"Not All Killers Are Meant to be Viable at High Ranks"
I've been playing this game for awhile now over a year. An I've seen how this game has been getting abit better balanced for killers but this doesn't mean I should be limited to playing a few select killers at high-rank. It gets boring I have been playing Nurse an Billy for the majority of my time with some occassional Huntress an Shape (both under preform compared to Nurse an Billy) An especially with the Huntress "fix" I won't ever be playing that mess again. Clown an Hag can be played at high ranks some but also underpreform, the other killers have a really hard time and The Spirit? Im unsure about her I have her p3 because I believe she has more potential especially after the mid-chapter update but I need more time to figure out if she is high rank viable.
So lets count, we have 2 solid Killers at high-ranks (Nurse, Billy) And 3 decent Killers that still struggle for high ranks (Myers,Hag,Clown RIP Huntress) Thats 5 killers, 2 who preform alot better. This leaves the majority of killers weak.
As a side note I have been Rank 1 killer for about 10 months straigh between resets so I have invested many hours in each killer
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This echoes my thoughts, where is the fun for the players that enjoy wrecking people with a decent killer at high ranks? We have two actual really strong killers to chose from as you said.1
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The problem with this statement is that Survivors don't like to play against the same Killers over and over again any more than Killers like to play the same characters over and over again.
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I am not Matt. But if I were to guess, the thought behind the quote is that some killer powers lend themselves to efficient murder, while others are more centered around creating a variety interesting interactions. (Disposing of the survivors only being one of these interactions)
This is one of the few games where I can honestly say that the "goal" does not seem to be "to win". (Killer kills, survivor lives). It is to "engage" with the other players and partake in a short, and interesting story. Our own mini-horror flick.
What leads me to this hypothesis? Matt and the team repeatedly tell (and show) us on a regular basis how they are questing for exactly that: interesting interactions. Not "killer gets kills". Or, "survivors live".
Only my thoughts and I look forward to hearing more from the man himself, as well as the team.3 -
If this is the case then and they want us to make our own engagememts, then why should the decent killers (11 of them) have to sweat and try so hard just to make a few "engagements" before all the gens pop in 3 minutes? This isn't as bad of a problem for the likes of Billy who can put mass amounts of pressure on survivors. But for the killers that aren't Nurse or Billy it becames much harder as it remains easy for surviorsskynight said:I am not Matt. But if I were to guess, the thought behind the quote is that some killer powers lend themselves to efficient murder, while others are more centered around creating a variety interesting interactions. (Disposing of the survivors only being one of these interactions)
This is one of the few games where I can honestly say that the "goal" does not seem to be "to win". (Killer kills, survivor lives). It is to "engage" with the other players and partake in a short, and interesting story. Our own mini-horror flick.
What leads me to this hypothesis? Matt and the team repeatedly tell (and show) us on a regular basis how they are questing for exactly that: interesting interactions. Not "killer gets kills". Or, "survivors live".
Only my thoughts and I look forward to hearing more from the man himself, as well as the team.0 -
Wish they would lift up all the trash killers, but as we saw with the wraith, its probably never gonna happen
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Sad but true, it would make the game a lot more fun for killers, while also making it more engaging for surviors. Trapper (Yes he still sucks, relies on red add ons) Pig, LF, Doctor (abit better but still struggles) Huntress, an the King of Garbage Freddy all need some help right now...an it doesn't help that killers still suffer from frame drops 3 months after an update very annoying 😡DeadByFlashlight said:Wish they would lift up all the trash killers, but as we saw with the wraith, its probably never gonna happen
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I think Balancing for Skill video by Extra Credits is probably a good explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3wThe killers are the weapons. They have super limited in how many abilities they can have (realistically only one), so if you make the skill gap too HIGH on all killers or too LOW on all killers, then it severely detracts from the amount of players you'll get. Skilled players will find it boring, and unskilled new players will find it too hard and frustrating.
So instead, they give us a series of killers with different levels of skill balance. New players can get some good carnage with some killers, but need to practice hard to get better at the others.
This could be fixed if they gave killers more load out options that actually change the killer's ability completely, or builds on it a meaningful way, but generally the addons just do minor tweaks to its standard ability.
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This concept that there are only 2 viable killers at rank 1 is a myth.
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Another thing to remember is that most of us on the forums aren't your average players. We're probably all relatively high rank (or could be), and thus understand the limitations and loadouts of the killers so we can play to them.
I would imagine for 80% of the players, they get stomped by Freddy, Cannibal and Wraith just as much as they do Nurse and Billy and find all the killers very challenging to play against. Unless the devs put in new objectives and give individual killers more variety in their load outs, then they will always have to have (and I agree with them) definitively low-tier killers.
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I never said only those two were viable I said those two preform best, there are few others that do okay but struggle compared two those twoDreamnomad said:This concept that there are only 2 viable killers at rank 1 is a myth.
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@Dreamnomad said:
This concept that there are only 2 viable killers at rank 1 is a myth.Yeah nurse is the only viable one if we talk about optimal SWF
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I think we have enough low tier Killers for now, and I would appreciate some new high tier killers thanks. Nurse and Hillbilly are considered the only two high tier killers by the community...the just fixed Huntress making her unviable now and Clown, Myers and Hag can preform but struggle so is it so wrong for me to ask for new high tier killers instead of consistent low tier?MisterCremaster said:Another thing to remember is that most of us on the forums aren't your average players. We're probably all relatively high rank (or could be), and thus understand the limitations and loadouts of the killers so we can play to them.
I would imagine for 80% of the players, they get stomped by Freddy, Cannibal and Wraith just as much as they do Nurse and Billy and find all the killers very challenging to play against. Unless the devs put in new objectives and give individual killers more variety in their load outs, then they will always have to have (and I agree with them) definitively low-tier killers.
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@MisterCremaster said:
Another thing to remember is that most of us on the forums aren't your average players. We're probably all relatively high rank (or could be), and thus understand the limitations and loadouts of the killers so we can play to them.I would imagine for 80% of the players, they get stomped by Freddy, Cannibal and Wraith just as much as they do Nurse and Billy and find all the killers very challenging to play against. Unless the devs put in new objectives and give individual killers more variety in their load outs, then they will always have to have (and I agree with them) definitively low-tier killers.
Having played other Hero-based PvP games like Overwatch and Paladins, where the abilities are also hard-baked in, you will need low-skill characters. You're right about a majority of the player base, too. Just look at the majority ranks in a game like Overwatch. A very small percentage reach high ranks, most hover around the middle ranks.
DBD is a little odd because it seems that here, if one simply grinds out enough play time, one can pip and rank enough to reach the Red Ranks. It's why I'm disappointed, as a new player, that there isn't a casual mode. And KYF doesn't count due to no bloodpoint progression at all. I don't want to climb ranks. I just want to have fun in some digital let's pretend being a horror film killer. That's why I bought the game. I'm very new, but I'm not even worried about getting a 4-kill. Hey, some survivors escape? Cool. But did we all get some decent bloodpoints in the match? Was it engaging and fun?
That's all I want. It's why I've no interest in face camping and all that crap.
It's why I do not want to climb the ranks. But if I play enough and long enough, it seems purposefully thowing matches and de-pipping will be my only option, since Behavior chose to not have a Ranked and Non-Ranked mode.
I'm an older gamer. I'm casual: limited play time, not looking to be a top player. I'm a very happy casual gamer. Can't they at least make it harder to climb ranks? Because just trying to make the match engaging as a Killer, and making sure everyone can get some bloodpoints (yes, go, save your fellow survivor from the hook), is going to eventually raise my rank. I don't want that. I don't want to play a "competitive mode."
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@YamiTheFurry I believe there should be an equal number of high tier, medium, and low. I actually think the difficult ranking of the killer should be the deciding factor, and it does seem like they only have a few marked as Hard and billy isn't one of them.
I think the reason for this is BHV bogus release schedule. Its FAR to lengthy. The worst thing BHV can do do is adjust a killer and instantly make a new meta where survivors feel a killer is suddenly OP, but they should be doing much more small adjustments over time to help strike the balance.
If they doubled the release timeline with bug fixes and balance changes I think we'd find a much happier community. I do not know the costs associated with that though, and I imagine Sony/Steam/MS may make it difficult for this to happen for a game of DbD size.
@Kilmeran Rank shouldn't really be an issue, and IMO it shouldn't even be visible or be much more obtuse. If you play the way you want, you'll pip or depip as your play style determines.
IMO players should lose pips way easier than they gain pips. That might make things balance out more. I have a feeling people get frustrated by the ranking system because the idea of "winning" in this game is so much different than others. Killers want 3+ kills, survivors just want to survive (especially at low levels). So when you have a string of "bad games" where you don't survivor or don't get many kills it suddenly feels you're playing at a rank you shouldn't be, which isn't necessarily the case.
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@YamiTheFurry I also think that people get even more frustrated when licensed killers aren't high tier. People want to play as Freddy. I don't think people necessarily have a creepy nurse killer fantasy.
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@MisterCremaster That makes sense. Given the way I want to play the game, then, I should hover in the low to mid ranks without a problem.
As far as the creepy killer nurse fantasy . . . you might be surprised. Hell, I'd be shocked if there isn't a website out there dedicated to it.
I know Freddy is weak, but I'm going to play him and have fun anyway. Nostalgia, and all that. I bought the game to be a horror film killer or victim, that's all. If a Survivor escapes, I'm fine with that. They survived for the "sequel," so to speak. If I get sacrificed as a Survivor? Well, guess that was my role after all.
I know I am a minority here at the forums, but I wonder if I am in the overall player base.
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In a competitive environment where both sides are trying their hardest to win yeah there is only 2Dreamnomad said:This concept that there are only 2 viable killers at rank 1 is a myth.
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We need more skillful killers. Most of them have have a limit with how good you can be with them. The most skillful killers being nurse, huntress, Spirit, and to a certain degree hillbilly. But then theres hag who became easy to play but hard to master. Every killer should be fun to learn just like those killers. Freddy should be fun and challenging at the same time, right now the most skillful thing I can do as freddy is micromanagement. I try to keep the survivors in my world and make sure they dont advance. That's why class photo can be pretty strong sometimes especially when theres only 2 gens left. Spirit could use just a few tiny buffs as her learning curve is not rewarded as much as nurse and just a few tiny buffs could really make people that are already good with her extremely deadly0
