name. This could be someone who will target me or is toxic so I can dodge or bring stronger items.
- Let's me know if the killer is good or not by checking their trophies. This means more sweat or dodge.
This is what will happen when a swf joins the lobby:
- Killer swaps to someone stronger.
- Survivors change perks and items to compensate.
- Killer swaps to someone else.
- Survivors change their perks and items to compensate.
- This goes on till the killer last minute swaps or until someone dodges.
I'll say it again. 95% of swf teams are bad so your just punishing bad players who want to enjoy playing with their friends. When I play with my mates I don't want to face Spirits, with really good add-ons and an ebony mori every other game. This one change would drive a lot of people away from the game.
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i don't like facing swf either but this never going to happen and shouldn't.
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The problem comes down to people will, and a lot will.
When we could see ranks it happened much more often, I really expect it to get bad if we can see swf since a lot of killers tend to leave even when survivors come in groups; which isint a true way to tell anymore.
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The reason im applying it to killer seeing swf and not survivor knowing which killer is because
- killer is on average weaker or equal to a team of 2 man swf and knocked down 1-2 pegs for 3 man and 4 man respectivly
- This is a way to balance swf without giving them some sort of penalty or limiting them to how many people they have, how many times they can play together, nerfing gens speed or some other countermeasue.
- Survivor seeing killer is way more influential to the game then killer seeing swf. Knowing if its a slug heavy killer means everyone will have unbreakable, knowing its a chase heavy killer will ensure everyone has resilience or iron will, knowing its a stealth killer will have people running spine chill and other killer detection perks, killer seeing swf can just put on a stronger perk or two not a full loadout that would make the match 20x easier for the survivors
- killer perks matter more then individual survivor perks, a team of 4 man swf has 16 survivor perks at their disposal well a killer only has 4 having a dead perk as killer is much more influential to a match then 1 of a teams 16 perks not working.
- last minute switching would still throw off matches anyway on both sides now going from a wraith vs. 4 flashlights to a lightborn better killer in general.
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So its okay though for a 4 man to have a huge advantage over the killer right? Survivors try to push blame on killers saying they just want easy solo queue games, yet that is exactly what every SWF group wants; an easy escape.
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You may say killer is weaker on average but statistically you are incorrect. I've played a lot of killer at red ranks and you generally get 3/4k in 9/10 games.
It also isn't a balance to swf. Your just encouraging the killer to being an ebony mori or broken add-ons.
I'd say killer seeing survivor and survivor seeing killer are both equally broken. Now that the new matchmaking system won't allow the killer to swap characters I'd say it is definitely more broken on the survivor side.
Sorry but their is no good reason to show whether your facing a swf or not. If you see after the game that it is a swf then that is better. If anything I actually think the survivors names should be hidden in the pregame lobby so the killer doesn't change his build based off someone he doesn't like.
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I mean its what a killer wants when they bring a mori an easy game this would just let those two sides meet more often I guess easy vs easy is better than bored for 4 minutes vs. already out and being toxic in after game chat
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Rank isn't a good measure of skill and never was its more a measure of how much you play month to month.
That sounds like balance to me both sides being strong is better than everyone is weak or the group are weaker for playing in a party.
Killer just seeing if they are swf is way less busted then survivor seeing killer and killer not being able to switch, oh its a trapper red twine maps or rainbow maps with slippery meat terrace, most killers have so many simple counters that people having complete loadouts against them to ruin their day.
Literally listed good reasons you just don't like any of them because you don't care that the unbalanced thing is unbalanced and killers deciding to bring a green and yellow addon instead of two browns for a casual match is scary for you.
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