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I wish people on this forum understood how necessary DS is
It does not need a nerf. You have no idea how many killers will tunnel you off hook. And sure, there are a small selection of survivors who will jump into lockers or sit on gens to get grabbed when you aren't tunneling. But these survivors are far fewer than the vast amount of killers who will tunnel the hell out of you off hook. It's a very frustrating experience when you come across these kinds of killers and I'd say at least 1 in every 4 games will have this type of killer (if not more frequent). The locker counterplay is so valid, too.
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It’s a must have
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That kind of talk isn’t popular around here with the vocal crowd
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Don't waste a wish on these forums.
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People don't say its unneeded its just FAR too easily abused outside of its intended purpose.
Infact most people flat out say in their DS nerfs that they DON'T want to remove its anti tunnel/anti camp function as they agree its necessary.
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Agreed.
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The problem with DS is that it makes EGC pointless. Once the exit gates are open you might as well just go walk to a corner of the map and stare at a wall, regardless if you have any survivors hooked.
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I wish I didn't need to run it but I always feel like I do. Anytime someone gets tunnelled and they don't have DS a little part of me dies inside.
Even as killer I can't lie if I see that there is no DS in the game my mindset changes. I won't actively tunnel just one survivor but I'm definitely not going to respect the DS I know survivors won't have.
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Nobody wants anti tunnel ds gone.
we want ha ha you can't do anything to me! i'm going to rescue in your face, or do this gen and not bother moving! ds gone.
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You have no idea how many times I've been hooked next to the gates and spent more than 60 seconds crawling my way out as the killer waits for me at the gates, hooks me again and kills me.
Don't say pointless, killers are smarter than you think.
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Or did you just do a big dumb and get caught far away from the gate?
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I know. Because the vast majority here are killers, never played survivor mains. DS doesn't feel anywhere near as bad to play against as does a tunneling killer. And a tunneling killer is more common than DS actually cucking you as a killer.
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But then you look at all the QQ'ing and they want it to be. And you can still get tunnelled by getting slugged, so sometimes jumping in a locker is really the best thing you can do when a killer is just a dbag.
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Not really. It makes it pointless for the killers who want to hook camp/tunnel for the 1k.
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Not really it just makes you the Dirt bag in that situation as there is no counterplay to what your doing a survivors do it as a get out of jail free card more often then not whether or not they are being tunneled/camped.
I have A LOT of personal experience with the locker abuse with DS watching teammates do it and being effected by it as killer.
Post edited by Warcrafter4 on1 -
The only time this is frustrating is when you see only them and it's been 30-45 seconds from unhook. But otherwise...you're being cucked by not being allowed to tunnel. Killer is still the dbag in this situation.
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You couldn't have been that close to the exit gates if you can't crawl to them within a minute.
Smart survivors with DS ready to activate during EGC will generally stay close to the exit gates even if they're in a chase. If you get downed with DS ready near an exit gate it's gg the killer can't pick you up and has to watch you crawl through the gates
I mean heck if they down you near an open exit gate and there's no hooks close enough to the gate it's pointless too. They know you'll wiggle free before they get to the hook and they also know if they carry you as far away from the gate as possible without letting you wiggle free and drop you then you can still crawl back to the gate before you bleed out or before the EGC timer is up
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Any Killer main with a couple braincells knows how necessary DS is.
What a lot won't say is that they don't want to admit that they just want to tunnel survivors down. I know this is objectively a fact, because 99% of the time the killer brings a green/ebony mori, they eschew whatever chase they were in to immediately pivot to the recently unhooked survivor to tunnel them and mori them. I'd wager that in games without the threat of DS (no obsession), those same players would dp similar things even without a mori.
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this and when they heal under the hook body block for the healthy survivor that healed them so you have to chase them and when their injured and your about to get a hit they jump into a locker mid chase to force you to pick them up so they can stun you. they at least try to do this every other game
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It isn't necessary. I play both sides. It simply isn't anti tunnel. Every second match, I get striked when not tunneling. It needs a huge nerf, it rewards bad survivors. It would be fine if it was just anti tunnel. Most GOOD survivors don't rely on it, because they know it's 60 seconds of immortality.
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So you're saying there shouldn't even be an EGC, just game over the second the gates are opened?
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Exactly. And this type of gameplay is far more common than the "fair", not douchey kind. At least 1 out of every 4 games will have someone who actively tunnels someone out of the game, so that they can out them by 3 gens and win the game. But it would not be uncommon to have 3 of those 4 games with tunnel killers on a ######### day of the week (eg. friday nights), where all the dbags come out to play.
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DS isnt designed as An anti tunnel perk according to the devs. And even if you look at all the numbers and how ds works it is clear it isnt.
Yes it might function as An anti tunneling perk for you but there are so many things abusable with the perk.
First of all if you have all the time to do a gen then you cant be tunneled. So ds should be deactivated when touching a gen and make the timer stop when Being slugged. This is how you make DS a true anti tunneling perk
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You're literally arguing that them jumping into a lot for you to get DS'ed is unhealthy, when the bigger problem is you WANT TO TUNNEL THEM. Just stop tunneling. Plain and simple. It's a mechanic that works, but it is not fun to play against and DS discourages it (which is extremely healthy for this game). Chances are, if they didn't jump into a locker, you'd just leave them slugged. But that's still tunneling....
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This is a quote from the DS rework patch notes:
Question: What led to the decision to put the timer on Decisive Strike?
Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed
DS IS DESIGNED AS AN ANTI TUNNEL PERK!
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This would be a nice change. But then every killer main could cry to high heaven if you were forced to always eat a DS.Because, let's be real, at least 75% of killers want to tunnel slug the injured survivor.
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Let's be honest. How many GOOD killers tunnel at rank 1?
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i dont want to tunnel them they run behind the person that healed them effectively body blocking for another healthy usually unhooked survivor what do i do in this situation?
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Why you chasing a survivor making it obvious they have some form of protection, either with BT or DS? Why don't you go for the lunge, get the hit on the recently unhooked survivor, and then chase the unhooker? That's how you apply pressure, because now the injured survivor has to heal at some point if they don't want to be one hit.
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Yup but the DS and unbreakable combo Will be gone because survivors wont have 60 seconds immunity to do Gens. This is mine biggest reason I hate the perk it is Just DS+ unbreakable Being An unhealthy combo.
If this combo is fixed then i am fine.
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And all a survivor main sees when ds is mentioned is REMOVE DS! and they never actually read or take in what is being said.
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Let's say I hook a survivor and someone rescues them a while later. Then I down and hook the unhooker and I go to the nearest gen. The goddamn unhooked person is in front of my face doing a gen, what the hell do I need to do ? Leave them ?
Noone is complaining about its use as an anti-tunneling perk. We are complaining about its offensive a.k.a invincibility bubble use.
Just make the timer 30 secs and make it so that when you are in a chase, it doesn't go out and when you interact with something, it deactivates.
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This! ^^^^^^
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I read what is said and listen to people complain. But honestly, 1/2 the time it's just the killer saying in a very persuasive manner that they want to tunnel people and not be punished.
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it doesnt start as chasing the recently unhooked survivor they body block intentionally even when both the survivor i was chasing and they were healthy. they purposfully run behind their teammate to nullify the speed boost they get when i try to lunge around them and hit the noninvinciple survivor.the optimal play that i currently use is to wait out bt and slug so they cant do gens while invinciple. ds should deactivate based on something besides time maybe hooking another survivor maybe hitting 3 hits idk it abused way too much now
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Again, good killers aren't dumb and will not hook anywhere near the gates.
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Don't link stuff to chase. Everytime a perk is linked to chase it's abused by killer looking at the ground or some other bullshit to avoid being in chase. Old legion style.
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Then killers abuse mechanics look at the ground to avoid being in chase. Now it's 30 seconds and people still tunnel you.
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You're ignoring the fact that people are fine with it being an anti tunnel perk. It is simply 60 seconds of immortality right now.
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If it's used too much, it needs a nerf. i.e. Hex: Ruin.
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Do you not wiggle?
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Just say you want easy tunnel guys. Your rework would totally destroy the perk.
Ds is fine as it is.
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This post us pointless as they haven't read why DS needs a nerf.
Simply DS should only be an anti-tunnel perk.
Currently it also allows gens to be rushed with a 60 second god mode x2 in a 300 second gen rush map.
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I'm more crtiical of DS than probably of anyone, but I DO understand why it's necessary.
That being said, it can exist as an anti tunnel device and still not be broken, like it is now.
A lot of killers things have conditions, and DS should also have conditions on it. If you get unhooked, and are:
- Fully healed.
- Get on a gen (or do anything to progress the game forward, like destroying a totem, opening the gate etc)
- Someone else gets hooked.
DS should deactivate. It's impossible that you are being tunneled if any of those things are happening.
As a trade off for that, you could say if you get slugged, the timer freezes, so you can't simply be slugged to wait it out. The timer would also be 90 seconds - so if the killer DID chase you, he'd be wasting a lot of time.
On the flip side - DS should not work during the end game collapse or if you're the only survivor left. If a door is opened, and you get unhooked, and have DS, there's no way to counter that, and it's just you being invincible, with is a problem.
And that's the main issue people have with DS. Not that it exists. If it existed as anti tunnel, and worked only as such, it wouldn't get a lot of hate. Right now it's just 60 seconds of invulnerability, and that's a busted mechanic in a game like this.
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DS is fine.
Unbreakable + DS: It’s obvious you really want that survivor for some reason so why not just proxy camp them while they are slugged? Or just eat the stun.
Locker DS: Again, you obviously really want that survivor for some reason. Just wait outside the locker or eat the stun, not that hard.
Baiting grabs with DS: You have the option to lunge instead of grab. Again eating the stun is probably the wisest thing to do.
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Opinion of a 50/50 player:
I think it only needs one change: being deactivated as soon as the survivor is working on a gen.
The killer can tunnel you even if you're fully healed (We'll make it, styptic,...), they can tunnel you and you jumpin a locker as result and they can even tunnel you, down you and then hook somebody else before picking you up. I think DS should always work in these situations like it does now.
But if you're hopping on a gen, obviously you're not getting tunneled.
Imo DS should get deactivated as soon as you're hopping on a gen, and that's probably the only change that's needed. Because it is just bs that you can work on a gen in the killers face and basically be immune to grabs. That's just stupid.
The problem with DS is, it would be fine as it is now, if not so many survivors would abuse it. The abusing of beeing "invincible" is the only problem.
And no, it is not a "must" perk. I played a long time with it and stopped using it, because 9/10 games it was a waseted perk slot, because I didn't abuse the ######### out of it like others do. I'm doing perfecly fine without DS, BT, Unbreakable or Adrenaline. Anyone who's trying to tell me that any of these is a must perk should probably think about their playstyle, it might be a little aggressive...
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no its not its abused and flaunted as a full 1 or 2 minutes of invincibility because it is
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I had an idea on how to properly nerf it. It now has no timer, but will deactivate if you go on a gen, hop in a locker, open an exit gate, or someone else is hooked. But, if you are slugged it will not deactivate from someone else getting hooked that way the killer can’t just down you and go after whoever rescued you and hooked you both
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Eat the ds.
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That's the problem most people got with DS. Nothin else.
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In my recent games quite a few. The rank one killers are the most sweatiest in my recent experience. Mostly they do not camp, but many just broke of chases to down the unhooked again. They usually don't pick you up and wait for the DS timer to end. I especially hate the M&A Deathslinger players. Was unhooked, did not hear a TR at all, run like five meters and get slapped again. He can legitly camp a hook in like 12 meter distance, you don't hear sh*t but he is instantly on you again. Rank one killer, obviously.
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