Your refusal to even attempt to balance SWF is pathetic.
Enough said.
We've raised this issue often enough. SWF with comms using Object of Obsession, rigging games with info they otherwise couldn't possibly obtain, it's pathetic, you even had to admit they win more and yet you're so desperate for money you still made sure they know they're protected and nothing will ever happen.
The game is simply unplayable with SWF now. Your blatant refusal to fix it is just pathetic.
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Well, it's more of the fact that they're not actually using the PTB effectively to test changes and are just using it as an apparent publicity stunt and a bug-catching machine.
SWF changes, hook mechanic changes, perk changes, and more should all be more regularly introduced on a more frequent PTB and then taken back for consideration and NOT automatically included in the next patch (which it appears is the de facto result for PTB changes).
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>Well, it's more of the fact that they're not actually using the PTB effectively to test changes and are just using it as an apparent publicity stunt and a bug-catching machine.
Exactly. Why can't they at least make some experimental number changes or other similar light changes and mark them as "EXPERIMENTAL" aka the ones that aren't going live with main changes. Even that would allow to increase the pace at which balance changes are released to perks and killers, as many of them don't need reworks, but rather little number changes/addons basekit.
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I also really want them to get rid of swf on comms because they’re cheating and ruining the game for both solo q survivors and killers. The question is can they do something about it and what? Because they’re using third party apps to communicate so what can BHVR do about this? I hope they can do something about it but I honestly can’t think of anything.
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They'll never ever target SWF for any reason with negative changes because survivors are the majority of the playerbase. If you keep the majority happy and satisfied, they'll be more willing to buy things and buying things are what makes BHVR money. It'd be insanity to attack your main income of money.
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Removing SWF is not the correct solution. If the devs do that the game DIES. The correct thing would be to nerf it in some way, so it would already be balanced just like solo mode.
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The game would die without swf. Plus, what sort of nerf could they get?
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Odd. If you believe the killers on these forums, SWF makes up for 95% of the player base and they can't get a match without 'toxic' SWF being in it.
So yes, by that logic I think @Vixley is right to suggest the game would be kaput without the SWF players who are ostensibly prolonging the life of the game out of a desire to play a game with friends more so than because they're die-hard DBD fans.
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The game will die without anyone wanting to play killer, also.
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I think it would do just fine. I think it would get rid of a lot of toxic lil shits also that depend on coms and there bs tactics.. Without anyone playing killer, this game WILL die, unless they make all killers bots. I bet that's gonna be fun! 🤷♂️
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Well not all SWF are gods of the game
And no you cant find a way to "balance" this
Or if you can i would be happy to hear because you gotta find a way to "nerf" people playing together as there could be groups of 2 players, 3 players or 4 players and if its a 3-1 not make the game worse for the solo player. Beside it can also be that a lot of the game werent even swf but 4 solo players with 1 or 2 good loopers...over time people learn to play the game and how to be efficient
Oh and no nerfing the time you gotta hold m1 to do a gen as a swf aint a good fix, cause its not funny and the good louper will just have to take care of you a bit longer.
I would just remove or nerf OoO to start but it wont stop them to be able to communicate.
Yet i somehow got the feeling that "they're SWF" is a good excuse to say "i played badly" or "he was stronger then me" (i mean even i find it hard to admit lol) and not everyone is using OoO everygame all the time
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Just let us opt out. Don't give me that bull of "nobody will opt in". We don't want to deal with your absolute BS that makes the game unfun and unbalanced.
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its not pathetic sure some swf have voice comms that give a slight advantage but a lot of the time its just freinds wanting to play some dbd together
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Fun fact: killer queue are long asf rn rank 1 btw
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Sure, while we're at it can I please opt out of Mories, Ghost Face, No Ed and everything else I don't personally like? That would be great. Gideons and Lery's as well. Ta. Oh and BBQ, that would be awesome.
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Personally I think they should just implement voice comms in game for all survivors; At least then they can start balancing on the basis that survivors (Solo or SWF) can talk to each other.
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Comms are openly allowed. 100% not cheating.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1410947/#Comment_1410947
If you want to play with other people, you can join DBD's OFFICIAL Discord server. There are special sections to create or join a swf. I reiterate, it's on the official server.
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2 completely different things.
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TBH, I don't think we should get rid of SWF. Not because I think the game will die (I kinda doubt it, there are plenty of solo players out there), but it's just fun to play with your friends. And mine aren't terribly good at the game, so the Killer still has a chance to get a 4k.
What I think should happen is them introducing something that tells you if players are friends or have played a number of matches together. That way if you don't want to play with a SWF, you can back out of the lobby before the match starts.
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If devs would release the stats on how many games are SWF where the average rank is 1-8, you'd realize any killer worth their salt is against perpetual SWF. They keep the stats generic and broad to muddy the numbers, so that all the solos who play at awful ranks keep SWF at only just under 50% of all games.
Also this isn't about getting rid of SWF, merely alleviating its problems. Should SWF be allowed to take object of obsession? It's a walking exploit if you have comms. Why not blind survivors who are hooked, just let them see friendly auras but the rest of the game is a void so they can't tell their SWF where the killer is going (and it wouldn't block aura perks that help solo survivors).
The problem is the devs refuse to even try. No matter what is the optimal balance, devs are too busy promising to never touch SWF in this completely over-monetized game because even a dollar lost is tragic.
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If it's official that only adds to the argument that it should be considered when balancing the game. Nothing is balanced even mildly to accommodate the changes SWF has the ability to bring to the match. Devs don't want to hurt their cash flow (Despite having milked every possible avenue anyway), so they won't dare to touch SWF and it's pathetic.
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Here's a few:
Disallow Object of Obsession on SWF groups. It's abused to hell and back by SWF so that some people do gens whilst Object and maybe 1 other run rings around you with a never-ending stream of info.
Make survivors blind on the hook. Let them see friendly auras and nothing more. This should not affect their own perks e.g. ones that show killer aura if close to the hook, but they should not be allowed to see the killer when on the hook or else they can tell their SWF comms where he goes and what he does until out of line of sight.
Stop killers deranking in an SWF game. Don't even need to tell the killer till the end. If they get absolutely meme'd by SWF with comms abusing every possible avenue of advantage, they can at least not get punished in the mandatory ranking system for it.
The problem is no one is prepared to even try and work out what would work. Devs are too busy saying "don't worry we'll never hurt you SWF guys, don't forget to buy the new cosmetics and the rift pass and our next DLC"
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Dude, you can easily know if you’re playing against a swf group or not. Check their Steam profiles if you’re on PC and you can know from there.
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I don’t care what they say but for sure they will be biased towards survivors. I know it’s more fun to play with friends instead of strangers but using comms in a game like this is cheating, survivors using a third party app to gain a competitive advantage is cheating, it gives them an unfair advantage. If the devs could’ve done something about swf on comms they would’ve handled it a long time ago but it is impossible to do anything about this issue so the devs just simply ignored it and basically said we approve of this kind of cheating because again there’s nothing they can do about it. Besides, if they really believe it’s okay then the game would’ve had a voice chat system upon release or shortly after but it didn’t and still doesn’t because it’s obvious the game was initially not designed to be played that way.
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You come here complaining about breaking of the rules. The rules are explained to you. You proceed to say you don't care about what the rules actually are as they're detailed by those who make the rules.
Good one, chief. We're done here.
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Their plan is to use the new matchmaking system to quantify the advantage SWF provides and balance it out with matchmaking.
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My post is clear. If you want to know why I don’t care what the devs think about this matter anymore just read my whole comment. I made some good points and you just have nothing to say in return. You just want to follow what they’re saying even though it doesn’t make sense. Not everything they say is right.
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Dude it's not about communication it's about how skilled are players. if solo players know how to game it makes no difference at all. Beside that solos can also run information perks like Bond and Kindred or Detectives Hunch to coordinate themselfs perfectly.
The reason why in red ranks are so many potatoes is because the ranking system is based on playtime. So people with 100 hrs can reach rank 1 if they play enough. People with thousands of hours and a high skill level are stuck in rank 18 because they don't invest that much time in this game.
You get it? swf literally means nothing and if sth should get changes then the matchmaking (what it does the next few weeks) and probably how solo players can receive informations by default to coordinate themselfs better. That way the developers can buff killer in a more fair way for both sides.
And just a fun fact
Any killer is able to kill at least 1 survivor and mostly 2 even against a good coordinated high skilled team. (if you don't make any mistakes)
And no killer should be able to kill all 4 constant.
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You cannot argue with data. After ruin nerf, data available showed the following:
At RED RANKS:
- 92% of all games get 5 gen'd (holy #########)
- Killers average 1.7 kills.
- Not even the best killers, spirit/nurse, average 2 kills.
- Weaker killers (wraith, gunslinger) average 1.2-1.3 kills per game
That is not even filtering out red rank SWF's.
Data from a year ago would show more advantage to killers... the pendulum has swung, way too far.
Thus, based on the hard data above, the game is HEAVILY survivor favored at red ranks, BEFORE EVEN ACCOUNTING FOR SWF. If you account for SWF, the above stats would favor survivors EVEN FURTHER. So anyone who says red rank SWF is not imbalanced, and to "git gud" is completely disingenuous, uninformed, etc. They are likely a red rank SWF who enjoys dominating a game that heavily favors them. I can't say i haven't done that myself... I've absolutely abused the FOTM class/hero whatever in other pvp games... it feels good to hop on after a stressful day and WIN.
That said, I play both sides quite a bit, although I consider myself a killer main. I find that my personal enjoyment is I enjoy survivor better at red ranks, and I enjoy killer better at low purple (7-9). Once you get into 5-6 territory as killer, and start going against way more red ranks/premades, the game is not fun as a killer. I once had a game where all 5 gens were done in less than 4 minutes and someone was already waiting at the door and the door was done. I had one chase where a rank 1 with thousands of hours looped me pretty well and I made 1 mistake, they got 3 gens because of that mistake. Everytime I rotated to pressure gens, they already knew my pathing due to communication, nobody ever at a gen, no tracks, etc. Even with perfect play, there was no way to "win" (I consider winning getting 2 kills and getting +1 pip). Even getting a "draw" (2 kills and at +0 for pip) is an overwhelmingly difficult task against highly coordinated SWF. 1 mistake, it's over. You have to be in 3 places at once, and that's just not possible.
I stream this game, and I love it. So, what is my solution? If I go against a rank 1 SWF, I let them win in 2 minutes and de-pip. Typically those groups have 3 gens done after your first chase. You have 1 hook, they have 3 gens. I just let the game end at that point. I meme them, like chase them around as spirit and just try to get scares, or practice hatchets as huntress, or just dash from place to place as oni, find their best looper and just tunnel chase trying maximum risky mind games/new strats... you get the picture. I don't waste more than a few minutes in an unwinnable match, they don't get the pleasure of taunting me after a high effort futile attempt, I get to de-rank a bit and my next game is more fun. I give hatch and door to every potential 4 -kill which keeps me from ever double pipping up in games I play well, and I hang around rank 6-7 as killer and actually enjoy myself. When I'm tired of getting matched against red rank swf's who gen rush and use every single second chance perk possible in the game because of bad matchmaking even though I'm rank 6-7, then I go play red rank survivor myself and enjoy (if you can't beat 'em, join 'em).
This is a practical way to enjoy the current meta/balance, but that is merely out of necessity. it is not a good commentary on the state of the game, in fact it is a damning one.
TLDR: This game highly favors survivors at red ranks, even without SWF. With SWF, this game might be one of the most imbalanced PVP games I have ever played in my entire 30 years of gaming. That said, with the base mechanics of the game, it is still very fun if you keep yourself from ranking to red as a killer, or you enjoy the ease of red ranks as a survivor.
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You have GOT to be kidding me. Communication is priceless in this game. You take skilled solo players, give them comms, they can pre-plan their perks, items etc. You're just lying through your teeth if you want to pretend that is not an advantage.
See my post above about statistics from red rank games. The game is heavily survivor-favored even without SWF. With SWF it is an abomination to PVP balance in general. That cannot be argued.
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only a guy being destroyed by edgy SWFs could complain like this. remember you're the killer and if they play rough, you can play rough as well. there is no need to follow the survivor rulebook or fall for their baits. you're solo and you gotta do whatever it takes to win, even if that means playing "dirty".
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No matter what the killer chooses to do/style of play, you cannot argue with the statistics. This game, in its current state, heavily heavily favors survivors at the highest ranks, and with SWF it is even more heavily favored than it already is. I have 30 years of PVP experience in ~100 games. This is one of the most imbalanced PVP meta's I've ever seen.
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You cannot argue with data. After ruin nerf, data available showed the following:
At RED RANKS:
- 92% of all games get 5 gen'd (holy [BAD WORD])
- Killers average 1.7 kills.
- Not even the best killers, spirit/nurse, average 2 kills.
- Weaker killers (wraith, gunslinger) average 1.2-1.3 kills per game
That is not even filtering out red rank SWF's.
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Any
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Which shouldn't give them the advantage right? But it does soooooo........
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I've said it once, and I'll say it again: You don't nerf SWF, you buff solos and killers. Buff solos by giving them more communication and information. Most SWF nerf ideas could ######### over randoms playing with them or a random group of friends just wanting to have fun.
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funny tho if all killer quit survivors can't play so why would they buy anything?
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That's a problem for then.
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yes that it a problem for them that they need to think about..
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No, no. Then. As in, the future. For when the problems arrive.
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no the future is closer then you think when the problems arrive it be to late they need to think about the killers just as much survivors for it to late..
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Where did you get these stats?I can't remember seeing those.
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Where is the source for those stats?
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