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On break, thought about the game, realised that he past proves balancing bias towards survivors.

Now, this is just my opinion so feel free to chew me out because it differs from yours.

So i am on a break now the event has ended and i couldn't handle my frustration as either killer, survivor or swf player, mainly because i don't go meta builds and therefore get curb stomped most of the time.

While i was kinda reflecting on how i enjoyed the game for these four years i thought about a certain thing that made me wonder why nobody uses it as an example for the bias towards survivors. The solution to the slugging meta.

Let me explain, the reason the slugging meta came to be was because there was a saboteur meta on the survivors side, i'm sure most of us remember the old days were you'd down someone, pick them up and see... no hooks for almost three minutes. Then you remembered that the lobby was 4 Jakes with toolboxes [R.I.P if you were trapper btw] and so, you decided to just let them lay there and think about what they'd done, why give them a free struggle when they actively went out of their way to give themselves up to 3 minutes of hooking immunity?

And as history goes, survivors were quite vocal about this and like this forum proves, they ######### and moan about it and when a killer speaks their side you are 'entitled' this also goes vice versa but most of the time killers keep their mouth shut [in my opinion, rip and tear into me boys] but there were a good amount of them that explained why and how.

so Behaviour listened to both sides, went to work and made... Unbreakable, No Mither, flip-flop and a couple more ways to deal with those pesky sluggers while keeping their hands of the sabo meta. Killers said that they felt powerless because there were no hooks and these guys could just get up on their own or get their wiggle a good chunk by being slugged and that is without a person coming to pick them up or putting a [as back in the day] insta heal/enduring bottle [name slips by me] on them.

So behaviour took another look, saw the problem and made... knockout and a fuckton of blindness stuff. You know, the most useless effect unless everyone isn't paying attention to where sounds came from.

Now i'm not saying they weren't trying but the best solution to this sabo meta and what ultimatily forced it to evolve into a niche build that is fun [in my opinion again] was the recent changes [as in, death slinger recent] to sabotaging a hook. The 30-45 seconds make it a much more 'in the moment' thing and promote taking risks on other survivors ends.

Slugging is now rooted into the game and while it isn't a meta rn neither was the sabo meta as it had died down by this point but these slug builds and mentality were born from survivors quite literally sabotaging a killer's objective. I am personally amused when i see survivors complain about it or when i see killers defend it. Both are wrong, it is a necessity because it was made to be, the game became balanced around someone being slugged, someone being in chase, somoen being on hook and one going to help either of the three. Sadly balancing the game this way has allowed the 'gen rush' as some may call it as in most games, there will only be one chase while three are one gens.

But perhaps i am just being nostalgic to the days were you entered a round and went "######### off, it's a mori" or Pling Pling Pling Pling "######### Jakes" Or the times that hatch did feel clutch as you tricked the killer into hitting you so you got the jump without being grabbed or you faked the survivor out and got that grab as he tried to get it.

Comments

  • MeatBycicle
    MeatBycicle Member Posts: 756

    Of course it is, that's 4/5ths of their player base.

  • derppug
    derppug Member Posts: 239

    These posts are getting tired.

  • derppug
    derppug Member Posts: 239
  • Vibe_plant
    Vibe_plant Member Posts: 26

    I see, good to know that you care enough to be tired by it but not enough to read :)

  • T2K
    T2K Member Posts: 635

    Hm, I thought quite different about it. I dont think slugging got popular because the sabotage meta. When they saboed hooks which didnt respawn everyone was running iron grasp and hooked them in the basement. So I experienced an iron grasp/agiation thing going on because of saboing. But that was quite back then. Later on sabo got a hype again, but didnt make it to meta imo. You needed a full 4 man with certain perks to attempt it. It was more like a fun/meme thing. But that was the time when no mither and unbreakable was already a thing. The best option was always playing for basement in these games.

    Keep also in mind the game was a totally different experience in the old days. Playstyles, skill, killers, hook spawns, survs, maps etc advanced up to now.

    I dont think slugging was rooted because of sabo. I think it got so popular because of realizing the strength in it. Also now slugging is really strong even though there are all the anti slug perks. I think the hatch mechanic promoted slugging even more.

    I dont really understand your point about biased balance towards survs. You explained yourself that there were things implemented on both sides changing things up. Mby you can clarify to me

  • SaltedSnow
    SaltedSnow Member Posts: 309

    If I were the OP, I'd use the bug fixes as examples of survivor bias; nurse gets a hard-to-pull-off bug that lets her move super fast? Instantly patched. Nurse has a bug that causes her to permanently lose a bunk charge? Been in the game since her rework.

  • T2K
    T2K Member Posts: 635

    Im not a dev but I think there are different kind of bugs with different urgencies and difficulties. I dont know about that charge bug on nurse.

    Further more I dont think a list of bug fixes will prove any bias. How would it?

    Maybe to dive a little bit deeper here, which bug is more important? A bug that affects 4 of 5 people, or a bug that affects 1 out of five and can be avoided for the time being by picking another playable character. Im not saying its ok for any bug to be not fixed, but I think there are maybe more urgent problems and certain fixes that would take a lot of time should be delayed for that.

  • SaltedSnow
    SaltedSnow Member Posts: 309

    While it may be an uncommon bug, the speedy nurse one was just as uncommon. They're both game-ruining bugs, and surely "it's patched because it affects 4/5 players" is admitting that they favour survivors.

  • T2K
    T2K Member Posts: 635

    I think you could read that into it. But dbd is so intransparent that you cant use it as a fact. "If something affects the majority, its more urgent" is not showing any bias. Im sorry but if it is that game breaking Im sure the forum would be filled with it or I would have at least heard of it.

  • Vibe_plant
    Vibe_plant Member Posts: 26

    As i stated, it is just how i saw it happen when i played in the early days, slugging wasn't too common unless you did all the sabo strat. Maybe i was unlucky but i would always face the 4 jakes and like i said, i'm not saying it has gotten popular and stayed just because of this sabo meta, it had died out long before they 'fixed' it however i do believe the strenght of slugging was discovered as a response to it.


    As for what i meant for why it balancing seems to favor survivors because of it, they gave survivors allot of their get up yourselves as the response to it. I know there was the agitation/iron grasp combo that was also popular but in my own experience from back in the day, slugging was more popular until the release of Bill and eventually David.

    They never touched the sabo meta until it was completely dead and nothing more than a fun/meme build as you said yourself, while slugging was constantly being discouraged with new perks every other survivor. I understand why and i assume they were trying to find a middle ground however they then also promoted slugging with other perks or redesigns of perks [although og ds was more bullshit] over the longer time. As i said, maybe i was just being nostalgic and am seeing things from a different window in an attempt to pin point where my frustrations with the game lie and where they started but i do believe their bias isn't because they prefer survivor over killer but because all survivors are the same, so if they just fix it from the survivor side they only need to look at it once however by doing so many changes on one side they've left behind the other who's internal issues only grew until they were too urgent to ignore.

    I just think the reason everyone feels like survivors have so many 'second chance' perks and killers are being 'punished' [two ideas i'm not agreeing with although i personally think survivors hold too much control over the killer. Mainly fault of matchmaking so i'll hold my tongue until the MMR system is out.] is because they go into survivors to fix killer and survivor problems.

    And again, this is just how i feel about it, i'm probably wrong but mhe, i didn't come here to be the know all and bastion of fact.

  • T2K
    T2K Member Posts: 635

    Thats a really good point here, I think that would make an awesome discussion on its own:

    Are Devs trying to fix the game by going into survivors to fix problems on both sides?

    Thanks btw for clarification. Got u

  • anarchy753
    anarchy753 Member Posts: 4,212

    What? Saboutage was completely out of the meta for like 3 years straight, it was insanely rare that you'd get a squad of sabs. I think I got like 2 in that entire time. It's only recently come back with reworks and it's sitting in a pretty ok spot for both sides.

  • Vibe_plant
    Vibe_plant Member Posts: 26

    I never said that sabo remained meta for these 4 years. I was saying that their attempt to fix the counter-meta that came from it [The full on slug games, in my opinion again] is something that they have being trying to fix by giving survivors the bandaids without ever adressing the wound itself and years after it all happened they returned and changed it.

    And as i said, i think the reworks were great for it.