SWFs don't talk to each other especially when they don't know each other?
In the video clip I removed silence and general chat to see if they were right as to whether they gave locations and for areas/targets to avoid or focus on in our loop and time critical management game.
These survivors were chilled and kept confirming they didn't cheat or abuse chat.
If this game is being balanced then let people play with their friends but not at a disadvantage to others fun.
There is a reason SWFs are avoided by killers and BHVR refuse to display post game SWF information, we all know it is an unfair advantage over other players so why don't BHVR fix this? @Peanits @not_Queen
Comments
-
2 SWF threads about you.
Tell me, what did that nea with that purple flashlight did to you?
5 -
I am still not convinced that SWF is a problem. The way I interpret these complaints is there are players who have mastered the game, and even though ‘I’ seemingly mastered it as well I am not playing at a level to consistently win these matches.
We all go in and out of potato. I can look like an absolutely maestro one match then do really bad ~20k bloodpoints, zero kills the next two. It’s not a problem in the system. Some players are just great.
What I think is hilarious is a player could look like just a god survivor the first chase then crumble later and just give up.
5 -
Do you have any suggestions of how you’d balance the game around SWF in a way that doesn’t punish solo players who also happen to be in their lobby?
4 -
somebody got hurt
5 -
People have been talking about it an a very good solution is to just debuff only SWF survivors similar to dying light or thana.
Solo survivors would work on gens at the same speed they do now.
4 SWFs would have a static debuff then add a debuff of x multipled by 4 (the number in this SWF example)
0 -
Wouldn’t that also punish the solo survivor though? Because essentially they’re in a lobby with people who can’t do objectives as quick as they can. Not every SWF is on mic either. I used to play with a guy from France and we never spoke on mic. We just liked playing together as we were both good survivors and could rely on each other. Why would it be fair for us to receive a repairing drawback when we’re technically both solo survivors?
4 -
Interesting you bring up the only two reasonable arguments against balancing SWFs.
Firstly SWFs need to be debuffed due to the speed and how optimised they are, e.g. one person going to hook, where to do the generator or heal etc. It could be argued that a solo survivor gains an advantage playing with an optimised SWF.
Secondly there are very very few that are in a SWF that don't communicate with each other as i've been told it is a new century. I've heard of this but most use mics as even basic words convey information such as killer shack, noed totem, you learn the key words together. I'd look at this as a chance to improve your friendship and swat up on your french skills.
0 -
I don’t really like talking on mic whilst I play. I’m not much of a people person. Plus, the French guy isn’t good with English. So he’s the main reason we don’t talk over mic. Believe it or not, but not everybody wants to be in a party chat 24/7 whilst they play. I’ve had plenty of survivors add me as a friend without any intention to talk in a party. They just want to play with me as they know I’m a reliable teammate. That can be enough for some people.
3 -
As things stand I believe the majority of matches with SWFs abuse the imbalance and even more so on console.
Daily there are players who are willing to play killer out there that are suffering because of this and because of this the game suffers.
It is unfortunate that you don't like using comms or that you both don't wish to bond closer and learn a new language but think about the betterment of the game.
0 -
So, because of the small minority of rank 1 clicky flashlight squads, we're also going to punish the groups with massively different ranks who are just trying to have some fun with their buddies?
The only fair way I can think of to reduce the advantage of SWF (however large or small it may be) is to buff solo queue to close the gap in between SWF and solo. That just makes balancing the game easier. SWF may still have a slight advantage and solo may have a slight disadvantage, but if the difference isn't significant, oh well.
1 -
I play killer a lot and don’t suffer against SWF? I actually find them easier to beat than solo lobbies. 🤷🏻♂️
1 -
I'm sure someone keeps copy and pasting that statement XD.
I've played yellow to red and I'm sure you've had good games. If you want to talk about whether they are easy to beat then I've seen them collapse after a killer hooks someone in the basement and the other two rush in and end up on the hook with 5 gens left. I've also seen killers destroyed.
Quite simply SWFs are basically solos but with comms making them have better 'perks'.
To speculate BHVRs in-action what probably what they are believing keeps this game alive. A game where you don't have to be good if you are using communications you'll do quite well which is probably why there is quite a resistance to actually do anything but mention the word 'balancing'.
The video above shows a team with 2 good players, not exceptional just good. The other two are average but they somehow nearly complete 5 gens whilst the killer sweats away. The somehow is in the communication, they aren't a SWAT team but they know who is going for the saves, whether it is likely to be safe, which generators are being worked on, sloppy is identified early on, there is shock when the killer appears unexpectedly, there is an expectancy that the killer should give hatch as previous killer have if they don't wriggle etc. The fact this is a PvP but BHVR aren't balancing SWF makes you think.
1 -
Ive had random people send me friend requests on steam and invite people to swf but no voice chat.
However others do use voice chat. Not gonna lie I use it sometimes and its very helpful but thats only as part of a 2 man swf so its not completely gamebreaking. It just helps counter the potatoes we get paired with
0 -
Erm, I'm not sure you've replied to the right post... clicky flishlight squads?
Punish groups? Any group of friends using communications have an advantage at whatever rank. We can all try and have fun on a balanced game and not at the killers expense... can't we?
Buffing solo queue sounds interesting but what does that mean? Does it mean buffing perks like Kindred? If so you're only buffing SWFs as well.
The slight advantage or disadvantage is down to how much you use the information well, take this video as an example. They aren't using information very well, it isn't a SWAT team but they are giving information away to each other for more optimum gen completion. In fact the more they become under more pressure they start to use comms better to try and win but at the end of the game (or start of the video) they reconfirm to themselves that they hardly use comms.
0 -
it isn't SWF that's the problem, it's the 3rd party software that allows for instant voice communication that is the problem, giving you a massive advantage that the devs never intended on the survivors having
0 -
SWFs are going to play together rather we like it or not. If they are communicating it’s probably through a 3rd party took such as Discord for example. But either way. That is not something BHVR can change. People honestly can’t sit there and expect players who want to enjoy the game with their friends to be punished so the killer can be happy. Yes it’s unfair that the killer doesn’t get the advantage of communication but that’s how it goes with a game that is designed for 4v1. Blame BHVR on that not others. Every thread I see of this it’s always over the top with what people expect. This should be nerfed if they are together or that shouldn’t be a thing if it’s swfs and this and that. It’s stupid. If you don’t like playing against swf then tough. This game is made for people to play together.
0 -
Here's an example of what voice comms in discord sound like when I'm in a swf:
2 people talking about animal crossing while doing gens
1 person talking about how ######### work was while being chased by the killer
1 person bitching about politics searching chests
3 people playing Destiny 2, giving callouts in the same voice channel, because they're also chatting about animal crossing with the DBD players
1 person laughing hysterically to Drag Race over the mic not playing either of the games.
Random bursts of:
"OH SH**!!!"
"SON OF A B****!"
"THAT WAS A BULLS***! HIT"
"[EAR PIERCING SCREAM FROM BEING PULLED OFF A GEN BY A SCRATCHED MIRROR MEYERS]"
"Wait, when did we get 3 gens done?"
Some games, we all escape, some games we get utterly destroyed. But we had fun because we played with each other.
The voice chat is pretty much the same when playing solo or killer, too.
🤷
2 -
I think this massive advantage just might be overrated. Other posters in this thread are giving better examples than I am. Just know that for sure if you’re bad solo, you’re probably bait in the SWF. Yeah, there’s honor in being bait, but the team isn’t necessarily going to be crushing.
We’re not all tournament level.
Maybe play in a SWF yourself. Despite the dev’s ‘never intending’ for this third party software, they set up a discord channel with many many rooms so we can meet up and play.
0 -
Kind of a weak reply, you're saying tough luck killers and yes this game should be made for people to play together but with some attempt at balance. Sure it will never be perfect but at the moment a SWF member is a solo survivor with extras.
I agree there does seem to be some confusion in that people think SWF is the problem but most play using 3rd party communications, now another solution would be for the game to have comms in-built but with mute players options like other games.
Have you seen the video above? They weren't a SWAT team, this is actually showing the advantages of a single game but excluding the animal crossing conversations. That is basically the point of this post, to show SWF teams using comms, like the linked video how they believed they weren't talking much about the game to gain an advantage by using communications but the video shows it differently to what actually happened.
The game involves skill for loops when being chased but also is time management on the survivor side in getting the generators completed then getting out which communications helps a-lot. Whether it be a massive advantage or not it is still an advantage that BHVR aren't balancing and ignore since SWF was introduced.
"Other posters in this thread are giving better examples than I am" - Please could you highlight them.
"We're not all tournament level" - You don't have to be, that is why the game has ranks. This is about balancing the game.
Dev's are unable to monitor who is using what communications from Discord to someone sat in the same room so aren't able to classify it as an offence. The encouragement by communities to SWF with randoms who then use communications just further shows the imbalance not being addressed.
I have also played in SWFs and using communications and at the time having played survivor and killer frequently I could use that experience to make that killers day quite hard to kill us all in each match.
BHVR have and are working hard addressing other unfair issues like god loops to balance the game.
If you notice I haven't put any figures to slow down SWF players, this could be a milli-second to an hour but the unfair of SWFs over solo players needs to be addressed and has to be for the fairness and fun for everyone who loves DBD.
0 -
You are definitely the exception. Almost everybody playing any game online is using discord or another chat software
1 -
I'm just using "clicky flashlight squads" as a euphemism for SWF that are playing both optimally (and probably a bit toxic), which is what most people are complaining about when they want to nerf SWF.
When I play with my buddies, we're usually a big mix of ranks. I'm typically red rank, my most common partner is typically green, and we might get maybe another purple player or a brand new guy depending on the day (I have a handful of buddies who rarely play but they'll jump every once in a while, especially if they see a squad together). On days where we have a new player we typically get 4k'd almost every game because new players have absolutely no chance against against competent killers and they end up basically torpedoing our squad. We don't really mind, though, because we're just there to have a good time with friends. It would be pretty sad to have an additional debuff applied just because we're partied up, because with squads like that we're definitely going to be at a disadvantage from having to carry a baby survivor through every trial. With that said, I'll have other nights where I'm with a few people around my rank who know what they're doing, and we definitely have an advantage in those trials. It's not overwhelming and we definitely don't share information as optimally as we could, but it can still be like having 5 perks each because of the extra information we get. As killer I definitely see a similar split - sometimes you'll see baby survivors getting carried by much more competent teammates or teams that make dumb plays for the laughs or to save a buddy, and sometimes you have the sweaty neon Nea squad basically playing like they have a hive mind.
The difference in the quality of SWF is why I'd like to see solo queue buffed. What I mean by that is generally just closing the information gap between solo queue and SWF. For example, it would be great to add more gestures to the game beyond just pointing and beckoning so that solo survivors can better communicate with their teammates. It'd also be nice to see a totem counter in the HUD so solo survivors know if they need to worry about NOED towards the end of the game. Another idea would be putting an indicator in the HUD when any survivor is in a chase, instead of just for the obsession. Buffs like these would probably make the survivor side as a whole more competitive (I say "probably" because the killer could also benefit from additions like a totem counter or a chase indicator - for example, "Is the Blendette I'm chasing the one I already hooked, or not?" "Is my NOED going to proc when they finish the last gen, or not?"), but it would also close the information gap between SWF and solo queue without relying on perks. So, while BHVR might have to make some buffs to killer to compensate, SWF would be a lot less big of a deal.
0 -
I see what you mean about "clicky flashlight squads", no it's not really what I'm talking about in this post. This post is mostly about a video of a competent SWF who believed they weren't talking about the game to gain an advantage by using communications but when you remove the silence and early chit-chat you see that they are but are still unaware they are doing so after the game ends.
I don't envy BHVR when trying to balance this game as it has come on leaps and bounds since early release.
I see two routes and maybe a third...
One I especially enjoy playing is when survivors don't know where the killer is or their team, a more scary / horror like experience but can be filled with potatoes when in lower ranks. This would be a choice the survivor and killer chooses to be a solo queue or SWF queue but obviously could affect wait times but perhaps not with the new MMR system and cross play.
Another is what I think BHVR are aiming for in buffing solo survivors which would be the SWF mode or SWF queue which is for me is a completely different game from one that was originally intended or if disputed one I would enjoy playing but would miss the immersed gameplay even if filled with potatoes at low ranks that I mentioned earlier.
The third would be how things are now but with SWFs slowed down and unable to abuse certain perks like OoO which is totally unfair on killers like the trapper when everyone knows where traps are but then also backfire on survivors since it was addressed with an update where they couldn't see killers in stealth.
0 -
Does anyone know if representatives of BHVR have posted on the board recently?
0 -
but they knew eachother, they'v played together so they know how eachother works which in itself is an advantage over solo queuers
1 -
Hot take; most SWF groups are just friends wanting to play a game together and have fun
crazy, I know
0 -
@BigTimeGamer no offence but there seems to be a template of responses for SWF with this being one of them, I'm not sure if you are a bot or if you have seen SWF in the title and just haven't read this thread.
The idea of players playing with other friends or even as in this video just random strangers through dbd forums / communities is perfectly acceptable and isn't in question here.
However what isn't fair is that this isn't any game it is a time management game where being SWF or SWF and using communications helps, some say a little. some say a lot, When I have played SWF using communications, it help a lot.
Due to the unfair advantage of SWFs over solo players BHVR have accepted this is not balanced and are trying to buff solo players (enjoy killers btw), however buffing kindred only buffs SWFs as well. Unless they directly buff solos with in-game comms (players can be muted as in other games) or debuff SWF players (OoO blocked and/or thana like slowdown that ONLY affects SWFs) then we will continue to see average players like in this video have an unfair advantage even though they are having fun but at the expense of other players.
0 -
A while ago I played killer and the team were amazing at moving their characters around which were extremely difficult to hit, they weren't toxic but they had no fear of the killer and once hit the others stepped in whilst the injuried player was healed.
An extremely good group brought together by SWF as the odds of playing these players together were very high. However with this new MMR system perhaps this might change although I doubt it.
SWF you don't use comms but you know the other player has BT for example or that they'll save you when needed.
There really is no defence as to why BHVR introduced this buff to survivor players yet do not address it, hence the silence in forums and streams when it comes to the many SWF posts.
0 -
I think complaining about SWF is kinda small pp but that's just me.
1 -
Why, what are your thoughts?
0 -
I just don't see SWF as a problem. I kill most SWFs I face and most of the time when I lose the survivors aren't a SWF and were just good at the game.
0 -
I dont think swf is the real problem. I think as killer you struggle the most against survivors who are really dedicated to gens. I kind of love the over altruistic mentality of swf. They dont just run out the exist gates, they try to go for every friend on the hook even if they throw the game for that or do unsave unhooks/hook trading.
0 -
They were bad tho. I don't think the information they shared mattered much in this match.
Most of the time it's bad survivor with communication, doesn't matter if they say things like "he's on me" if the guy can't loop.
Seriously what difference does it make ? Are they not gonna do the gen if they dont get this information ?
I had solo games with way better teamwork than this.
Which confirm what i think. SWF isn't really a problem. Not like you are in front of god tier survivor with communication every game. I would take those survivor against me over god tier survivor playing without coms
0 -
Yes they were bad and almost completed the 5th gen to escape.
Do you really think that they would have been able to complete more than 3 if they were all solo?
The difference I keep mentioning and can't be disputed is that a SWF player is exactly the same as a solo... but with knowledge of the other players and with comms, excluding many perks to it the game is time management so saves sooooo much time.
I've had better survivors, I've had worse survivors... what is your point? I'm talking about a gap that is between me or you playing solo or SWF that hasn't been addressed since inception of SWF.
How often do we see posts of killers wanting to quit after an SWF, not just sweat squads but being gen rushed by average players? The fun is taken away from killers as the advantage given to SWF players.
I have no idea if SWF players are a problem as BHVR do not wish to publish this information but many players believe they are.
Please tell me how you are worse as a SWF player vs you as a solo player?
0
