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BHVR does not listen to us.
Honestly, this mid chapter update has been the straw that's broken my back. These developers do not listen to anything their players say, and it shows immensely in every single one of these ######### updates they are making.
Let's talk about all the ######### changes that have been made this patch:
- NO ONE wanted Billy changes. What we wanted was ADD-ON changes. Nerf instasaw, that's all ANYONE was saying.
- His chase music is weird and unfitting. Sure, I don't think it sounds that bad by itself, but it doesn't suit Billy. He's one of the original killers, so shouldn't he have original chase music?
- Changes to perks that did NOT need changing. Franklin's was fine as is. Knock Out, albeit kind of weak, was still fine as it was and served its purpose. Now it only applies on BASIC attacks? You guys know this is a LEATHERFACE perk right? What's the ######### point of using it if his power can't apply it? This time would have been better spent buffing the other 60 garbage perks in this game (which takes literally 5 seconds to change and experiment with)
- Subjective thing, but Billy's weird scream thing he does is weird. Some people like it, I personally don't.
- Some add-ons that make me question whether the devs have actually played this game. Because I definitely want to use Mother's Helpings :)))
- The new auras are terrible and hard to see from distance (which is kinda the whole point of them).
The only thing good to come out of this update is Bubba getting deservedly buffed. But the Silent Hill patch also made me angry about some things.
- Midwich is a terrible, TERRIBLE map for both sides. I don't understand the design philosophy that went in to making this map. The pallets, bar 2/3, are all unsafe and not worth using, much like Hawkin's. Plus, this map is just a 'hold W simulator', unless you're playing Nurse (but nobody really does anymore). Getting up and down floors is also a huge waste of time.
- The new legendary cosmetics that are super expensive but we can't customise for whatever reason. I'm guessing out of laziness? Nobody really cares if it looks kinda #########, the whole point of cosmetics is for us to buy them and then use them however we want, not however BHVR wants.
And just things in general:
- Why are we nerfing Billy but killers like Spirit still exist? It was even stated that you guys are HAPPY WITH HOW BILLY WAS PERFORMING, and then you add an overheat mechanic to his chainsaw. It makes no sense. Why don't we spend some time trying to make Spirit fun and interactive to play against? I don't know a single person except biased Spirit mains who don't want her changed or reworked.
- Most of the maps favour survivors heavily. Except for like Hawkin's, The Game, and arguably Lery's and Midwich, I think maps are too survivor-sided. But this all depends on what killer you're playing and the skill of the survivors. But I think the extremely bad maps should be changed (looking at Ormond and Haddonfield). And this is coming from someone who plays both sides pretty equally.
- Quick edit: I somehow forgot the bullshit that are Ebony Moris and keys. Everyone hates them, so just change/remove them :)
Overall, I'm pissed. I don't know how else to word it. We are getting killer changes we didn't want, problematic things are staying problematic, changes to perks that were fine and didn't need changing (while all other garbage perks are left to stay garbage), terrible map design, restrictive cosmetics, really questionable add-on changes, and things that make no sense like the aura changes. Until BHVR starts listening, I don't think I can support this game any longer. They've shown they don't care what their players have to say, so why should I play their game?
Comments
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I love how you are complaining about maps being too survivor sided and that they should be changed, yet BHVR just released a huge patch a few months ago with many map changes that made them more balanced, meanwhile you are accusing them of never listening? That's ridiculous.
BHVR is certainly listening to their community, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten nice buffs/reworks to killers like Doctor, Leatherface or Freddy, and those map changes wouldn't have happen either. It just takes time to implement these changes. Whether BHVR takes too long to implement such balance changes or not is something I can't say, but accusing them of never listening is just a bit ridiculous.
Also, I get that probably the majority didn't want any changes to Billy at all, but there have been enough people that think that he was just a bit too good as well, and BHVR of course tries to listen to their entire community, not just the part of the community that you agree with. And after the feedback from the PTB they even toned down the nerf of Hillbilly quite heavily to make him less affected by the chainsaw overheat.
So I really don't understand how you come to the conclusion that BHVR never listens.
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lmao they mostly pull out changes out of their asses, we were expecting something to happen about spirit or ebony moris/keys or iri heads.
Somehow we get billy changes and a buffed franklins, they might have their bias here and there but they don't listen to either side of the community anyways.
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I don't think removing a few God loops changes much on those maps. They are still pretty survivor-sided in my experience. As long as the survivors aren't potatoes, it's pretty easy to get the gens done and escape.
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The new legendary cosmetics that are super expensive but we can't customise for whatever reason. I'm guessing out of laziness? Nobody really cares if it looks kinda [BAD WORD], the whole point of cosmetics is for us to buy them and then use them however we want, not however BHVR wants.
Unless you're mistaken, legendaries are locked for a reason. For example mixing Lisa Garland's head on Cheryl's body? Wouldn't make sense. Although if you're talking about cosmetics that are called sets (you can't mix and match them) then I can understand that. The latest Nea cosmetic made me disappointed when I discovered I couldn't apply it to other cosmetics (although there was a head glitch with it that made me able to do so).
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What pisses me off about the roar thing billy has is that there's no variations to it. It's (if it's the same as ptb) one ######### sound file that plays every time he uses his power. Put some ######### effort in and make at least 3-5 sound bites so this game doesn't stink of low-effort.
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Yeah I was referring to Nea's. It makes sense to not be able to change the Lisa one, cause it's Lisa and not Cheryl. I was also disappointed when I couldn't mix and match Nea's new outfit.
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Those weren't the only changes to maps. 6 or 7 maps got their size reduced and/or their tile distribution changed so strong loops wouldn't spawn too close together. So many people wanted map changes so they would become more balanced, especially changes to god loops, and that's what BHVR did.
Again, they also have listened to the community in the past as well with many other changes. Whether they listen enough I'm not sure, but they certainly do listen. But as with every developer team, they do make their own decisions as well on what needs to be changed and what not. Not all the changes they make are great in my opinion as well, but accusing them of never ever listening to the community is just overreacting really badly, and makes your post seem ridiculous.
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My head hurts just thinking about this current patch.
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What maps did they change again? Pretty sure the main maps people have issues with are Ormond and Haddonfield, which remained the same, right? But instead they change Macmillan, Autohaven, and the Swamp.
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BHVR had the time to give Billy chase music but not look at add-ons until three months from now. So no. Just because you play the game they care more about the money not the community. Hit them where hurts the bottom line their pockets keep your money in yours.
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You aren't wrong, I will definitely be keeping my money, but I'm not so sure everyone will so I doubt they will change anytime soon.
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Dude, they don't even listen to fog whisperers lol.
Streamers like Puppers and Tofu have been ######### talking BHVR all day for their willingness to just give the big old middle finger to what their community says.
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You can't fix stupid but you can fix complacency if we stop supporting the complacent.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't listen, but I will say they pick and choose. It often feels like they play a completely different game than the rest of us do. They claim Billy was 'meeting their expectations,' so they nerf him. They claimed Nurse was getting 'small tweaks,' and 'mostly numbers,' then they bury her. They claim to fix map sizes, yet the only meaningful map shrinkage was Temple of Pergation. Farm maps are still massive, Ormond is still massive, Mother's Dwelling is still massive. Sound bugs are still here. No mention of any kind of balance to SWF, even though it's somehow okay to nerf viable killers.
There has been some good. Doc rework was good. Ruin, while controversial, allowed me to work with new builds, even though I've been blitzed far more often. Tool box and medkit changes were nice. I can't say anything about Bubba's rework, it's too early.
So, some good things, more bad things. Pick and choose. The greatest flaw I have to give the devs is how agonizingly slow updates are. It's too bad they can't light a fire under their asses. I feel the game would be in a much better state if they did frequent balance passes, instead of having to wait months for anything to be done.
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- Legendary sets being locked is understandable, ones like the Nea one is not, it comes off as laziness and greed
- Midwich is an abomination, after Haddonfield you would think they wouldn't make maps that are this bad
- Nobody who has ever played this game semi seriously would say Billy basekit needed to be touched, only Instasaw/Crack Billy. Changing billy before Spirit, Iri head, Moris or Keys is just annoying at this point.
- They NERFED Knock Out, a perk that already is very weak
btw they fixed the store bug faster than the Gateau issue, so take from that what you will
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P3 Leatherface long ago played three games with him. I can say that he replaced Billy for sure in strength in the right hands. He is no longer build or add-on depend imo.
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Completely agree 100%. I enjoy reworked Doc. I like new Ruin. However, new Ruin did kind of gut any killer without map pressure. Now everyone uses Corrupt Intervention as a replacement.
I am still angry about the map changes, because when I heard they were doing it, I was excited for Ormond and/or Haddonfield to be adjusted. But no, they changed Macmillan, Autohaven and Swamp tile spawns, and shrunk Temple of Purgation. Ormond is still massive and has 99% safe pallets, Haddonfield is still a nightmare for most killers, Mother's Dwelling also is still too big. And yet they favour the more balanced maps.
And yeah, I think we need faster updates as well. It's extremely slow waiting for the most minor of fixes to be changed.
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I agree with everything you said and I'll just say this. All of us have to come to a decision as to what is to be our breaking point. The facts are they are gaining more players than they are losing so in their eyes they are doing a pretty good job....so far. The only way they will listen more to the players is if 1. There is a mass exodus of players 2. They lose revenue. I was quite happy they extended the event and I was able to farm more but all of the changes you mentioned have been terrible. Addons for killers are awful and are not designed in any logical fashion. Why in the world do we have SEVERAL killers with ultra rare & very rare addons that are worse than common's? This is a minor gripe but I haven't heard anyone complain about this yet so I thought i'd bring it up......am I the only one who thinks Billy's new chase music sounds too close to Deathslinger? I mean can't he have something a little more unique?
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well you certainly think HIGHLY of yourself, to know what over 60,000 people were saying. just because it's said on the forum doesn't mean it's the majority of the people, on the contrary the majority of the people DO not get on the forums, and that's even a fraction of who get on the PTS. Just because you and a few friends hear a few streamers talking abut things doesn't mean that the 1000's of streamers and 10's of thousands of people that play the game are thinking the same. You may have some valid points, but what about valid counter points? the DEVs listen to the WHOLE of the community, sifting through crap like your yelling (again with valid points) to find those valid points and that gets passed on to the right team. IF you don't like it, leave. I don't care how much money you've spent in this game, if you're that bent you shouldn't play, find something else you can put your time in and it doesn't bend you. honestly you don't believe the devs listen, why give them the ratings, the plays and the attention when it so bends you. Good luck, i believe you will need it.
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They are to scared to make addons decent because the waaaaa train starts Just expect useless trash every time they mention an addon rework for any other killers.
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I don't where you've been the last couple of patches, but I can confidently say 99% of people disagree with the Billy changes, hate the Midwich map, and think similar things to the points I've mentioned in this thread. You know what the Billy change has done for players? It punishes being inexperienced with him. Sure, experienced Billy players won't feel too much of a difference, but this whole rework is just a deterrent to learn how to play Billy. It's on the same calibre as the Nurse change.
Plus, please don't assume I am whipping out these points because I heard streamers talk about it. That's the go to counter-point anyone like you uses whenever you don't want your BHVR Gods to be called out on. "Omg, this guy is just spurts out any random ######### his favourite streamer says!". You sound like you're content with BHVR making ######### updates and ruining any amount of fun that could be had in DBD. Plus, from what I've seen, most streamers also are against the Billy changes and think it's stupid. All anyone ever had an issue with was instasaw Billy, so what should have been changed? His base-kit? What a joke.
To even say "the devs listen to the WHOLE community" is objectively false. People have wanted keys and mori changes for a long time. People have wanted Spirit changes for a long time. When they announced the Billy changes on the PTB, 99% of people said not to do it, and just change his add-ons. But did they listen? No, they didn't. They didn't even listen to us when it was on the PTB, which is the whole ######### point of putting it on there. They may as well have put it on live servers last patch without any feedback since nothing changed.
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first of all i said more than just streamers. I used more words than that. you know what more than 54,450 people (dropped 5000 from the average of 60K I saw playing the other night and then figured 99% of 55,000) think... you have polled that many people in the span of how many weeks? where is your 99% coming from? stop throwing up big numbers. now if you said I don't think that many of the players like this it's easily accepted that you may have talked to a few hundred people directly and maybe a few hundred more here in this forum etc. to be honest your whole way of speaking in your post is pedantic and haughty.
However you are right, I did misspeak when I said WHOLE.. I meant to say something different so for that I do apologize for the characterization, I should have said "The devs listen to the WHOLE of the community that gives them feedback." that is not 100% or even 99% of the players of the game. Just because they LISTEN to them does not mean they will do something or that they will not do something. Listening means they take the information and mull it over and decide if it has merit with how they wish the game to go. They know not everyone is going to be happy with changes but they have to decide what is the best course of action and it may not be what you or your many people that didn't want to happen.
good bye, you have pushed yourself from belivability to absurdity.
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I know you can't find the opinion of 60,000 people. Not all of them are on the forums to express their opinions, and not all of them care. But look at the forums dude:
How can you honestly say I don't speak for the majority? Everyone is mad at this update. You're completely oblivious to what is happening if you think what I am saying is objectively incorrect.
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lol this forum is populated by less people than play on the PTB! you couldn't get matches on the forums! lol and the PTB has so few players there has been no match making what so ever on it ever. this is the minority of users, not even close to 1/2 the users plus many times there are smurf accounts that post with 1 post just because people want to post their views multiple times to make it seem like it's more than just them. (I however am not saying this about you, just talking in general) how can you extrapolate 38 posts to equate to 99% of the game's users? lol it's not even close. if each of these posts is by an actual user and not a smurf account, 38/60,000 = less than a ten thousanth (6.43(repeating)e-4) percent. now do you see what i mean? you're not even within a hundredth of a percent and that's using the average of one of the days in the last two weeks (don't remember the exact day)
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Like it or not but there were people complaining that Billy was too strong and BHVR listened. After the PTB people complained about how useless he was with this new mechanic and guess what... They listened and toned it back. People have been complaining for ages to change perks and thus they have been doing so. Hell I even remember seeing people say after the PTB that Billy didn't have any chase music and now he does. BHVR may not always change things the way you want them changed, but claiming they don't do anything and don't listen at all is unfair.
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You are something else. You realise what is said on the forums by the majority of people, typically represents what the in-game players think as well? They all experience the same game as we do. You are blinded by your own ignorance to not see this update as an issue.
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They changed the Cornfield maps quite a bit. Which people were complaining about a lot. Probably more so than Ormond. They reduced the size and made the tileset distribution fairer on Rotten Fields, Cowshed and Thompson's. The god loops on the other two maps are also gone. They also changed the tile distribution on Ormond. I don't think those changes were enough for Ormond but they definitely did make changes to that map, and it's at least a bit more bearable. They also got rid of the long fences on Haddonfield, and while again I don't think that's even remotely enough, they did at least something.
A few other maps also have seen their size reduced, and a lot of the god loops were nerfed, some of them in fact too much, and that's always been something people have been complaining about.
Downplaying the map changes is a bit ridiculous, those changes did quite a bit. Even just getting rid of the god loops made a nice difference on those maps. And again, there were much more changes as well that show that the devs aren't completely ignoring the feedback of the community.
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to be honest im quite impressed they actually tweaked the numbers of the overheat mechanic, its almost like it its there anymore, the only problem are the addons which are mostly useless
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I think there actually gonna change em in the hotfix that's coming up, I mean I wouldn't hope on it because BHVR isnt the best at designing add-ons but Its something
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MY IGNORANCE? What I have said is that the FORUMS are a MINORITY and a small one at that of the people that play this game. I did not say there were no problems, but when a majority of a minority that say something that does not mean that is 1) True, 2) an issue that MUST be addressed that second, and 3) anything meaningful what so ever.
when there are people making smurf accounts to try and get their message out, and just like this one complaining with no real suggestions other than FIX THIS CRAP it is not always seen, though the devs say they read these posts and I believe them and that they will do what they can. You attack me, yet I do not attack you. I only attack your wording, you assume the majority (and damn near everyone that plays this game) has the same words as YOU! this is not true and that is what I have said. you posted a picture edited together of 38 posts, I counted them assuming they were posted by separate people, and found that the percentage of people you showed of the 60,000 known users was less than one thousandth of a percent! how is that 99% of the 60000 you say which is 59,450 people??? it isn't. you attack without hard facts when i present hard facts you won't accept them. this is what ignorance really is, and most everyone will say that the people on game message boards are a very small fraction of the people that play the game. get over yourself and stop attacking my character and find a way to prove your assertion that over 59K people have the same opinion as you.
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The Billy nerfs are fine and I honestly like the new music. I can still curve fine and everything so the changes are probably for the better. But yes, the basic attack requirement is stupid and needs to stop being a thing. Infectious Fright literally became a high value perk just by this simple change. Maps like Midwich, Ormond and other terrible maps desperately need changing as soon as possible, I don't know how abusable maps are even active at the time.
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On the contrary, the company is terrified of offending people for the most part and will give them whatever they want even if it flies in the face of balance.
I think them completely caving in on the Billy changes is a perfect example of that.
Also Billy was getting more kills than Spirit. He needed the nerf. I like how everyone tries to throw her under the bus when Billy is actually easier to pick up and win with for most players.
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Buddy I don't know how else to word it. If nearly every forum thread is about this bad update, then you can very safely assume that the majority of players who can't be bothered to voice their opinions think the same. It's basic statistics. The forums are a large enough sample size to assume this was a bad update. They are representative of the silent majority.
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no you can not safely assume that, this is where you are wrong. period end of statement.
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I agree with op. I hate the auras now. I loved Billy before. And if they made new music, it should have been BANJOS, DAMMIT!
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I was all for the Billy changes, too many times do I have my ass rode by a Billy who then just mows my ass down... personally, I'd rather go against a Spirit, at least she doesn't instadown as a basekit.
I don't care for the Leatherface buff... he was already annoying to go against...
The auras I will agree with, I hate them, especially as a killer, it's hard to see using BBQ, etc.
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