From a purely mechanical standpoint, tunneling is the most effective strategy. Please discuss.
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Well a very straightforward way to solve the mathematical problem would be to make lives be shared among ALL survivors. For example, if hooked, so long as your team hasn't exhausted all its lives, you will have a hook struggle. To prevent hook camping, running out of a timer on a hook uses up a life and you keep struggling. Hooking a different survivor each subsequent time could also have a bonus effect of draining 2 lives instead of just one.
But some rebalance would need to be done as it would make the survivor team much stronger.
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No, not really. But at the same time, yes, absolutely. It is, as with most strategies in DBD bar doing gens, situational. And a lot of what gets called tunelling isn't even tunelling: An all-too-common occurance is farming (as in pulling someone off the hook in the killers face). The clearly correct strat there is to down them both, and yet people insist that the killer should let the both of them off and go and chase someone else you camping wanker. Because, as with people confusing "farming" and "tunelling", people also confuse "being anywhere near the hook for any possible reason" and "camping".
But going after 1 survivor above all others to eliminate them from the game, regardless of anything else, is never the right choice unless they are complete potatoes, in which case it's probably not justified. As frustrating as it is to have someone hardcore tunnel you, the only reason it's not to the detriment of the killers game as a whole is because of potato teammates which refuse to use the insane amount of time you can buy to do gens.
Going after the still-injured survivor can be the right choice, but it depends on whether or not they are in a safe area, and whether or not they have altruistic teammates. It's far more reasonable to expect the healthy survivor to take a hit than it is to expect the killer to not go for the vulnerable person, and instead chase the healthy one that booked it immediately.
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Tunneling DOES reduce the amount of BP you can potentially earn from a survivor if you tunnel them out of the game ASAP.
Try to tunnel your way to 50k+ BP in a single match. You probably won't manage to.
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No the most effective strategy is to slug. You don't lose time hooking and it's harder for survivors to heal a slug than save from a hook.
Tunneling is not very effective after a point because survivors will just rush gens. If the guy you are tunneling has DS then you're just going to waste most of the game killing them. By the time you do the gates are open. You need to pressure ALL survivors, and the only way to do that effectively is to slug.
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Tunneling doesn't ensure you a 4k though if you know a killer has tunnel vision you're just going to work on gens it's like camping sure it gets 1survivor out of the game but by the time you hook that person you tunneled to death 2 or 3 times there's probably 3 gens done
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Against average survivors, sure. It is a huge problem in the game design and the number one reason this game will never grow to its full potential. It pushes people away from the game. Nobody, and I mean nobody wants to get tunneled out of the game in 5 of 7 matches. Every time I load up survivor, I see massive tunneling. It is seriously pathetic.
The problem is this, it is part of why so many killers cry about gen rushing and survivor power role in the game. They get used to tunneling non-stop all the way to the red ranks. Then, they start meeting those skilled players that don't get downed so easy. The ones that know how to focus on the gens, avoid that tunnel and get the job done. They whoop a killer who has not developed the skill of pressuring the map. So here you have a red rank killer who thinks they are top tier who gets owned constantly by better survivors and they blame the game more than they should.
Is that to say the game is not out of balance with skilled SWF groups having too much strength? No, I would absolutely agree that there is a huge balance issue with those groups. As a killer who learned to pressure the map, push gens, and try to keep a team guessing, I can often hold my own on those groups. But I know many killers who are beside themselves with frustration because they think they are great due to being red rank, but they are still trying to tunnel like a mid-rank killer and that crap does not work on good groups.
So, is it the most efficient? Sure, against lower skilled players. Is it the best? No, not by a long shot. It is actually the dumbest way to face those strong groups. But, to each their own. I always say that if you are going to camp and tunnel, STFU about gen rush and survivors being upset. Just like if you are going to play a SWF bully group, STFU about being camped/tunneled.
This game's design is at issue here. It is too easy to tunnel the survivor off the hook, thus creating high levels of frustration for players, especially casual ones. It is too easy to bully the killer, who all are supposed to fear, with a skilled group. Credit BHVR on this though. It is not easy to make a game where the power role is both massively oppressive enough to impact player enjoyment, and so weak that they get bullied. Confusing!!!
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I said that. And you also placed an IF in your sentence, like me. Tunneling itself does not reduce bloodpoints. If you decide to do nothing until you can tunnel again, then you lose bloodpoints. But that is normally more the part of the camping that makes you lose BP.
And tunneling to 50k BP is no problem when you don't waste time staring at the hook. As I said, as long as the tunnel target is on hook, you are free to do stuff. And chasing the target or someone else gives you the same BP. Hooking and hitting as well. I guess you just have a different definition of tunneling.
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In the early game that's true, but one Survivor must always disengage to rescue, absent a lucky self-rescue, and unless you're geared towards doing so, it's almost never a good ideas to try and escape the hook yourself. If the rescuer isn't running BT, then it's better to slug and pursue the rescuer for at least one hit. The slug usually forces at least one other Survivor off gen to help heal, so it's a nice little snowball effect in the short term.
It absolutely makes sense to tunnel, particularly in the case of a week looper or a strong one that's given you trouble. Taking either out is bound to make things a lot easier on the Killer as a whole. That's nuts simple hunting mentality. Pick off the weak and the defenders as soon as possible. It's the soundest strategy towards a win.
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Tunneling does not always earn you a 4k but neither does anything else.
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I tunnel every game , I only run one perk cause it's more challenging , but I win (3k/4k) almost all my matches doing just this , I pick one at random , not normally the first I find , and just murder them till they die , because a 3vs1 with 3/4 gens left is such an easy game/win
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1v3 isnt fair killers can easily beat a 1v3. Ok think like this. Killer tunnels REALLY good surv and thus gets one person and loses the game or maybe 2, not good strategy when it cost the game. Or you tunnel a bad surv to death or you're a good killer with 3 or 4 gens left. The ONLY way for any surv to win is to hide or wait for hatch, because unless the survs are ALL REALLY good you instant win, 1v3 with 3 gens left is more fair but depending on perks and killer and map the killer will win if no one can loop for a gen and. Or the rest are stacking. The only time this would be fair is if thw survs have 2 gens left or 2 and a half so the third is almost done. BUT this is all in certain situations. So bottom line no tunneling isnt necessary or the best strategy unless the survs are actually decent and gen rushing, if you can win fairy without being scummy that's the best strategy because everyones entitled to fun, either way I doubt I would change your mind and I doubt people will actually try to understand my pov. So just to reiterate tunneling is not the beat strategy unless in certain situations
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Not counting any perks and whatnot, it certainly is the most efficient way. Just like choosing to work on a generator that already has progress on it as opposed to starting one fresh is better.
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Yall survivors ######### wild we killers have it hard not being able to run certain perks meanwhile you get angry that we complain about dead hard or ds,
I mean at that point you have to be dicks to laugh at their toxicity even when I give hatch they are toxic they never have enough lemme get the message straight
"Survivor tries to survive, but killer is killer so killer kills no matter what read their backstory and if you see hillbillies in real life try to loop them scums"
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No, tunneling actually is just choosing you in any situation. If your Feng just got off the hook, and i see you getting healed by a David twenty seconds later over by a safe loop, im gonna pick you, because you're already closer to death. I can still patrol, use my perks and track and apply pressure effectively, even when I tunnel, i just need to not let chases drag too long and choose the easier target to go for in every "choice" between two chases.
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You would be the only person I've ever heard of successfully pulling off a 50K+ BP tunnel run.
I still doubt this, seeing how survivors typically don't spend too much time on the hook. Especially since less survivors = less people to earn BP from.
Still, I suppose just about anything IS possible with enough effort/ build and the right circumstances.
If you actually manage to pull that off, then more power to you I suppose. Either way I have never found tunneling to be a very entertaining or efficient method of acquiring BP.
Any time I have tried tunneling, I have usually managed to get about 20-30K and didn't really get any enjoyment out of it.
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This is why Decisive strike exists to not encourage tunneling as it is very easy to proxy camp hooks and focus one person down who has no loop to go to. Its basically the default strategy of killer. The other strategy being sluggng which has unbreakable, for obvious reasons, these perks can only be used once due to how powerful they are. I wish borrow time could counter facecamping in the EGC for survivor, It feels really bad to leave teammates on the hook knowing that there isn't no way to save them against certain killers that either bypass borrow time perk through TR modification effects or Instant down and normal killers, you need your teammate to corporate and bodyblock hits in straight line for exit gate and that is often really hard in solo queue. The meta perks that survivor use are meta for a reason. Now if only all killers were strong enough in the chase to be able to win chases..... and win in a skillful matter against all levels of skill. Sounds like delusional Utopia.
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⬆️ This right here! 100% true!
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Agreed, eliminating even one survivors early as possible creates a huge advantage for the killer that can't be ignored. A 3v1 is much better than a 4v1, taking away the survivors advantage in numbers is just the simple tactic of divide and conquer. Using a single powerful force to take out a larger force by killing it piece by piece.
In the game, it feels scummy. But the tactics and strategy don't lie.
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and this is the exact reason why i dont play this game anymore because it is no fun
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Good on you! If you don't like this game cause it's competitive, that's fine. Just don't shame those who try to win.
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I play really fair most of the times as killer but god it annoys me how often it happened that EVERYONE was on deathhook, literally 2 hooked everyone and then they all escaped and teabagged at the exit gate and told me how trash I was. If I took those 8 hooks I had in this match and killed one with 3 hooks and another one with 3 hooks I would still have time to kill the other two ones easily and win.
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I think I should clarify. I mean prioritize the guy who is on death hook or just got unhooked if they are in a group.
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Well, I get that it helps you win but A) I don't see how it's fun for you, just the winning part of it's incredibly boring just waiting for someone to get hooked then repeatedly tunneling
B) Treat others how you want to be treated (to an extent), that doesn't mean let them win all the time but I don't like to play as a toxic ######### because I hate it when people play like it against me...
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You obviously haven't played survivor if you think thats a good perk. It's utterly #########. Also you need to learn how to play against DS, I think it needs changes but it denies lack of skill on the killers behalf for the most point. If you are observant you can literally make it so you never suffer from DS. A very required perk against most killers who play scummy and I'm sure if it didn't exist so many more killers would
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If it's used by everyone, it's used for a reason.
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I remember before they needed ruin, there were alot more games where you could just have more fun, it relieved so much pressure that games were allowed to breath.. I've never seen more gen rushing games at all ranks than since after that nerf... Say what you will about reworking maps, pallets, etc... The game was just not ready for the change, and they did it anyway...
Killer is too stressful of you're playing to win, the difference between a "good" killer and "bad" is usually one to two simple mistakes that cost the whole match, which you then have to stick around, see to the end, and properly receive your teabag.
Imo, while balance could have been improved and should have eventually by removing ruin, the game has been overall made less fun in it's absence (and although new ruin isn't terrible, it doesn't slow the average game like old ruin, it actually encourages sticking on gens to completion. Basically it teaches good habits to survivors while only helping the killer when he's not engaged in a chase.
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That's a hugely bad assumption based on a bad faith argument. A killer doesn't need to camp to tunnel well, and a smart killer won't place the survivor away from gens he wants to protect.
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It really depends. If you stay predictable and tunnel one player hard all match everyone knows exactly what you're doing. They are on gens and if just one player has d strike or borrowed time and you end up losing that surv you spent a good junk chasing, camping and tunneling? You're about to lose pretty bad. And at most, get 2 kills. Tunneling and camping that hard only works if survs aren't rushing gens and successfully saving the hooked surv.
A good killer knows when to tunnel and when to pressure gens imo. Even if you're a LF, you're going to secure 1 maybe 2 dead survs by just standing there unless you're just playing against a really incompetent team.
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You could look at wins and losses as to how many you killed or you could look at it as 4 win and loss opportunities in the match sure you hooked everyone repeatedly all match and in the end you sacrificed 1 or 2 and if that is the case I see that as 1 or 2 wins against other players and some juicy bp to boot. You don't have to have a set number of kills to win but that's just my opinion.
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Like others said some r competitive and others play 4 fun, people who r competitive don't buy the game to gamble their wins to make it fun 4 everyone they came to win, sucks being tunneled but u cant b mad, (not actually referring to u when I say u can't b mad, just anyone who gets pissed at it)
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Back In the day when a lot of you were still pooping in your diapers, I was a laborer on a road crew. My nickname was the mole. Why? Because I was the poor bastard who had to dig holes for generators and dig trenches for various means. In other words, I tunneled. A lot. If I need a tunnel, I’m tunneling. I see survivors tea bagging and flashlight banging like they’re a stroke victim on a live wire. So yes, if it benefits me or makes me smile I will tunnel. If I could make the killer tap dance on a douchebag’s body I would be lord of the ######### dance.
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Completely depends. The build the map the killer the survivors. Im not tunneling with thanat on a legion makes literally no sense.
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Agreed. All these noob players 4k with moris get a dpip n less points n see it as a win. Literally how. Lol it even says entity displeased dont see that as a win.
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Just playing devils advocate here. Uno is a party game and they have competitive uno tournament's same with monopoly... 😂
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Uno isn't based entirely on AI based RNG. So, that's not really a comparison.
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It's smart but douchy, you're basically going into the game to ruin one survivor's day in particular and making the game an unfun experience. I play both Killer and survivor and never tunnel because you can win/have fun without tunneling. Watch TrueTalent for tips if you're having trouble winning as killer without tunneling.
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Yeah it's used for the reason that so many people tunnel and even facecamp. The amount of times it's saved me from a killer playing like a ######### and the amount of times it's saved me from pure luck and caught the killer at a bad time like 50+ seconds after is 1000:1
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Its not. By the time you chase that one survivor that will probably use up all loops to not die, you would loose all gens. Its the same as camping. There isnt any argument to believe it would be effective.
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If they just got unhooked and are in a group 99% chance they use BT so, no, you want to go for the person who unhooks. Prioritizing a death hook, when it's later in the game, is fine if the opportunity is there. I just don't agree with kill rushing.
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That's why DS, Unbreakable, BT, Soul guard is in the game. For killers like you.
For killers like you those perks are super strong.
"We're all trying to win in the end."
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I play this game competitively. I'm fine with those perks. When I get hit by ds I don't sigh and make a post about it, I'm happy I don't have to worry about it.
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It's a gamble. It usually works even if they have bt.
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I've done that and I was called tryhard -_-
Some people...
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It was a joke 🤦🏾
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Exactly.
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Why do people use try hard as an insult?
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I urge you to play survivor up to Red rank for a consistent amount of time, I assure you, your opinion on camping will change rapidly
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there’s no skill in camping/tunneling someone off of a hook either but that’s a different discussion.
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This. If you find them normally and decide to tunnel them down to get them out of the match, then fair play. However, if you make a point to tunnel them off-hook, you're most likely setting yourself up for a loss
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Tunneling is a good way to get a early kill, but in my opinion it’s not the best tactic for a killer because you can only pressure 2 survivors, the one who get hooked and the one who goes for the unhooks... but the other two player can still rush gens so if you are successful with tunneling this one survivor (maybe he’s good in chase and gets bt or ds) you invest a lot of time and you lose 3-4 gens for this kill... I think it’s more effective to down the unhooked survivor, slug him and go for the rescuer, so one of the „genrusher“ have to go for the healing and you get more time to defend the gens in the mid-/endgame.
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