Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Fixing Worthless Perks day 4
Every day I will propose changes to 1 survivor perk and 1 killer perk to make them not unusable garbage like most perks are.
Survivor Perk: Sole Survivor - You work better alone. As long as you are alone, at least 20 meters away from other survivors, your aura cannot be read by anyone, and you perform repair, self care, vaulting, cleansing, chest searching, gate opening, trap opening, and trap set off actions 5/10/15% faster. Any cooperative and altruistic actions are performed 30% slower.
Killer Perk: Overwhelming Presence - Your presence alone instills great fear. Your terror radius is increased by 40%. Any survivors within your terror radius perform repairing, healing, and sabotaging actions 3/6/9% slower. Survivors in your terror radius item consumption rate is increased 100%. Items held by survivors in your terror radius will automatically degrade at a rate of 1% per second, even while in use.
Justifications: Sole Survivor is a perk I honestly don't even like the concept of, it's a cooperative game but is designed around being selfish. But it's a valid strategy to try, so I buffed it to really be a "solo survivor" perk. While alone you get a buff, while with other survivors you are weaker. Also I removed any and all aura reading on them as long as they are isolated meaning that while killer couldn't see them with BBQ, allies wouldn't be able to see them on the ground or even on a hook if they're far enough away.
Overwhelming Presence seems to want to counter item use so I buffed that aspect by giving a passive degradation to it. Terror radius is increased by a percentage so it benefits large terror radius killers more. On top of that, it slows down some actions by survivors as long as they're in your terror radius. I like the idea of a big Terror Radius build since we have the opposite idea used already on killers like Deathslinger.
I have proposed 8 perk changes so far. BHVR has made 0 perk changes since I started.
Comments
-
Man no wonder BHVR has changed 0 of 8 you proposed, every post like this you just make perks OP broken af.
11 -
I guess you enjoy a very stagnant set of 10 perks on both sides that are usable while over a hundred sit around completely unused. Perk changes have to be strong to even have a chance at replacing anything meta.
And BHVR not changing things has nothing to do with my or anyone else's suggestions. It's their own laziness. I'm just showing that a random person would be able to at least offer possibilities that don't exist in the game as it is now while BHVR sits with their thumbs up their asses.
If you have nothing constructive to say then go take yourself to another thread, your comment is as worthless as 90% of the perks in this game.
5 -
I will say that sole survivor's numbers are just a bit too high, in a vacuum they might be ok, but let's say you're running a vault build shall we. You could put it with resilience and spine chill and suddenly you're vaulting 30% faster when injured, which is absurd. Take that same build and turn it loose on gens and that's 24% faster even when not being looked at and not only that but you can't have your aura read. My suggestion would either be to do away with the loss of aura reading and make it more like 4/6/8%, or have the aura reading loss and make it more like a 3/4/5%.
Overwhelming presence honestly should not just flat out replace distressing with the 40% increase, 15-20% is probably fine. Also the item degradation I feel is unnecessary since you're already making them use it faster, the forever builds would love this perk with only the slowdown when in terror radius tbh
1 -
Sole Survivor seems a bit much since imagine dealing with people who split off and do gens. You have four survivors all doing gens 15% faster. That just does not sound fun to go up against. Honestly, it would make more sense if you got more bonuses to stuff the less survivors there are in the game, like with the aura reading of Soul Survivor now, but with the other junk.
Overwhelming Presence would be fine if you nipped either the "passive degradation" or the "100% increased speed of degradation" and just have one or the other. I agree with what Iron says about the terror radius increase as well.
1 -
Your overwhelming presence buff could be broken on certain maps with certain killers. Imagine dealing with a doctor on Gideon Meat Packing plant who is running overwhelming presence, he has add-ons that increase his terror radius size, so with an additional 40% size buff from Overwhelming presence you would be in his terror radium pretty much the whole game. Combine that with Thanatophobia for additional slower survivor action speed, Sloppy Butcher for mangled slower healing, and Coulrophobia for slower healing, and people would basically be unable to heal the whole game, forced to work on gens unhealed at very slow speeds.
I do think that Overwhelming needs to be changed, as slower item consumption is pretty worthless unless you're up against some annoying flashlight SWF (even then you are better off with franklin's demise usually), but just the 3/6/9% action speed decrease would be a good enough addition to the perk, the 40% terror radius size increase and passive degradation would make it broken.
0 -
See I would agree with you on the vault speed if killers wouldnt stop hitting me after I take 8 steps.
0 -
Where are you vaulting that you get caught that quickly afterwards? Vault speed builds can be extremely useful in loops and saved me at windows many, many times over
0 -
40% TR increase holy hell. Pair it with distressing and doctor's TR add-ons and coulrophobia
0 -
40% TR increase holy hell. Pair it with distressing and doctor's TR add-ons and coulrophobia
1 -
I see you misunderstood me. I meant I'll vault, take steps the killer swings at where I vault and still hits me.
0 -
Your posts and comments show astonishing arrogance and ignorance. You have obviously no clue about development, since you seem to demand the devs change perks on a daily basis. That's so outside of development reality, esp. with a rather small team like behaviour.
You just pull some stupid effects out of you a** two times a day, totally ignoring game balance issues that would arise with this, and claiming you are so good for suggesting your junk, and bhvr is so lazy bc they did not update any perks in the mean time. Totally oblivious to the fact that patches need WEEKS to be implemented, tested and published.
So add your suggestions as you like, maybe have a closer look at the balance, but for christ sake, remove this stupid disclaimer from your posts. It's just unrespectful, an invalid comparison and serves no purpose besides bragging like a douchebag.
1 -
So lets see if I'm following you here.
Sole Survivor: Take a much better Distortion and a much better Resilience and glue them together and give it an activation requirement that is drop dead easy to get. Sure you did put a small downside on it... but this perk is still busted beyond all reason. It does too much for too much for not enough cost.
Overwhelming Presence: Take a much better Distressing, a brand new mechanic that would probably fit better as a buff to Unnerving Presence, its current effect, then another brand new effect that also happens to be nearly impossible to counter or minimize, and throw them all together onto one perk. Again... you have built a perk that has way too much stuff in it with too many numbers.
0 -
Ah yes, latency does indeed suck, sorry I misunderstood.
0 -
That changed you proposed for sole survivor is utterly garbage, horrible idea. Same goes for Unnerving presence.
You can stop suggesting broken ideas. go do something more prodcutive
0 -
If every perk is OP, noone is!
0 -
so... 4 survivors running solo survivor, to do 4 gens alone faster... no pls XD
1 -
15% faster vaulting? 15%? Do you realize how insane that is?
0 -
The premise behind Sole Survivor is, at mentioned, you get buffs for every Survivor taken out of the game. A better buff might be something similar to what Left Behind used to do: offer action speed increases for each Survivor removed from the board. Nothing crazy like double digit percent, but enough that it provides a noticeable benefit. Or maybe add a benefit for each removed Survivor. As an off the cuff example
1 kill: increased chance to kobe
2 kills: increased action speed
3 kills: Not immediately killed on hook if in phase one
For Overwhelming Presence, would it be too powerful to items unusable, period, while in the Killer's terror radius? If so, would a reduced TR mitigate that?
0 -
Its ok
0 -
Sole Survivor: 15% and 30% are extremely big, maybe reducing to 6/7/8% for solo action and 25/22/19% to altruistic for example. Gen speed is already a big problem but overall it's a great rework idea.
Overwhelming Presence: Remove the extra terror radius, I think that only Distressing should make you have a bigger one (but currently its only 8 1/2 meters for a normal killer, maybe buff it in a future Fixing Worthless Perks?).
Keep fixing, I love to see your rework ideas.
0 -
BHVR has over 600 employees listed, obviously not all work on DBD, but DBD is their cash cow and should be shown some favoritism.
Other big multiplayer games DO have massive balance sweeps at least once a year, if not multiple times a year. BHVR made changes to a grand total of 31 perks in 2019, many of them winding up not being strong enough to compete with meta perks or being nerfs. There are over 150 perks and you're lucky to see 30 of them over the course of 100 games at red ranks.
I have worked on game development before as QA and I know what needs to pass for compliance. This game as it is now has multiple class C level bugs that haven't been solved for months. It passes compliance at the same level that games like Skyrim do, sure it won't crash but you will see bugs every time you play. And you can't tell me you think the balance of this game is fine when maybe 30 total perks see the light of day in actual games, certain killers are straight trash compared to others and stand no chance vs good players, and some maps still have infinite loops such as possible house spawns at Lampkin and the house with the downstairs generator at Badham.
I'm not talking out of my ass when I say BHVR could and should do more. They claim this game is casual so why the hell are they so unwilling to make big changes to try things out? The only reason is an unwillingness to do so, or a fundamental misunderstanding of the balance of the game and thinking things are perfect for some reason.
0 -
And 600 employees is not a big number! Compare it to Riot with 2.4k or Blizzard with 4.5k. I also would argue that "massive balance sweeps" are much easier for games like LOL and Overwatch. These games are more or less symmetrical, multiple players on each side, with all champions / heroes roughly the same power level. If there's a character a bit behind in power, you can just buff him a bit and see how it goes. Even if you buff was a little to strong, since there are 10 or 12 players overall it balances itself out. With DBD, we have an asymetrical game, 4vs1, with different power levels. If you buff a killer to much, it will have a heavy impact on the survivor side, there's nothing to "regulate" that.
Yes we may have got only a small number of changes. BUT we got SO MANY other stuff added to the game: New Killers, Survivors, Maps. Killer Reworks. Dedicated Servers, Rift and Archives, Charms. Sure not all as important for everyone. And currently they are working on the match making. And let's not forget, we also have the Corona pandemic impacting the business. They are doing a hell lot of stuff, implying they do nothing and chilling their n*ts and just milking their cash cow, thats just unfair and uncalled for.
0 -
600 employees is plenty to maintain a game such as this. Dota 2 has a very small development team, 40-50 people total, and embarrasses this game with the amount of updates and the size of said updates. CS:GO has a 30-40 person dev team and likewise outdoes DBD. The only reason BHVR doesn't do more balance changes is because they're unwilling to do so.
*BUT we got SO MANY other stuff added to the game:*
Any survivor addition is just a slightly new model, textures, and voices. They all function the same, and likely they have a base model they make minor changes to for each new survivor. Art wise it's a day or two of work, then you have voice acting and programming and it's done. The killers take more work because they actually impact the game with their power, look unique, and move in unique animations, so that's fair. But, there are a lot of poorly balanced additions, especially when it comes to perks, add-ons, and maps. And any time something is poorly balanced it either gets ignored or takes ages to even have a minor change unless it is an extreme example such as MoM.
Lampkin Lane is a map released in 2016 and is still horribly balanced garbage that everyone knows is horribly balanced. Trapper has been a dumpster tier killer since the game's release. And as I've emphasized every day, 90% of perks are worthless and rightfully go completely ignored and unused.
Sure the devs are pushing new stuff out every couple months, but it's still poorly balanced stuff. Their QUALITY is bad, even if their quantity is high, and more and more people are calling them out on it as time goes on. Even their own fog whisperers are finding it hard to keep their mouths shut. The devs spend more time getting hold of licenses and going through legal channels to add licensed stuff than they do making sure the balance of what they add is good, and that's the problem.
Covid is no excuse when it's only existed for a few months while balance issues have existed for years unchanged (like Trapper and Wraith, both launch killers, being extremely low tier killers). There's no reason for you to defend them so staunchly, you're not on their payroll and anything I say will ultimately make no impact on them. Likely, not a single dev beyond at most a community manager will ever even glance at my posts. The corporation that made over $100 million last year doesn't need you to protect them from my mean words.
0 -
I don't have much to add as I agree those numbers are too high for most of the reasons listed above. Additionally 15% gen progress for only 20m means swf's would likely prefer this over coop genning for the 12 second reduction, which is a serious issue as swf's get gen's done too fast as it is. Also I don't like the idea of a perk directly affecting self-care.
Post edited by Mozzie on0 -
"The only reason BHVR doesn't do more balance changes is because they're unwilling to do so."
"The devs spend more time getting hold of licenses and going through legal channels to add licensed stuff than they do making sure the balance of what they add is good, and that's the problem."
Oh sorry, I did not recognize that you have ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE, and know everything that's going on at BHVR, so your judgement must be the ultimate right, my bad.
"90% of perks are worthless and rightfully go completely ignored and unused."
Thats complete bs. Yes there are weak perks, esp. the recent ones. You wrote in your last comment, in 100 games you wouldn't encoutner more than 30 different perks. I challenge you to actually do that and keep track of the used perks. There will be more, I'm certain of that. Of course not all are as good as the meta perks, but there are far more that you claim to be worthless which are actually quite decent. Why don't you list me the 10% perks you deem to be useful, and list you additional perks you missed?
I don't get this omnipresent hate towards the devs in this forum. It seems they can do nothing right, everthing that happens is blamed on them. Even bullshit talking points like you are using, which are no real issue or higjhly exagerated (imo). And all the things the get right are just totally ignored, or get spinned in the opposite direction. A recent example is the billy rework. The whole forum whining about that he was nerfed to much (which he was, to bo fair) and ADDITIONALY, thet BHVR will NEVER change anything after the PTB, bc the do not listen. Then they actually DO listen, tweak the heat mechanic, so its not as punishing, and then there's whining that the devs cater for killers. Like SERIOUSLY??
1 -
The short version is people are jerks who tend to accentuate the negative.
I've seen the same thing. The devs so much as breathe and people go nuts with complaining. Makes it very hard to take that complaining seriously, since the sea of negativity drowns out any legitimate issues that might be buried in the vitriol.
1 -
That was some really well-worded summary, thanks :)
0 -
Dude, please stop. You're making yourself sound like more and more of an ass with each response.
0 -
Thank you. In Hindsight I probably should have used "submerged" instead of "buried", but ah well.
0 -
xD
0 -
*Why don't you list me the 10% perks you deem to be useful, and list you additional perks you missed?*
Sure, this is purely from rank 1 game perspective perks probably vary more at lower ranks. The following Survivor perks are used extremely commonly (see at least one almost every game): Decisive Strike, Unbreakable, Iron Will, Borrowed time, Spine Chill, Adrenaline, Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, Prove Thyself
The following survivor perks are used somewhat commonly (I'm not surprised to see): Kindred, Lithe, Balanced Landing, Head On, Quick and Quiet, Self-Care, Object of Obsession, Soul Guard, Resilience, Urban Evasion
The following survivor perks are rare (i see one every few games): Inner Strength, Deliverance, Bond, Botany Knowledge, Small game, For the People, We'll Make It.
The following survivor perks are basically never used (I'm lucky to see them at all): Aftercare, Flip-Flop, Alert, Fixated, Dance with Me, Autodidact, Distortion, Mettle of Man, Tenacity, Second Wind, Diversion, Lightweight, Detective's Hunch, We're gonna Live Forever, Windows of Opportunity, Leader, Breakout, Plunderer's Instinct, Breakdown, Buckle Up, Ace in the Hole, Dark Sense, Off the Record, Stake Out, Better Together, Left Behind, Any Means Necessary, BLood Pact, Vigil, Red Herring, Pharmacy, Repressed Alliance, Saboteur, Boil Over, Streetwise, Poised, Hope, Solidarity, Calm Spirit, Premonition, Open Handed, Technician, Babysitter, Comaraderie, Wake Up!, No One Left Behind, Deja Vu, Lucky Break, This is Not Happening, Slippery Meat, Up the Ante, Sole Survivor.
The following Killer perks are extremely common: BBQ and Chili, Pop goes the weasel, Corrupt Intervention, Nurse's Calling, Save the Best for Last, Monitor and Abuse, Infectious Fright, Sloppy Butcher, Enduring, Brutal Strength, Whispers, Hex: Ruin
The following Killer perks are somewhat common: Discordance, Surveillance, Bamboozle, Thrilling Tremors, Thanatophobia, Spirit Fury
The following Killer perks are rare: Play with your Food (Bubba only), Nemesis (Bubba only), Hex: No One Escapes Death, I'm all Ears, Stridor (Spirit only), Shadowborn
The following Killer perks are basically never used: Hex: Devour Hope (even though I think it's decent), Monstrous Shrine, Overwhelming Presence, Territorial Imperative, Mindbreaker, Insidious, Predator, Zanshin Tactics, Gearhead, Hangman's Trick, Forced Penance, Coulrophobia, Beast of Prey, Furtive Chase, Unrelenting, Bloodhound, Cruel Limits, Deerstalker, Trail of Torment, Hex: The Third Seal, Distressing, Spies from the Shadows, Dead Man's Switch, Blood Echo, Mad Grit, Unnerving Presence, Iron Grasp, Hex: Retribution, Dying Light, Lightborn, Iron Maiden, Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, Hex: Huntress Lullaby, Remember Me, Overcharge, Knock Out, Tinkerer, Rancor, Dark Devotion, Agitation, Hex: Haunted Ground, Make your Choice, Blood Warden, Surge, Bitter Murmer, Fire Up, Deathbound, Franklin's Demise.
I literally wrote down what I saw for 100 games and it didn't surprise me even one bit that I didn't see most perks in the game. In fact, a LOT of perks I wrote down as "used" were seen ONCE in all those games and I was giving more credit than one should.
Perks are in a HORRIBLE spot. You can spend a day playing killer and tracking survivor perks at rank 1 and see no more than 10 perks used all day.
Watch any killer stream and every single game they will mention the following perks "DS, BT, Unbreakable, Spine chill, DH, SB, Other Exhaustion perk." Watch any survivor stream and they'll talk about the following perks "BBQ, Pop, Infectious, Nurse's, Hex: Ruin, Hex: Noed, Sloppy." Every single game. Every game, 100% of games those perks are thought about because they are that pervasive while so many other perks are unused. Not underused, but completely unused.
*I don't get this omnipresent hate towards the devs in this forum. It seems they can do nothing right, everthing that happens is blamed on them. Even bullshit talking points like you are using, which are no real issue or higjhly exagerated (imo). And all the things the get right are just totally ignored, or get spinned in the opposite direction. A recent example is the billy rework. The whole forum whining about that he was nerfed to much (which he was, to bo fair) and ADDITIONALY, thet BHVR will NEVER change anything after the PTB, bc the do not listen. Then they actually DO listen, tweak the heat mechanic, so its not as punishing, and then there's whining that the devs cater for killers. Like SERIOUSLY?*
Again, in 2019 BHVR changed 31 perks. 31 perks isn't even the list of just killer or just survivor perks that are unused. Their work speaks for itself on this matter.
As for the Billy nerfs, people are angry about that because they called it a "minor change" but it's a huge nerf and everyone that tried him on the PTB said it's a huge nerf. Then they backed off on a bit, despite large public desire for the changes to be dropped completely. So at the end of the day they ignore audience members from both killer and survivor sides that said they like Billy without the overheat and to change some op add-on combos. It's very expected that people are still upset about it because BHVR didn't listen to what people wanted. This is probably the only high tier killer that survivor mains like to play against and said they didn't want changed, but BHVR still pushed through with it. OFC they're going to get ######### for that.
There will always be complaining, some justified, some unjustified. But fact is when I said 90% of perks are worthless, it is backed up by thousands of hours of streamers on Twitch. If you aren't watching someone play a build a viewer donated to them, or I guess a huge streamer messing around, you will not see most perks even once during that entire stream, or even during a full month of them streaming.
0 -
OK, so you got some stats about usage, nice. But you use this usage percentage to rate a perks usefullness. Which is not suitable to prove your claim that 90% perks are worthless. All it does is showing which perks are picked more often, so this ones will be the meta perks. But just because a perk is not picked so often does not make it inherently bad. There are just other perks deemed better. This approach is suitable to prove thjat 10 % of the perks are meta and useful, but that does not automatically imply that the other 90% are not. And if the meta should really change someday, this effect likely would still be the same, that 20% of the perks are used in 80% of the matches (see Pareto principle).
After Care for example is a really good perk, which will allow you to see at least one other survivor for the most part of the trail, without a max range. You just loose it again when hooked, but since you normally need another one to rescue you, you will see that one again. Only at the start, when you didn't heal or unhook someone, or when you unhok yourself, will you NOT have any benefit from it. Esp. when you see all three, it gives you so much information. Since the others see you as well, you can even try to contest gens when only two surfs are left. Sure it may not be needed with SWF, and bond or empathy may be better in general, but by no means I would rate this perk "worthless".
Dance with me is great together with Q&Q or Lithe (or both). On it's own it's meh, but together with these others it allows you to escape chases really good, the killer thinking you just vanished. "But it doesn't work on its own!" Sure, but it's more or less the same for Unbreakable and DS. Unbreakable on its own is not so great, since normally you wouldn't be left on the ground. But the mere existance of DS gives you more possibilities to use it.
So I ask you again, which perks are REALLY useless? Something like Up the Ante totally is. Red Herring or Diversion are really just for memes. And many other rarely used perks are really underwhelming. But thats far from 90% of all perks, I assure you! Many of the rarely used perks you need to utilize in a some way compared to the meta i-don't-need-to-do-anything-and-still-get-the-effect perks. It's not the fault of the perks, imo, but the laziness or lack of creativity with many survivor players. Together with the (skewed) view that DS or BT are strictly necessary bc of Campers / Tunnelers. Sure they exist, but I would argue that quite a few players enforce tunneling and camping bc of their playstyle, playing overly aggressive with DS or doing unhooks in the killers face bc of BT. They equip perks to help them in bad situations they are creating themselves bc of the equipped perks. A feedback loop, if you will. Sure, NOT ALL play this way. But it's really common to experience a person being unhooked just seconds after the hooking, and thats only possible bc of BT. It is not used to counter a camper at all, but to make bold (or idiotic) move.
0 -
My ######### God he is just suggesting some changes, BHRV can simply change numbers to make perk viable but she does at a such slow rate, they tweaked 4 perks in 2 months this guy completely changed 16 in 3 weeks. If you don't have anything better to do just ######### yourself but just don't add more useless text in this comments section.
0 -
More like this guy pulled 16 stupidly overpowered or downright broken "changes" out of his a** without even considering how they would impact game balance. And that all in a patronizing and arrogant way it's sickening. And then he compares his "effort" with the devs, claiming he is so good in coming up with perk changes where the devs did not change any in the mean time. You do recognizes how heavily flawed that comparison is? It takes 5 minutes to come up with some crazy stupid idea, compared to like at least a day for actually implementing and testing a perk chance. Even "tweaking some number" needs some testing.
"If you don't have anything better to do just [BAD WORD] yourself but just don't add more useless text in this comments section."
Oh, the irony in this one. Which comments are more useful? My harsh critique about the OPs perk suggestions and his attitude towards the devs, or your blatant call and insult to shut me down? I wonder ...
0 -
Making any of this suggested changes wouldn't make any of this perks OP, they could became meta, but we still have a lot of much stronger options, like...what would be more OP? 4 SWF with reworked no Mither/ reworked Lucky Break/ Iron Will and DH that some people called "Unbalanced" or 4 SWF with DS/ Unbreakable/ For The People and Soul Guard? Looks like the devs prefer to nerf Knockout than buff Mind Breaker in ANY way, they just changed 2 numbers and made Tinkerer a viable perk, so why not just do this to Distressing and make it double your terror radius?
0 -
You sure are fanboying here. Yes, not all suggestions are over the top, I give you that. But still with many perks he is just stuffing so much diffrent effects into it, without ANY downside, which would make other existing perks totally obsolete. Since you are stating swf, imagine a four men with all using his Sole survivor. Everyone splits up and does a gen 15% faster. If you can't see how busted that is, i cannot help you.
0 -
If you go to the Sole Survivor discussion you will see I was one of the first ones to critic it, but while he makes OP perks BHVR does nothing.👍️
0 -
Dude, changing useless perks to overpowered level is bad way to "change meta". xD Also he was more constructive than you. He explained everything to you in one sentence. :)
0 -
They just updated 6 perks recently, but thats "nothing", sure. Could it be more? YES. But you are just telling bs it you say they changed nothing. Also we all know how BHVR handles their updates. There are chapter and mid-chapter patches, were actual changes will be done, and besides there are hotfixes for fixing urgent bugs. It's really lame to trashtalk the devs for their lack of perk changes, when it is CLEAR FROM THE START that the next changes will come with the next (Mid-)Chapter patch. Again, it could be more changes sure.
"while he makes OP perks" NO he is not for f*cks sake! He has no obligation to actually implement his stuff. He only makes stupid-or-not suggestions without any real effort. Stop comparing that to actual development work, it's heavily flawed and just hypocrisy.
0
