What is "objectively fair for everyone in the game."
Like you guys literally wont give us a clear description of what a win is, so what is "objectively fair for everyone in the game."?
Like if this is the 2k and 2 escape logic, then this should be stated so killers don't feel like they are playing with survivors outside of their skill level and turning the sweat to 300%. If its a 4k that comes down to after the doors are open, let survivors know that.
Like you guys need to better clarify what is "fair" so your community understands that.
EDIT: This is specifically talking about their update regarding the upcoming matchmaking system. I understand as a community we define a fair game in our own ways. Some killers want a 4k, some just want 4 stacks of BBQ, some just want a good chase. Some survivors feel like stunning or getting a totem is a win, some find doing a specific gen as a win, some define escaping as a win, some define getting another survivor out as a win. But these are things as a community we have defined as a win, its not something "objectively fair for everyone in the game."
Comments
-
4 stacks of bbq is a win, even if its a 4 man escape you still got them good boy points
4 stacks and 2 kills is a big win
4 stacks and 4 kills is a large win
4 stacks, 4 kills, 12 hooks you won by a landslide
1 -
Don't think you will get a satisfying answer to this.
I think, as long everyone had the chance, everything is ok. Of course, some will never be happy since they like being grumpy cat, but if you had give a chance at least, its not your fault anymore.
0 -
Yeah, but that isn't an official description to be used in the new MMR system
I understand that, but if the devs are saying you are going to be matched against people to create a "objectively fair for everyone in the game." then they have defined terms that create an "objectively fair for everyone in the game." and they really need to let their community know that.
0 -
This may sound a bit weird (as you as talking about fair) but for me playing fair is equally to a good game. As a survivor (for me) it's not about getting to the exit, it's about having fun in the game. I'm dead 19 out of 20 games or more. So the exit is not a win for me and it doesn't mean the game was fair even if you do.
If the game is over in 1 minute because someone camped every single hook and immediate downed everyone who tried to unhook - that's not really fun and when it happens game after game for an hour. I call it a day and do something else. Not tunneling the same survivor so they don't get any real play time with the killer and group. Also not fun.
(I will say I have read instances where thew killer had to camp for various reasons. Maybe an achievement or it's end game and there has been some real play time for all. So it's not ALL Camping.)
Or you teammates are in a SWF not helping anyone but themselves or griefing - that to me is unfair play and does not make the game fun.
I'm sure for killers having a gen rush where the game is over in 2 minutes and they've not been able to really play probably feels the same way. If I see that. I put myself right in the killers path. If I die, so be it but if they walk away feeling like they had an okay game or a good one. Yup - that's a win.
A fun game, to me, is when both sides get to actually play. Chase, hook, unhook, get a gen, hook again etc. Play.
Then it's a win win and everyone has fun.
1 -
I guess I need to update the OP... I know the community has their own defined conditions for a win or loss in a game. However in their new MMR system they specifically mention "OBJECTIVELY FAIR FOR EVERYONE IN THE GAME." means they have conditions of their own that they define as fair.
They need to let the community know that so they know what to expect with the MMR system
0 -
If you wanted an official description wait for one the devs said they would give you one so rather then ask for it early and annoy people wait like everyone else.
1 -
I feel like you are not understand the point of this thread. Its meant to make sure the devs know they need to clarify this point for the community. No where in their current post do they specifically discuss what they are going to go over, they simply say
That’s great! We are planning on doing more posts explaining the system in detail, as well as Q&As with the developers who have been working on it. Keep your eyes on the forums and official Dead by Daylight social media channels to learn more.
Which doesn't mean they are going to clarify this specific issue. This thread really is only meant to make sure the devs understand that they need to clarify what this means.
0 -
I STILL HAVE QUESTIONS!
That’s great! We are planning on doing more posts explaining the system in detail, as well as Q&As with the developers who have been working on it. Keep your eyes on the forums and official Dead by Daylight social media channels to learn more.
I see the point of this thread is you want answers and can't read
why don't you just wait like everyone else :O
0 -
You can't read, that specifically says they are going to discuss what system is in more detail. It doesn't provide any specifics on what they are going to discuss. This thread is about a specific thing not a generalization.
The reason I want to make sure they specifically talk about this statement is because for years now the devs have said they want their game balanced around a 2k and to escape, yet this game still tells killers they have failed and loss the round if they get a 2k by displaying the message "Entity Displeased"
BHVR has never been great with words or choosing how to announce things, I know this and I believe many of them can admit to this. Shoot they have made at least two meme's out of their wording "pretty good job so far" and more recently "end game perk" with the ruin change.
I know and talk with the devs in their streams, I don't think BHVR does this on purpose or anything like that. I actually really love this game and have been in favor of almost every change they have done to date. But I am also smart enough to realize that they need to be asked specific questions.
I do not expect a dev to answer this thread, as it appears you think I do. They devs respond to like 3 out 30 threads, but they and their mods at least read most of them (And I freaking love when Pea's gets sassy in the threads). This is simply meant to make sure they understand they need to answer what "a fair match is" and that it isn't something they can gloss over.
Now excluding your inability to understand simple question so to help here is an example using their wording, just because they say something like "explaining the system in detail", this could simply mean they are going to explain how the system generates a MMR value, which could be things like, how fast the killer downed someone, did the killer slug everyone and only 1-hook every body, did the killer never use their power and relied on perks alone. All of which would be explaining the system in more detail, but doesn't really describe what an objectify fair match is.
0 -
If the devs never specifically state what is “objectively fair”, they can always say the system is working as intended. It’s the same thing as not showing MMR for folks you play against. It’s smoke and mirrors. These are the same devs that have given us the wonderful dedicated servers, busted sounds, what would have been busted rollback on ptb, currently busted matchmaking, busted optimization on console, busted anti-cheat. The list goes on and on.
”objectively fair” will never be defined because then the players will be able to point out how broken MMR is also
0 -
Yeah, but they have never said the ranking system is meant to be objectively fair, they did in their latest MMR announcement, meaning they kinda need to define it now.
0 -
Yes it says the will go into more detail with a Q&A soon as well as MAKE their own posts with MORE details Mr. I can read.
Heres a magic trick to make them come faster.................. Wait.
0 -
also lmao 3/30 can't bother to simplify that takes too long must type 3 paragraph essay that shows I can't read or wait.
0 -
Just going to state this again, because you still seem to not understand the point here. I'll even keep it short because you seem to dislike detailed responses.
Simply saying you will provide more information doesn't state what you will cover. BHVR has yet to even officially state what a fair game is, to the best we have the in game messages or what devs have said they try to balance for "2k/2 escape", which does not match in game messaging. This thread is not to get a response, its to make sure they cover this topic when they do discuss this topic in their Q&A or future posts.
Heres a magic trick to make them come faster.................. Wait.
I've already stated that I don't expect an answer from them in this thread. Oh wait, forgot you don't read...
0 -
The facts are all right there. They will cover the information they will disclose when they disclose it. When will they disclose it? wait and find out but expect it to happen some time soon.
Also the ideal FAIR GAME is people matched around the same mmr ???
Also for someone who "reads" you sure can't comprehend anything that you "read"
0 -
Also for someone who "reads" you sure can't comprehend anything that you "read"
that seems like something we can both agree on about each other. Now is probably a good time to end this debate.
0 -
You points are devs give me information and my points are devs said they will just wait.
The argument is that you can't read what the devs said
And my argument is that you can't read what the devs said
So sure lets end it but don't try to end it on the note that you were right when you clearly understood nothing that the devs said even while directly quoting them.
0 -
It was probably me misunderstanding as I didn't realize this was a response to info the devs said.
I have absolutely no clue how any game could be Objectively fair, unless it was all bots tbh.
Sorry not much help.
0 -
At this point, I am just going to assume you are [BAD WORD], because I simply quoted you and asked to end it. At no point did I try to state I was right in my final response or state you were wrong. I simply repeated your opinion you have of me, as its the same I share of you and asked to end it.
You then felt the need to try and make yourself sound correct and then end the conversation, which technically means I no longer just end the debate, because its conceding to you, which is wrong. Because your still missing the point no matter how many times I respond to you.
The point of this thread was never to enlist a response from the developers, it was simply to make sure they are aware that they should specifically state what makes a game "objectively fair". Your understanding of their wording is that they are going to answer every single question related to the MMR system, which given every other Q&A they have, I highly doubt that. I am saying, when they do release further information I want them to cover this information. I am not asking for a response now, as I've already stated numerous times.
Post edited by mouse0270 on0 -
gamered
0 -
I remember when killer with 31k bps and BBQ complained that 3 of us escaped.
1
