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Ds and unbreakable
Ok first im a survivor main, I do play a good amount of killer and ive played at high ranks and seen just about every b.s. strat each side can do. So this is my opinion on DS. First it DOES need a rework. But not a nerf or a buff, I think it should be more situational and anti tunnel. First it deactivates if someone else is hooked when the perk is active. Second the timer is permanent unless you get fully healed or work on gens. Because if you want to progress the game you have to realize by negating pressure the killer has you should lose your invinciblity. I think this would fix alot of its misuse, because it should drive you to heal and still give the killer pressure not make you invincible. And as for unbreakable well with these changes it would still balance this and unbreakable is fine as is. So I hope you guys see my reasoning and also im only doing this as like a rough draft so its not a full idea and it can be built upon like it deactivates permanently if the exits are powered or gens get finis hed way too fast because then a killer has to comeback somehow
Comments
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Yeah i got that idea too some time ago. What bothers me the most about second chance perks is, that you can just stack them AS much as you want.
But that DS change would allow counterplay without borderline situations where you just get bad worded.
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Define "misuse".
One could also point out that there are killer perks that are brought as a combo. As an example Spirit Fury + Enduring. Are they being misused too?
I guess it doesn't matter how many times it is said by anyone or even the devs. DS is NOT an anti-tunnel perk. Add penalties to the amount of Tunneling and Camping that is done in the game, and then I will take a DS rework serious. Thanks
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Rexactly and there is counterplay now its just that killers are too scared to eat a ds or slug because no matter what the survivor gets up. But think like this eat that ds and they can be tunneled when needed or slug and they waste unbreakable so you can slug later or they save it and 1 person goes to save them and you intercept then another had to go just because they don't want to waste it and if you leave them alone they will heal which adds lots of pressure and if you choose your chases wisely and can act fast enough that pressure will build and that's why gen rushing is possible because the killers take too long for that pressure or don't build it right. If I see an unhook ill slug the unhook and if they have bt he has to mend and then heal which adds pressure
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I mean using DS as an offensive perk to bully the killer or to force them to eat it. DS isnt meant to make you invincible and enduring and spirit fury is annoying but still its not even anything to worry about just quit doing stuns.
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I doesn't matter how nice people turn it, it's still a bunch of second chances that are able to destroy the killers pressure.
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Yeah, the reason why people complain about DS is not because it's an anti tunnel perk, but I get hit by DS a lot even when I don't tunnel. It's an extremely cheap perk and you suggested the best rework possible for it to make it more of an anti tunnel perk.
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Whataboutism.
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See and that's what it shouldn't do but even then if you play your cards right you can add pressure later. Plus if you eat ds in the beginning it saves you trouble later so time management is a big factor in how the game will end if you decide to play around these perks
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Exactly it shouldnt be able to ruin the killers pressure unless they cause it. Like if you hook someone and then down someone to get ds it makes no sense because you lost pressure but when you try and rebook someone off the bat you are doing something unnecessary and unfair so there should be balance which is why making it anti tunnel is the best they could do. Doubt they will tho
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k.
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Exactly ;). Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7007JzDroCM&t=64s
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Nah not really.
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K.
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It doesn't force you to eat it because there is counterbility to it. You slug. Which last time I checked was already an abusive built-in mechanic killers use. Or no?
So Spirit Fury + Enduring Combo is annoying but you forgive it becauseeee? Yeah. Sorry but I am not buying that. You are meant to be able to combine perks. Unbreakable counters Slugging which again, isn't a perk. It's a mechanic you have available all the time. You can only pick yourself up once.
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You missed the point of the thread. The title is Ds AND unbreakable, meaning slugging is useless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7007JzDroCM&t=64s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_vLlMdu1Sc
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The counter to DS is slugging but the counter to slugging is UB. So this build counters the killer's counter. Which is not fair.
Spirit Fury and Enduring are strong together sure. But it doesn't give the Killer the equivalent of god mode for 60 seconds.
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Right.... and my counter point to that was that perks are meant to be able to be combined. Much like there are strong survivor perk combos, there are strong killer combos.
If the only reason you can provide for why something shouldn't work the way it does is "It's annoying and it bullies the killer" , then to that I say... you have slugging accessibility 24/7.... many killers have strats around that with perk combos (Infectious + Deerstalker) that are just as annoying and no one is complaining about those.
The video is not necessary considering that person thinks he is above the devs. So I respectfully decline.
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We aren't discussing deerstalker and infectious are we? DS and unbreakable is extremely stupid. It gives you a full minute of immortality regardless if you tunnel or not. Let's say I'm playing hag. Place a trap at the hook, guy gets unhooked, teleport back and hit the unhooker with make your choice and hook him. The unhooked guy is self caring in the distance and I see him with nurses calling, I hit and down him. Now I have 2 options 1: Pick the guy up and lose all of my pressure on this guy when I didn't even tunnel. 2: Leave him on the ground only for him to pick himself up and lose all of my pressure. That is absolutely stupid, regardless of how many times you can use it. There aren't any killer combos as strong and uncounterable as that.
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I just said previously the devs themselves have said DS is not an anti tunnel perk. I can link you to where they said this too. That in itself settles that part of the argument.
How do you lose all your pressure? You have a guy on a hook and a guy (probably about to UB) The other two need to make choices and fast. So that's 2 not on gens (automatically) and possible 1 or 2 trying to come to aid the other two.
Again, the whole argument you are trying to make revolves around the very thing that DS isn't strictly about: Tunneling. It's not an anti-tunnel perk, it has a variance againt tunneling because of the new condition they applied in this new DS. However, it was NEVER said it was only meant to be for that. Just added a condition to what IMO was unbalanced previously, because you could use it on first down.
It is really appalling to me how so many red ranks I face everyday don't even see the light of day of this perk. Yet I come on the forums and the same handful of people continue to arbitrate by posting a video of someone else's "opinion". When it was made very clear how the perk operates.
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Against a coordinated SWF it doesn't matter, but you can partially play around it.
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DS should not deactivate when someone else is hooked.
I see killers proxy camping all the time. Say someone runs in and yanks you off the hook, killer hits them down as they’re unhooking you, then turns around and hits you before you can get away. Well the killer has the option to disable your DS right then and there by hooking in the right order. How is that fair?
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What harm would it do to have DS deactivate when a survivor works on a gen? Clearly, that survivor does not have the killer on them anymore, they're not being tunneled. The only thing this change could possibly do is make it so that survivors can't abuse their immunity by doing gens in the killer's face.
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Amen.
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I cant think of many situations where that would be a problem however it wouldn’t fix anything.
I can guarantee you they could patch that in tomorrow and within the hour killers would still come in and say it’s not enough, especially for endgame where there is no gens left. What next? It has to deactivate when touching an exit gate? Or it has to deactivate if the survivor is in the exit gate area?
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I dislike the idea of DS lasting forever, but I wouldn't have an issue with it having a long timer if it had those caveats. I'm also not the biggest fan of the "fully healed" bit. Perhaps change that to "if they begin healing" instead. I mean if not, that seems like it could be gamed pretty hard. I mean am I supposed to just let a survivor fully heal in front of me? That seems wrong lol.
But overall, those are my only real criticisms. Honestly your fix is a bit more limiting that even my own, which was simply that it turned off if they started healing/working on gens/totems/etc. The "hooking another player" thing is something I wish I had thought of myself. It's a good addition.
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You can't win. It's like talking to a wall with these people.
They'll throw any, and every scenario they can think of and try to change and mold the perk to benefit their poor unsportsmanlike habits.
Next they'll say it'll deactivate once you use an Exhaustion Perk.
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Ok u said it has permanent use and deactivates when someone else is hooked,healed or doing gen. What if u have 2 people on hook one person who hops off and will infinitely have ds and will go for save on other person cuz people will definitely abuse that mechanic.
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You're right, I'm the unsportsmanlike one. I'm a stubborn entitled killer main for thinking that DS shouldn't be a free pass to ######### on the killer. Next time Assy McGee with his pink Ace outfit is doing a gen in my face, I'll remember "This guy is a good fellow that is using the perk as intended and not being toxic. I'm toxic and insecure for thinking he's trying to insult me by looking directly at me and doing the objective 6 feet from my face"
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Those "Ideas" were already discussed a hundred times before. Stop creating threads that already exist hundred times.
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Drop the pallet early OMG COUNTERED!!!!!!!!!!
DS????? erm slug? oh they have unbreakable ... erm ... er... stand there and throw the game?
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These two together can be B.S yeah, but then again, they're just one use only and the DS can be missed, if you take down the player with those early they're gonna be with only two perks left.
And pretty much Pyramid head takes out any chance for DS with the cage or the unbreakable play so, you've got a solid counter if you own him.
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Yeah, the devs said it isn't an anti tunnel perk, but that's the problem. The main defense against DS now is that it fixes tunneling and only bad killers get hit by it. It really is designed to be like an anti tunnel perk, but right now it's only a little better than old DS, meaning it's still a get out of jail free card, which shouldn't be in the game.
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DS counter? dont tunnel and slug, go and patrol the gens and dont forget to git gud
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People don't complain about DS because it is an anti tunnel perk. let me give you a scenario. Just hooked someone as wraith, cloak, see scratch marks going to a hook, go back, hit the unhooker with make your choice and instant down them. I hook the unhooker, I cloak, see the unhooker on nurses calling hit them, pick them up and get hit with DS. I have 2 options now. Pick them up or slug. If I pick them up I get striked, if I slug, they pick themselves up.
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How do you exactly know if they have unbreakable? Oh yeah, you can't. (Unless you're hacking)
If the unhooked DS user would hook rush, you could easily slug 2 survivors, even if they pick themselves up they're not a gen!! and while they're picking themselves up, you could be pressuring the gens or chasing someone else, and you're applying pressure to 3 survivors.
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I don't think you understand why people hate DS so much. You defend it by saying "don't tunnel them off the hook", when nobody complains about it being an anti tunnel perk. It is simply 60 seconds of immortality now. If you think DS is an anti tunnel perk, then it shouldn't activate if you don't tunnel right? This isn't a rarity either. It happens like every second game where I get hit by DS when I didn't even tunnel.
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Sorry about mentioning you @ScottJund but people have been discussing this combo a lot recently after your video, and can you explain to them why this combo and DS as a perk used even if your not tunneling is so broken? Cheers.
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You contradict yourself.
You say things like “nobody is complaining about the perk countering tunneling” when thats exactly why some killers on these forums complain about it. They think tunneling only counts as tunneling when it is right off the hook.
You like scenarios right? Let me give you one. As a killer I can hook, and proxy camp and while the survivor is being unhooked I can check on other gens...not go for anyone else and come back to hook, only to try to track down and find that same survivor (who just got unhooked moments ago) who is not only already working on a gen AWAY from the hook... and whose DS (based on many people’s idea) has now become deactivated, simply because they touched a gen.
You want limitations because it doesn’t benefit you, when you pretend like you don’t have a target on that player’s forehead. Then want to excuse your reasoning by claiming “I’m not tunneling” because you think that’s the only possible way the perk manages to be used when it is in fact countering that initial motivation to tunnel.
Because in reality (that same exact moment) you tracked down the same survivor who you hooked is the same moment the devs described (and I quote) “if the killer finds the recently unhooked survivor again it will come down to strategy at that point”. Why? Because the survivor no longer has 60 seconds. So now they have to strategize to get you off their behind for a second.
Just because you and whoever else you wanna bring into a conversation dont like the combo means it’s “wrong”. Especially when you cling on what YOU personally perceive DS to be, which isn’t.
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That's not what a contradiction is. Here's what a contradiction looks like. "Attacking a opinion is silly" then saying "sorry your opinion has been proven wrong". Tunneling IS hitting the survivor right off the hook, and going for them and nothing else, hence the term tunnel vision. If I am going for the unhooker, I no longer have tunnel vision. You can look at DS however you want, it is a fine anti tunnel perk, but anti momentum (what the devs said) is extremely overpowered when there are maps like red forest and Ormond in the game. 60 seconds of immortality is 25% of the game if the survivors play well, and don't forget all 4 survivors can have this combo, meaning 1 minute of immortality for all 4 survivors.
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Oh I am not looking at DS however I want, I am looking at it precisely as how the devs intended the perk to work.
Bringing up scenario after scenario where the perk shines, doesn't change that fact.
So you think a killer turning their back for a moment only to seconds later come back to track down that same survivor isn't tunneling? Ok.
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Slugoing isn't abusive its a mechanic that can be abused and DS wasn't meant to work the way it does because if a killer gets 30 second chases and then find the guy he unhook that's a ds even tho its bot tunneling. Second yeah there are counters to it but alot of people inly get there pressure at end game so it gets ruined when if they get it early they are forced to use their perks
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I said unhooking while off hook if you get farmed that's still not fair plus tunneling is going for the person unhooked so yeah it would only work if the killer hooks someone as youre unhooked
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No it deactivates when all gens are done or at certain amount are done too fast. Because A once that endgame happens there are no rules. B killers can't always control whether they get gen rushed and its the most unfair thing
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Yeah as I've said its more of a rough draft and if they start healing I mean it could work but you have to make thos perk situational because if someone starts healing them without them wanting it they can get screwed but I do agree
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No thats dumb if anyone says that so are they
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Well I said it needs to be situational so that could be addresses in it as well this is only to make it anti tunnel.
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Hey I stated my opinion this isn't a call to change or a discussion I just wanted my opinion out there and nobody had to respond.
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Pressure others if you have to tunnel youre not good unless you were gen rushed so you put yourself in that position
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Mad Grit, Agitation and Iron Grasp and Unrelenting just cause hey. Which honestly Mad Grit and Agitation alone are stupid asf mechanics the devs dont see issue in for some reason 🤣 Pop and BBQ are practically 2 perks on every killer.
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First and foremost those are useless in actual gameplay and its always funny to see
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