FaceCamping Solution
So, killers don’t get mad, what if their was a solution to facecamping. If a killer is 8-10 meters away from you, your health bar should not go down (or just progresses down very slowly). Sort of like the mending effect, how if a killer is chasing or around you it doesn’t go down. I feel like this is a pretty neutral solution to it and it evens out its sides!
If anybody wants to add on or change some of this up, go ahead! This is just a possible solution and can be played with a little bit to see what the best potential use of this fix on facecamping could be!
Comments
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nope. It's abusable to force a free unhook
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It amazes me how often this same suggestion comes up and how the same answer is always given. It should be obvious why tye suggestion is a bad one no offense
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We have a perk for that.
Camaraderie:
Life has taught you the importance of friendship which has given you strength.
While you are on the Hook in the Struggle Phase, Camaraderie activates.
If another Survivor is within 16 metres of your Hook while Camaraderie is activated, the Struggle Phase timer is paused for 26/30/34 seconds
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Not really, if the killer is within a certain amount of meters close to you, the hooked persons health shouldn’t go down. So, the killer can still facecamp, he can be touching the survivor if he wanted to, it’s just going to give survivors more time to do things. It hurts the killer for using this “strategy” but helps survivors in a way of having more time due to the unfairness of facecamping!
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Exactly, you should see HOW OFTEN IT IS SUGGESTED. Cause their is no counter to it and helps nobody but the killer possibly. With this suggestion, the killer doesn’t get hurt or helped, and the survivors sill might not get the hooked survivor, but they have more time to do things!
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Yes, that’s if the survivor is close to the person that’s hooked. Even then, that survivor now must do nothing but remain close to the hooked survivor and do nothing to progress the game. Then that makes 2 survivors who can’t do anything really, all while the killer can do nothing but stand there. It’s a good perk if their was things close to the hooked survivor, but doesn’t help when it comes to facecamping AT ALL.
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Comaraderie wastes a perk slot and accomplishes less than that person just doing a gen. Lol
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This can be abused for a free unhook. Also what about maps with more than one floor. Such as Midwich or The Game. The killer could be above or below the hook but they will still be within 10 meters. Face camping already has a solution. Stay on the hook for as long as possible, do gens and get out.
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Yes really. Because when a Survivor is going for an unhook the Killer needs to be there in order to stop it. And this means the timer pauses when the Killer is there. So the Survivor can just wait near the hook, or alternatively wait just outside the Survivor is there failsafe check, until the Killer is forced to leave even if he knows there is a Survivor there.
Preventing unnecessary face-camping is fine. However the reason we can't simply prevent camping in general is because it needs to work in the scenarios where it makes sense to do so.
In other words, anything done to stop facecamping cannot do so universally without causing more problems than it solves.
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how many time this idea going to come up? been tried was abusable by survivors.
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i know you hate camping killer but survivors don't need anymore help i mean playing survivor you get lucky or you the unlucky one but with your idea all 4 survivors would get out 100% of the time.
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Not really, one is still gonna die... the killer is facecamping and still gets a certified 1k most likely. This just helps out the survivors with more time, doesn’t seem to be OP to me. Survivors get more time instead of getting hurt by a unfair strategy in the game (facecamping). It allows the killer to still do nothing and progress, while survivors get more time to make up for that one survivor they lost due to a StRaTeGy.
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Wow man, you’re big brain. We got Jimmy Neutron here folks. This isn’t a instant free hook. If a killer is facecamping, they’re not going to move for no reason. If the killer is away, the person will get unhooked either way, so Basically like a normal game. If the killer I under them or above them, it just super slows the timer down, which won’t matter cause somebody is going to unhook the survivor anyway. This doesn’t regress a killer, just either don’t facecamp, or give the survivors more time.
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Your the one who made this thread. A topic that has been asked several times before and has the same answer. You clearly didn't read my post. If the killer hooked someone, left and went down/up stairs. They won't be face camping but your idea will still punish them. Try using the search feature the next time you have a thought. If you can't handle criticism don't make a post.
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dude the gen already go fast if killer camps or survivor starts a chase around hooked survivor the 2 or 3 none hooked survivor could get all gen done 99% still have time save they buddy with bt and ds it be 0k most of the matches 1k not going to happen.
how do i know this as is now 3 survivors knowing a killer is camping can get 4 gen done before survivor die on first hook your idea give them way more time to save the hooked survivor with bt and s how powerful tho are in the endgame it be loss every match..
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There are a lot of perks that counter it unless its face camping bubba with noed. Then the best thing to do is gens. Your suggestion has been tried, swf abused it so bad it had to be removed.
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Hey, OP wanted something similar, when we have a perk for it. That's like people asking for a totem counter, when we have Small Game and Detectives Hunch. Or Killers talking about flashlight blinds, when we have Lightborne. Heck, DS is often a waste when I add it into my build. It's there as a backup, just in case it does happen.
O well then. Hold out for two minutes on hook so your team can hammer out gens. Or don't, and move on. You idea is pretty abusable. Survivors simply follow a killer to hook, then hover around, punishing the killer. How is that fair? Or when all gens are powered, and those same survivors have 99% the gates. Then it just becomes a hostage situation.
You know Borrowed Time is a decent counter to faceamping. Run DS as well, just in case. Or give up on hook and move on to another game.
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No but that perk is absolutely useless. A lot of perks are. A perk existing with the idea to counter something isn't the same as actually countering it.
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Of course, but in return DS and BT are removed.
You like?
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Exactly that suggestion was already tried in a ptb, and it was abused HEAVILY by coordinated survivors. So bad that the devs promised that they will NEVER try to add such cmaping punishments EVER again. Try to think about how bad the situation must have been, when the devs totally double down on their idea and never want to try something similar ever again!
Face Camping is strategy. A bad and lazy one, which will not help you at all against a good survivor team, but still a strategy. Just accept or tolerate that it's a part of the game. Rush them gens and leave, don't feed the camper with trying for a save, that usually backfires and confirms the campers actions. Make it as boring as it can be for the camper, so he finally may change his playstyle. I see no other way than this.
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Facecamping solution: do gens.
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Facecamping solution 2: don't attempt escape/suicide on hook.
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8-10 m is way to far away to punish a killer like that. If the team is dumb enough to take a chase around someone on the hook they deserve the consequence. Facecamping happens within 1-2m range, a good team punishes the killer for it. In solo I see kindred more often lately making solo teams stronger against a facecamper. If the devs want to change anything at all about it I think what they did to the cage of atonement would maybe happen; spawn on another hook if the killer stays near. I don't mind facecamping that much, it's a strategy and a bad one so I just hang on to give the team time.
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For solo Q - base kit kindred (killer aura only) within 2-3m - so the 'do gens' argument cannot be countered.
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Facecamping actually doesn't exist.
About camping, its a bad strategy for the killer because he'll easily lose 5 gens while hard camping.
But we can't confuse that with Killer hooking a survivor and as soon as he turns around he sees two survivors using the "clickclick" flaslight thing, doing circles or moonwalking, staying there would not be camping and with this mechanic it would be awfull for the killer.
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If a killer is hard camping somebody, you punish them by rushing the gens and getting out of there. The mistake most survivors make is trying to rush the hook and getting downed in the progress. I can’t tell you how many games I’ve been in like this where a killer like Bubba has been handed an easy 3K. 🤦🏻♂️
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I don't even think this is really an issue... But if it were, I wouldn't actually see an issue with pausing/slowing the struggle timer for hooked survivors if killers are right on top of them.
The radius would have to be small (because you can't just incentivize people to bait near the hook to save people), and it'd have to be based on a hook radius rather than killer, and it'd have to be horizontal axis only (to fix the multiple floor issue), but I don't see a problem overall, other than it being a solution to a problem I don't really think is a widespread issue lol.
I don't understand the "free unhook" argument though. Perhaps I'm just not considering things fully, but pausing a hooked survivor's timer for a second to slap around a cheeky survivor doesn't seem like a massive deal. Hell, I'm sure there could be a way to fix that perceived issue too. But idk. If I'm just looking at this from the completely wrong perspective, feel free to let me know why.
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Already made by other people, I didn't see the point in saying it again.
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I remember when escape attempt spamming was a well known signal for "I am getting camped". Did this get out of Fashion?
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But you are needed ! :(
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I still do it, though not everyone knows about it - plus you can't do it on second hook.
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Would 100% be abused by players running BT as always.
Sorry, next questiopn
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Theres an easy counter. Go do the damned gens.
Stop feeding into campers and theyll learn the hard way.
Hell, I had a friend about to die on hook. I used bt to swap places w him, and by the time I was dead on hook, they had finished the last 3 gens and LEFT. All because I was being facecamped. Had they tried to also save me it would be a 2 or 3 k.
Accept that someone is dead, and get work done.
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What amazes me even more is that nobody actually tries to come up with a viable solution.
People are already so conditioned to that "Has been tested and abused" mantra, that the person that is usually the first responder to these kind of posts doesn't even need to respond anymore, unless asked to do so. Scary.
Anyway. Usually that's where every discussion like that hits a dead end. Just throw the "Has been tested and abused"-Bomb and the damage is done.
Nobody actually talks about a Sacrifice slow down when the killer stays in the hook radius, UNTIL A SURVIVOR ENTERS THE HOOK RADIUS TOO (which is when the sacrifice process should return to normal speed).
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It's scary that an idea that was objectively proven to be a failure is immediately shot down? People don't need to stick their hand in the stove twice to figure out it's hot, so why should we entertain the same failed idea twice?
Solutions have been discussed to death. The problem is that some people are unwilling to accept that punishing the killer for proximity to the hook is why the original idea failed and no amount of "ifs" is going to change that. They're also unwilling to accept that a better solution would be to either heavily punish survivors for hook rushing/farming (the leading cause of "death by camping") or make it more rewarding for killers to allow free unhooks than it is for them to camp.
Post edited by Orion on5 -
Viable solution is to reward the person on hook with more bps and pip points. Realisticly even if youre not being camped and your team is just to dumb to come get you, either way you shouldnt depip for that and should get a percentage of the bps.
The problem with trying to directly punish camping with an in game mechanism is there are plenty of legitamate reasons to camp and tgeres no real logical way to differentiate the 2
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I don't see solutions being discussed to death. But I always see the "has been tested and abused" bomb being thrown every time this topic comes up.
Instead of building on top of that Idea, I see people trying to shut down discussions without expanding on ideas and innovating them. Yes, that's scary, but it does perfectly fit the narrow-mindedness that you already touched.
The game already recognizes hook campers when it comes to calculating emblem points (or better said, substracting them if killers camp) and it already works with "ifs" (which is, it stops to substract emblem points of the killer if a survivor enters the hook radius). We already have the base mechanic in the game, but it's just used for emblem points.
I'm all for punishing survivors for ruthless hook farming, but throwing more bones to hook campers to allow "free unhooks" won't change anything (we already have stuff like BBQ or Make your Choice that should be incentives to leave the hook).
We've got 2 Ideas in the room:
1) Slow down the sacrifice process when the killer stays near the hook2) Slow down the sacrifice process when the killer stays near the hook, unless a surivor enters the hook radius too
Mechanic 1 was tested ("... and abused").
Was Mechanic 2 tested? Anybody?
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I play many games every day, last time I was facecamped was 3 months ago. It's not a problem at all because it's super rare.
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I don't see solutions being discussed to death.
Only because you haven't been here long enough. I've seen this debate so many times, it's not even funny any more. I feel like I'm in Groundhog Day, waking up to the same song on the radio every single time.
I'm all for punishing survivors for ruthless hook farming, but throwing more bones to hook campers to allow "free unhooks" won't change anything.
Well, trying to punish killers for camping was objectively proven to be a failure, even though everyone was so sure it'd work, so maybe we need to try something that everyone's so sure will fail.
Was Mechanic 2 tested? Anybody?
Mechanic 2 suffers from the same problems as 1. Any mechanic that's based on punishing killers for staying near the hook will always suffer from the same problem as mechanic 1, no matter how many "ifs" you stack.
EDIT: Tell you what, I'm gonna do you a favor so you can experience the same endless debate loop for yourself. I'm gonna open up a thread to discuss camping fixes, with the caveat that they can't be based on punishing killers for being close to the hook, since that was already tried and failed.
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Actual solution:
Give hooked players bloodpoints the longer the killer stays close to the hook. Consolation prize for distracting the killer - so it won't feel so bad that you're stuck doing nothing, you're at least getting bloodpoints.
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Camping is fine,do gens
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I dont understand this "dont punish the killer" argument. I mean.. you have to punish whoever is being unfair.. it's the same thing with survivors running infinites... they just removed the loops and "punished" survivors. FAIR ENOUGH I'd say! You might as well just give up whenever someone started running around that god damned slaughterhouse in the farm map. Also, survivors can't vault a window forever... which again, fair enough.
Now, somebody says: "hey.. you know... maybe we should look into a way to avoid face camping..." and my god, people lose their #########. If this is being posted so much in the forum it is because it's something that's worth looking into and not just to be pushed aside. Also.. not everybody reads the forums everyday... if you have 3,000 posts in here and is sick of reading about it too bad for you... but as long as the issue is there people are gonna keep posting about it.. it's simple like that.
Now I think it's really pretentious to just make a thread and tell everybody to post there following YOUR RULES because... I dont know.. for some reason your opinion is more valid than everybody else's.
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the solution to facecamping shouldn’t just be “do gens and get out” and your teammate just dies. That’s no fun for anybody. Facecamping needs to be more heavily discouraged as it ruins new players experiences and veterans as well. It’s a stupid “strategy” that should have no place in this game.
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You can’t just expect everyone to play optimal, especially at lower ranks. People want to save their teammates as everyone knows that it’s extremely boring and frustrating to get facecamped. It’s way more fun in this game to play altruistically instead of simply holding a button and doing a gen.
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The idea to have the entity progression paused when the killer is nearby but resumed when a survivor is nearby is still abusable, here's a not uncommon scenario.
As a killer you hook Dwight , upon finishing the animation you see red scratches everywhere and a Meg and Bill in the distance, maybe they're teabagging and flashlight clicking, whatever it is it's obvious what they want: for you to chase one of them while the other gets the unhook
[i]In this situation the smartest thing to do is guard the hook [/i]
Not because you really need that first hook sacrifice, but because you're keeping 3 people off gens: the guy on the hook and the two idiots staring at it while he slowly dies. As soon as you commit to chasing say, Meg, Bill will just unhook Dwight and they're both back on the objective if they want to be. Even if you catch the Meg quickly you've traded 3 people's attention for one. And if the survivor and killer are equal skill levels the survivor should easily be able to keep the killer chasing in the time it takes for one survivor to unhook and heal another.
So yeah any attempt to resolve camping via punishment will just be abused to get a free unhook. Unless you make the acceptable survivor range much larger than the acceptable killer range so survivors can't just hover outside the range. Like say, 8m for killer and 32m for survivor. But then you're giving killers a ghetto Whispers for free and if anything will encourage proxy camping so I wouldn't consider it a good idea.
If you really want to incentivise killers get away from the hook on a way that isn't abusable by survivors then you have to go in the opposite direction. Instead of punishing them for being near the hook rewards then for bring away from it. Like speed up progression when they're a set distance away, but I doubt you'd find many survivors happy with that.
Personally I think they should just give the hooked survivor distraction bloodpoints and leave it at that.
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It doesn't help the killer that much because he loses a lot of time facecamping. It's unfair, of course, but he can lose the game in this time he's in front of the hook. You lose a teammate but win the game
(Sorry if I wrote anything wrong)
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Rather have Camaraderie than half of the other survivor perks in the game.
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