Love keys.
Was playing pyramid head and had 3 hooked one of the survivors and i think 2 hooked the other 3 ( i was trying to be fair and maximize my sacrifice points i was going for adept ph) last 3 get stuck in a 3 gen so i think i pretty much got this in the bag since none of the gens are that progressed. Nope just so happened one of the survivors found a purple key in a chest and told his 2 swf friends where it was and 2 of them make it in before i body block the 3rd and shut it hook him and he dies. Sadly i did not get all iridescents so no adept ph love this stupid item. I know people compare moris and keys but i don't think a mori allows me to kill 4 survivor's at the same time while a key can let them all escape (if their alive) .
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A key is definitely weaker than a mori.
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Can a mori let me kill all 4 survivors at once and be found randomly in a killer chest? And can i run a addon on a mori to prevent losing it when opening a black lock or dieing?
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bUt wHaT aBoUt mOrIs /s
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After you hook everyone once with a ebony mori you basically already won. A key can be countered in many ways and it’s definitely harder to find the hatch than killing everyone with a mori.
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Rainbow map? Rng? I've had the hatch spawn infront of me before. Also to counter a mori i can hide in a locker with ds. Or hide in a locker and have a teammate flashlight save preventing the mori. Theres also bt if the killer tunnels off hook.
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I don't see how that matters.
Spitting on someone's face is less offensive than punching them in the face, but that doesn't mean you're free to spit on everyone because, "Hey, I'm not punching them. Could be worse!"
It doesn't matter if one's worse than the other; this is about Keys and the problems with them.
Talk about Moris and how crazy stupid they are in an appropriate thread.
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My condolences on the failed Adept.
They're stupid difficult nowadays, and I don't get why you need a 4k + Quad Iridescent when a 4k with just the Killer's teachables can be challenging enough.
If you keep at it with the Adept I'm sure you'll get it tho. From the sounds of it uou woulda got it that game if it hadn't been for the Key.
Speaking of the Key Escape, you hate to see it, but at least you managed to bodyblock the 3rd dude. They didn't all get outta jail free because of the chest RNG.
It doesn't happen that often though, and Peanits said they'll look at both Keys and Moris.
Personally I almost always bring Franklin's, just out if paranoia. I'd suggest that in the mean time.
It won't help that much if they're smart/lucky, but it can still make a big difference.
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Moris and keys should be in the game simples.
Killer plays well and the 3 survivors have 3 gen'd themselves... don't worry if you didn't even bring a key find one in a chest!
Killer plays badly but mori's someone and snowballs from there...
I'm not sure BHVR want us all to have a fair and balanced game so perhaps BHVR next will give a killer a mori in a chest, just crazy.
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Did you even read anything ? the OP compared keys to moris so this is an appropriate thread for that.
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Oh I didn’t know that I can bring 2 items now. You seem to forget that not everyone is swf. A key can only be used under certain circumstances which have to be met. A Mori is just a free kill without doing anything. It’s so easy to get 4 kills with a mori but how often do you see 4 survivors escaping trough the hatch?
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It definitely can suck to have a key cut things short like that.
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i would like to politely disagree with that one.
besides that though, at least a mori does not punish the survivors for playing well - keys do punish the killer for playing well though.
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I fail to see how that makes any sense. A key can also be used if the killer gets zero kills. A mori basically punishes survivors for existing. But I guess everyone can have their own opinion.
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A key doesn't let all 4 escape all at once unless 5 gens are repaired. Which means the killer dun goofed a long time before that. Also, the fact that you can't find moris during the trial or run add-ons to preserve them is hardly an argument to say they're weaker than keys. You get so many moris in bloodwebs that you could use an ebony/ivory every game if you wanted to. With bbq and prestige 3, you would re-fill on the next bloodweb easily. An ivory has the same effect of an ebony, because once the trial goes 3v1 early match then it's gg. The ebony is simply the overkill version.
Keys and moris are both broken. Keys are a tad weaker. But in the end, broken is broken and arguing what's more broken is basically moot.
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I personally like the idea of just making moris earned like devour hope and ph and maybe making keys personal (or honestly idk what to do with them) because if your on death hook and tormented well thats just a better way to go out really. And dh should have gotten the totem.
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Keys are perfect. survivors must work to earn the hatch its not like the game starts and there you go. a hatch is right there escape whenever you feel like lol
moris happen after one hook, its that simple. for the key survivors must finish some gens, stay alive and find it.
what does a killer need to do for a mori? wait for some gens to be done? no, just hook once. then dead
even with saying that, i still love moris because i love the animations more than struggling on the hook till i die. but moris are a cheap way out unlike keys. and not everyone plays swf. which makes it even harder to find the hatch and finish the gens and save our team
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If the whole squad use key to go through the hatch. You didn't play well as a killer. That means the survivors completed all gen, you didn't tunnel the key holder out of the game.
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As a survivor, almost every game I'm in where a Mori is used, is a 4k. As a killer, keys can end with any number of survivors alive or dead and it usually never amounts to 4 escaping through hatch as they would need all 5 gens done. I see you complaining that you didn't get a 4k? You ruined 2 survivors escape even with a key in the game. 2 of 5 players lost. You did not lose. You successfully made 2 others lose.
If the goal is to make it easier for killers to 4k.. who'd ever want to play survivor. Think of the odds. If 4k were possible 50% of the time, that would mean that 80% of the players lose 50% of the time and that 20% of the players(the killer) wins . 4k may be seen as a win to killers as it is you vs them, but to a survivor a win is just them vs the killer. IMO, if you kill anyone, you have successfully beat that person.. a Win. Killer already gets more BP per match than survivor too, another win. If you're playing for rank, than I'm sorry you don't feel like 2k was a win against 2 people.
I fail to see how you got punished for playing well. For 3 survivors to escape they would have had to have done 4 gens, known where the hatch was, and gotten a key. Are you saying that you were playing well because you killed one survivor by the time 4 gens were done?
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I mean when the devs make these adept achivements they force you to play to the best (aka 3 hooking everyone smacking them enough stalling enough gens and winning chases). In this scenario i forced survivors into a 3 gen and 2 hooked everyone and 3 hooked one person. So now they were 3 gend i was pretty much guaranteed to get the iridescent for stalling gens. I got a gold for sacrifice because of the key and got the 2 other iridescents. So yeah i played perfectly and fairly and got punished for playing fair to get the adept achivement for pyramid head (who has zero gen control anyway). To have a adept right there in your grasp and get it ripped from you because of a RNG item in a chest isnt very fun.
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are you familiar with the hatchspawn mechanic?
if not, here is a little breakdown:
the hatch will spawn into the trial like everyone else does, however it will start underneath the ground, unaccessable to all.
should the amount of generators that have been repaired throughout the trial match the amount of living survivors plus one, it will emerge and can be found / opened with a key (4 survivors alive = no gens left, 3 survivors alive = 1 gen left, 2 survivors alive = 2 gens left).
additionally it will spawn no matter the amount of repaired gens when there is only one survivor left in the trial.
in case you still fail to see it:
if the killer plays well and eliminates survivors, each kill makes it easier for the others to enable the hatch. should there be a key in the trial now, that means their overall goal of repairing 5 generators will decrease with each killed survivor, until it is met and they can now focus on finding the hatch (something the killer will be mostly unaware of, unless they are aware of the key - and even then they cant do anything due to the hatch being not interactable for them while its closed, therefore the killer can not prevent the survivors from finding and opening it) - and dont come at me with "oh but a good killer wont let gens get completed", thats bullcrap. gens are designed to be completed, unless the killer utterly dominates a team to the point where they cant get anything done (having at least two survivors downed / hooked AND being in chase with a third consistently), the gens will get done and the hatch requirement will be met rather sooner than later - 3 gens for 4 players isnt that much after all.
that means, if i as the killer play well, i will just end up spawning hatch, letting the others go, just because someone ended up bringing a key. i would have to hardtunnel the key user and then guard the item on the ground, just so i could avoid that scenario, which would be very suboptimal gameplay (and yes i have lost games just because i was forced to not kill the guy on the ground right now, as i would just end up spawning hatch then and the others having a key. then the guy i couldnt kill ended up doing gens, losing me the game - i was in a lose lose scenario right there)
so a key is quite literally the definition of punishing good gameplay.
a mori on the other hand does not work like that.
the mori requires the killer to catch you twice - it does not "punish survivors for existing", it rather cuts their overall HP by a third, greatly shortening the match.
there is no (additional) punishment for the survivor when there is a mori, its just that the killer has greatly cut down the requirements that needed to be met for them to kill someone.
both are utterly broken and need to be looked at, but only one of them actually punishes the other side for good gameplay - and that remains to be exclusive for keys.
EDIT: grammar
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I can understand that, and I feel your pain, but I'm sure you'll get the adept on subsequent attempts. Nerfing keys because it prevented a 4k, nay, an achievement(which should not just be handed out) in one match is a bit extreme. Have you ever tried to get the 'All 4 survivors escape through the hatch" achievement? All 5 gens + finding hatch + no sacrifices + all team using hatch vs. gate as a solo survivor?
@Mister_xD I still don't think of keys as punishing a killer for good gameplay. The fact that survivors have another means of potentially shortening their escape is on par with a mori which shortens their life span. I've been in many matches where a survivor had a key vs killer having a mori.... almost all result in 4k.
How often do more than 2 escape? What percentage of matches end in 2 escapes when a key is brought? Too many variables with keys.
- Survivor with key dies... no key.
- Survivor with key can't find hatch... no hatch escape.
- Solo survivor with key... team won't be with them if they find the hatch.
- If all survivors are alive, 5 gens must be done. (At which point, the killer was only going to 1k at best)
I've only ever been part of a 2 person key escape twice. I've never been in a 3, and I've never gotten the achievement for a 4. I've escaped many times with no key as the last survivor, but not as often as you'd think.
So what, 2 survivors escape through a hatch? The fact that the killer got 2 kills is reward in and of itself (you got rewarded for all your hooks and kills). you're not being punished because 1 of 4 people might have a key, might not have been killed, and might have found the hatch. The mentality from killers that they must 4k and gain max points every match or the game is punishing them, drives me mad. Many factors have to fall into place to even use the key to shorten an escape. Play survivor and try a key escape. I'd say roll SWF with 1 friend and try to get both of you out. You will lose a lot of keys.
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Why can't people just agree that both keys and moris are BS and need to go? Instead its just a bunch of people yelling "No I have it worse!" Over and over again.
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Keys are also not fun to go against, but Mori has a way more powerful effect. 4x Key vs Ebony Mori? There is no way more then 1 person will escape and even this is unlikly.
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I like both of them. As a survivor, I don't take the game so seriously that I can't enjoy the fact that there is a 'wild card' factor that can either shorten my life or shorten my escape. Subsequently, as a killer, I don't rage when a couple survivors get away. I get more bummed when I don't get a single one, and that has nothing to do with keys.
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