Swf, ideas that people suggested and my opinion on them.
Wow another swf forum. This time I'll state what I've heard other people suggested in order to nerf swf and my personal opinion. Removing it completely would be a bad idea so, here are the alternatives!
1. Remove the ability to swf as 4 man and make it 2 man. Interesting choice but I don't suggest it. This suggestion was made for swf that use comms, but if I want to play swf with my buds without comms, wouldn't this be too punishing for me? It would also hurt by some amount the content creators' content since playing with other streamers/YouTubers is more interesting to the viewers.
2. Give bonus blood points to the killer and protect their add-ons from being spent when the face a swf. Good idea, but I don't know if a killer will think it's worth to waste minutes of their time sweating vs swf so they can get some bonus bps and a free white ward.
3. Limit the swf perks by having 2/3 each. I don't mind this change tbh, but it would be a bit to harsh since it would punish creativity.
And now for my personal choice:
4. Make it impossible for 4 man to have the same perks. For example, if I run OoO, Ds, unbreakable and dead hard, nobody else on my swf can have these 4 perks. So we will need to have different builds in order to play. This rewards creativity and removes some annoyance from the killer side since they will have to worry about one ds. Personally, I would also suggest to add some message telling the killer that there's a swf, and maybe also highlighting the swf group if it's less that 4 people.
What do you guys think? Let me know down below.
Comments
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If you ask me, I would like to get the following done with SWF:
Forbid using same perks or at least put some limitation so there can't be 4x4 same perks.
It's just so annoying to get matched against coordinated groups who take 4 head ons and bully you the whole match or take 4 adrenalines and pop 4 insta heals and so on. Having not to deal with that when facing hive-mind groups (even not very coordinated ones) would be so much help and would greatly reduce amount of stress against SWF.
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I like ideas 2 and 4.
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These are my changes. When you play against ANY swf as killer, you gain triple bloodpoints, make it impossible to depip, and you have the potential to triple pip if you win.
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That's literally number 4 xd
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Here's my opinion.
There should NEVER be a punishment for wanting to play together with your friends. However, the game would probably improve a bit if there was a lobby indicator for SWFs and then give additional points for the Killer and any Solos in the lobby for playing with or against SWFs.
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I disagree because some swf make the game extremely frustrating to play killer nowdays. So a nerf would be a good choice.
I do agree that playing with your buddies isn't a bad thing, but playing vs a swf with comms is a nightmare.
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Nerf swf equal to punish. And better way is to reward people rather than punish.
So giving more BP to Killers would be more acceptable.
x1.5 for 2men
x2 for 3men
x2.5 for 2x2men
x3 for 4men
I dont mind losing, I mind that I bring high cost add-on and Swf rush Gen so hard I earn less BP than the add-on, offers that I brought.
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I do agree but this won't be very effective with most killer mains. I would rather play a good game with a bps instead of playing against a swf with 4 ds/unbreakable/dh/bt and shittalk at the end game chat.
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The carrot is more rewarding than getting the stick.
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Somehow I think today, Killers are unable to change character once they get in Lobby, i think the game should remove Lobby, brings 5 players straight into game.
While Swf has ability to full setup before searching a game. Giving a rule that a perk should not being used more than 2. Which mean if 3 survivors in swf has DS (or any perk), 1 of them risking losing a perk once the game start.
This could bring Swf & Solo closer just a bit. That 4 Solo can have 4 DS, while Swf can have 2 DS
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I thinks a simple debuff to repair and healing speed would be enough, 2,4,6% slower depending on group size
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Believe it or not SWF can be a problem for survivors as well and I have had a number of occasions where a killer was in that SWF.
A two man SWF , for a solo teammate, is just as bad as a three.
I can tell you that as solo - not fun.
While your points address the Killers POV (if not part of that SWF) - it leaves the solo's high and dry.
So none of that , at least for a solo survivor, works.
Sorry.
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That's suprisingly incorrect! My suggestion applies only to 4 man swf, the others are suggestions I heard on the forums :3
I do think about solos, as a solo survivor player :)
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This is about killer mains and their experiences with the game though, irrelevant from solo experience, we already know solo needs fixing so get out of here with your 'whataboutism'
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BP/other progression bonuses for killers going against SWF (and solo survivor players for that matter) and SWF indicators after the match are the only ones I can actually imagine ever being implemented.
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There’s another idea out there (mine) that you may not have seen. The Imp!
Expand the concept of SWF by giving the killer a buddy. The Imp (short, stubby, but quick) is a less powerful assistant who can’t injure survivors, but can run around and harass them, break pallets and gens, make them scream, interrupt gen progress, cause them to stumble while running, etc. Most importantly, he has Entity-provided telepathy with the killer (built-in comms you can toggle on or off).
The killer chooses in the lobby if he wants an imp or not. If he chooses yes, he can invite a buddy or wait for a random, but his matchmaking will always prioritize SWF survivor teams over solos.
And there ya have it! The basics at least. If you find my old thread about this from a while back, there’s a lot more detail there.
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The original post title and subsequent info for OP does not state this. Perhaps a good idea would be to change the title and be clearer.
As for you... how about reading and not being an arse to people. See two can be jerks. It's not hard. In fact it's pretty easy to be you.
Next time - try a little class.
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You are either blind or delusional if you can't see this post is directed at helping killer mains having better matches, so don't personally attack me thank you.
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Unless youre into s&m 🤷♂️
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Sad - still no class but at least polite. Progress. There may be hope for you yet. :-)
I think it was you that started that with your unneeded attitude - but as with life - it's about POV isn't in.
Speaking of POV, so we don't derail the topic with our continued unnecessary nonsense, since this thread is all about killers POV (even though topic very clearly states: SWF, Ideas that people suggested and my opinion on them." ) and solutions for the SWF issue:
How much better would a 2 man make it for you (other than less coordination than a full 4 man) - from your side of things. I mean I can see that only 2 is better than 4 but they would still make the game much more difficult for you even as a two man. Wouldn't it?
I like idea number 4 about not having the same perks. I guess the only thing I can see with that is that they would be able to coordinate very synergistic perks that could still de-rail a killer pretty well. Have you come across things like that? Have you managed to combat it okay - or did you find that had the same kind of problems?
Post edited by MaybeShesCrazy on0 -
I disagree with all of these tbh. The problem with the 4th option is that:
- Punishes Bad players
- Removes creative builds that some swf teams want to do.
- Killer seeing a swf team before the match will encourage them to dodge or bring an extremely sweaty build or mori.
- Gives the killer an excuse if they lose, even when they might play bad. I.e "couldn't do anything against a swf team".
- 1 DS will allow the killer to tunnel survivors guaranteed without any real repercussions.
Sorry but limiting players to only having 1 of each perk will just cause too many problems. Also I've always heavily been against killers seeing swf teams before a match.
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A separate ranked and casual mode is the best option I've seen.
We'd obviously need a better ranking system and rank rewards simultaneously. Also revert to the old rank reset system as the new one is just putting everyone at high ranks as it's near impossible to down rank anything substantial.
Anything in casual mode but limit up to 2 swf for ranked.
A changing blood point bonus for either format depending which one has longer queue's.
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Any of the changes you listed that nerfs or inhibits swf groups isn't gonna work as they don't want to punish players for playing with friends.
Also, no one cares about their addons or blood point incentives to face swf. They just want a fun match.
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None of the above. Give solo queue players more information and/or more ability to communicate with their team to close the gap between SWF and solo queue. Perks and BP incentives are not the way to deal with a balance issue; those are just band aids.
I'd like to see things like:
* A chase indicator for all survivors, not just the obsession.
* A totem counter.
* More survivor gestures in addition to beckon and point. They could also consider making gestures usable while moving so that solo players can still communicate with gestures while in a chase.
* Buffs to some aura reading perks, as these are much more common and useful in solo queue anyway.
* HUD indicators for many more perks. For example, a Deliverance indicator when a player is hooked with Deliverance up.
Not all of these changes would hurt killer. For example, the chase indicator could tell you if you're chasing Blendette A, who you haven't seen all game, or Blendette B, who is on death hook. Still, though, these changes would benefit survivor on the whole. I don't think it would be enough to hurt balance, especially since kill rates are already in the 65-70% range as of the last stats drop and I believe the target for balance is 50%, but if this ended up hurting killers too much then BHVR could buff the killer side to compensate.
You could also fight this on another front by accounting for SWF in the MMR system. For example, you could track player performance in particular squads and attempt to assign a separate MMR to them, much in the way that we're going to have separate MMR for each killer. If there's not enough data to make a calculation (maybe because this is like your third game in a given SWF), just fall back on the solo queue MMR.
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I think option 2 making swf optional while incentivising killers to do it is really the only one you'd get the swf playerbase to not revolt at. Here's how I'd implement it.
>Allow swf as an opt in option when selecting play as killer
>Killers still don't know they're facing against swf in the lobby
>Killer daily rituals and tome challenges now award bonus iridescent shards as well as the usual bloodpoints if done with Vs swf enabled
Vs 2 player swf:
Additional 75% bloodpoint modifier (stacks)
Vs 3 player swf:
Additional 150% bloodpoint modifier
Add-ons are not consumed during the trial
Vs 4 player swf:
Additional 200% bloodpoint modifier
Add-ons are not consumed during the trial
Offerings are not consumed during the trial
The killer will recieve a set amount Iridescent shards for each iridescent Emblem earned in the trial.
This might seem like a lot, but it's at this point I'll just remind anytime that whenever someone talks about making swf optional it's met with a cavalcade of "but then no one will do it!" It basically needs to be a lot.
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Personally I didn't have a problem tbh, it could be flawed but it's better than nothing :)
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First or all it's only in 4 man swf, so builds could work around 3 man with same perks perhaps. I doubt it punishes bad players and devs said that their intent wasn't to make ds an anti tunneling perk either way, so I don't see why not
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I still think The Imp is viable. It incentivizes playing against SWF because this feature would add a whole new dimension to the killer experience. Your “reward” is that you have more fun! Furthermore, actually BEING the imp would be a lot of fun for people who aren’t in the mood for the stresses of being an actual killer, but still want to hunt and chase.
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True, better than nothing and flawed is perfectly fine as it's something to build ideas on.
The best ones usually start that way and people work together to tweek and tweek until you get that wonderful "ahha! This'll work." I can't wait to see you get to the ahha moment. It'll happen.
It's why I asked question as I then can look at things from your experiences, understand the struggles you face and then hope other peopel can do that too. 😊
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Buffs are the way to equal things out, not nerfs. They need to buff solo survivor play and killers. Bring solo survivor information capabilities to that of SWF. Then buff killers, likely through perks, to deal with SWFs.
- Killer perks should always be stronger than survivor. In any match, you are looking at 16 survivor perks vs 4 killer perks. The scale should balance. You have opportunities to tweak lots of killer perks that just frankly suck horribly. Territorial Imperative could extra information to the killer when facing an SWF. Perhaps it has a built-in whispers, or the killer's tracking ability is increased so scratch marks are brighter and last longer. Enduring vs SWF works when DS'd more than once? The first DS is all good, but after that, Enduring reduces the duration of the stun. Perhaps Enduring works vs all stuns after the first, instead of just pallets - only vs 3-4 man SWF. Lots and lots of tweaks that could kick in when the game recognizes an SWF. It does not make the killer that much stronger, but gives little edges here and there. (If we buff Solo play right, we can remove the SWF pre-req to many of these effects so the killer is on par with both.)
- Buff solo survivor. Solo play should have a couple of built-in affects. Dark Sense (SWF's are able to share killer/hook information - including direction the killer went or if they are hiding with Insidious). Totem Counter built into several perks (Small Game, Det Hunch, Ace in the Hole). Increased chance to Kobe - yep, give them a better chance to get off the hook alone. The near-endless horror stories from bad solo teammates are more than enough to validate the ability to get yourself out of trouble.
Just a few ideas that could be massaged out, but the idea is that nerfs have not worked. Nerfs have made so many things worse in the game (Looking at you healing nerf that led to the huge focus on getting gens done asap.) Nerfs cause too many negative ripple effects in the game. Stop nerfing, start buffing in small increments. The game will never be fully balanced due to its nature. It can be better balanced though.
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It does punish bad 4 man swfs who are new to the game or just aren't good.
Having to play 3 man swfs so we can all share the same perks isn't a good solution. Your limiting the creativity no matter what.
DS may not be considered an anti-tunnelling perk but it's currently one of the only ways to counter tunnelling.
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let it be as it is, way more inreresting playing vs competitve and strong players even when they outplay you
the only thing is annoying is tbaging and any kind of mockery which survs usualy do if they win
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