People who truly believe Spirit is not OP. Why?

People say shes op because there is no counter play, because she is all rng but the fact is that she is guessing too, survivor can do stuff to trick her and she can do so aswell. Spirit is usually in control of a chase and thats another reason why people dont like her, because killer can actually decide how the chase is gonna end and not relying on survivors making a mistake. Also its funny that people complain about how rng she is when most of the mechanics that survivor can utilize are kind of rng as well, for example gen placement, totem placement and then loops which are also a rng( a mindgame). Survivor is in control of a loop against most killers and you cant just keep bruteforcing every loop or else you loose. You have to try and do the mind game. By doing so you are just guessing what the survivor is gonna do....

Your argument was there is no way to tell shes using it while in a chase. That it's the only annoying problem with her.

I gave one simple solution how to tell.

Wether or not it's a good use of her power, it's what was being discussed. So dont deflect, or try to be edgy and say "herr derr that's a bad use of her power, bad example herr derr" when that was a problem given. When you gave a problem and I gave a solution, you cant just change what your issue is.

You brought up her using it in a chase, not me.

Look behind you and you can see.

Because against and as her I've seen it's more than doable to throw her off your scent or delay her..because she's still bound by the logic of the map even while invisible , and yes her chase shakeup makes her disliked by frankly lower end survivors and even some good ones..however..that's only be cause they're viewing her 1v1 which is never how a game like dbd should be viewed..let's look at a couple other games like this

F13: Go by yourself vs Jason? He kills you if he catches you immediately

Predator hunting grounds: 1v1 the predators? Your dead ..period

Last year: 1v1 the killer? Dead

You start to see a pattern emerge here...

The cherry on top is of course swf..I can't consider ANY killer OP unless they just slaughter swf every time with 4 gens up and crap like that..because swf can't be changed or balanced..you have to build around it..and even the best spirits can barely keep up and that's while making good reads, decisions, builds, pressuring effectively and most of all reading your opponent..no good survivor is just going to run out into the blue vs spirit especially if injured..a bit long of an explanation but I hope I made it clear as to my meaning

Personally I would argue that nurse is op....but only in the hands of like the few players that have those thousands of hours exclusively on nurse. So its a tough sell, where I would prefer if her potential was just nerfed a bit more, but the annoying aspects of her was reduced. So either something like, removing the blink stun but giving her ability a larger cool down. to compensate maybe make her movement speed 100% instead of 95 or something similar. But thats just me ranting.

But as for spirit, I dont think she is op either, but I would certainly consider her top three killer though and maybe a bit too strong. I dont play enough survivor against spirit to 100% say which parts of her might be too strong, since I usually play killer. But maybe if you she would phase in and out of her spirit powers once every 1-2 seconds or something like that, so the survivors could see where she was at that moment in her phasing. If thats too much counterplay given to the spirit, then maybe spirit should just be able to see outside the phasing realm as well during those moments.

But thats really all I would argue could be a problem, that or her standing still and "mindgaming" you at a pallet. Thats stupid at the very least.

People act like it's impossible to loop her, but when you're on the other side of the pallet you still have 180 degrees of safe movement, while she can only phase for a few seconds. Pick a direction and walk for a couple seconds, then start running again. Most of the time she's either still on the other side of the pallet, or is gonna miss.

If i play spirit i dont use stridor. Somewhat spirits with stridor annoys the hell out of me. I have the feeling that you dont have to be good or godtier spirit if you use stridor. I am learning her and i fk up really much, but i like that. I want to learn spirit not doing it amazing because of stridor.

there is some counterplay tho. But that depends on the playstyle of the spirit and if she is using STRIDOR.

i agree with you. Stridor on spirit is stupid. There is less and less counterplay then unless you use iron will.

Really? I have played like 7 matches vs new billy and he has lost every single match. Even before the patch, He didn't reallyll feel like a threat. When you face Billy, you should assume that he has BBQ as perk, he and among few other killers is able capitalize on the aura reading due his speed. A player getting instant downed by billy chainsaw is clear cut mistake. Getting chainsaw while another person is on hook against billy is as bad as a survivor bringing a killer to hook during the chase on unhook event. Billy at base kit is very poor at loops, A big reason why people believed Billy was most balanced killer in the game is because he is killer that purely capitalize on survivors ignorance and looping error. Curving is technique that works because survivors want hug the loops of objects so that they can maximize the amount of loops they can get per filler/tile set pallet and billy could take advantage of this because he can glide around objects at very fast speeds. The problem base kit billy is that base kit billy has very long charge time and when he charges his chainsaw, he gets slowed down and survivor move faster than him meaning that most of the time, they're able to get to windows or make most corners of loops due to sheer slowdown of his chainsaw.

If you wanted reliable hit good survivors with solid movement with base kit billy, you needed to be around 4~ meters distance which is like half distance of M1 lunge attack, so its basically almost hugging them, but with charge time add-on, these add-on made it so that billy gets slowed for less time and survivor has much less time to react to his chainsaw, so for each charge time add-on used, he would gain like 2 meters extra distance, so suddenly, he can reliable hit chainsaws from 8 meters compare 4 meters and that is huge... difference. The curving add-on also played big difference, if he moves faster around during curving, it means that you have respect the possibility that he could curve around straight pathway. It created mindgames where at certain distances, you had the choice as survivor to either go outward to make his chainsaw miss or to predict that billy reads that your going to go outward and he can curve outward and hit you. Billy old add-ons allowed him to mindgame loops and be a very scary chase killer that perhaps has some opportunity to beat good looping.

I think major reason why billy got changed was because old Billy dumpster rank 20 survivors and the reality is that bad survivors are bad at looping and therefore, Base-kit billy will still dominate trash survivors because Instant downs is easy way dumpster bad players. Billy is easy to play against bad players because curving isn't even necessary to beat them, but his skill-cap does increase the better the survivor is. Billy changes are major step in wrong direction.

Spirit is different ballgame entirely. She is balanced around her cooldown of phase walk, her 110% movement speed and her cast time to enter phase walk and the requirement to hit 2 times. The 110% makes it so that majority of the pallets for her are unplayable without her ability, so most of the time, if the spirit ability is on cooldown, Spirit will typically break the pallet and your forced to drop them as survivor as they themselves are the mindgame, otherwise Spirit can just camp the pallet and wait till her ability is off cooldown, enter it and just hit survivor due to sheer speed, unpredictability of activation and scratch marks. I would say there are 3 situations that you'll commonly get into when playing vs Spirit. The first situation is, you drop safe filler pallet, she stands still at a pallet. Typically easiest thing to do against that is if the ability is on cooldown, just move to another tile if possible, If it isn't possible and she has her ability up, you need either pay attention to her small crystal lighting up or listen to footsteps when she moves in phase walk and try to exhaust spirit meter. a lot of the time you can either purpose run around it, then walk back and most spirits will just go right through you(If uninjured). The second situation is that she breaks a pallet, than uses phase walk to try cut you off on next loop, Juking in open field is really hard against a good spirit but I have done it, most of the time, you'll get to next pallet or window and you have the choice to either drop pallet on your side or drop pallet on the other side, the same option exists for window vaults and its basically another 50/50. Tileset loops are 3rd situation, they're very interesting but easiest to use. Again its all about listening to her footsteps, you can either drop pallet or use jungle gym/tileset windows as mindgames to drain spirit gauge. Spirit with Stridor is incredibly hard to mindgame as juking player who has good tracking fundamentals is very difficult. Its why people rate spirit as either #1 or #2 killer in the game. I think she's best killer in the game but I don't think she needs any changes. I think all killers should have mindgames to their ability that greatly enrich the chase. They shouldn't disable looping, they should make it harder to loop and that is exactly what spirit power does. Spirit and bunch of other killers that have some control in the chase is good gameplay.

You're missing my point.

If she's faking it or phasing is a guess. If you put yourself in a situation where your guess as to whether or not she's phasing determines if you get hit or not, you misplayed.

You are trying to react to what she's doing, instead of making her react to what you're doing. That is the difference that puts you in a guess situation or a mind game situation.

You want to force a mind game situation. You need to be pro-active, not reactive.

guy, really you are asking this in a killer forum? What do you expect?

no, because no, change my mind.

Dude she does have Map Presence. She has 172% movement speed during phase. That's 62% of her normal speed, and she gets that for 8 seconds. Whisperers is a meta perk on (literally every killer) her, because she can just go within 32 meters of a gen and keep phasing around, causing her to get all the pressure she needs with 1 simple phase. Her 1v4 is pretty good, but her 1v1 is extremely good. She forces a guess onto the survivor by making them have to think "Is she standing still? Or is she phasing?" That's not a mindgame as there is no reading to it. It's a guess. Her Power is insanely OP in 1v1 but it's decent in 1v4. Unlike Nurse, however, she doesn't have extremely strong at both. Just a really strong one and a decent one. There's some killers that have really strong snowball, but because of that are weak like Hag. With the slowdown coming soon (probs not cuz Bhvr makes too many empty promises) Those killers will become the best killers in the game because they won't have to set up. Spirit she has her power from the get-go, and doesn't have to snowball. I feel like her entire kit needs a rework just to make her fun to play against, because they nerfed Billy for 0 reason why can't they nerf Spirit, a killer complained about 24/7? It's because the devs are noobs. They want a killer that doesn't take skill and that they can have new players play, Despite the fact that killer is much stronger than survivor at 200 hours and under and rank 10 - 20. Billy took skill, so they nerfed him. The devs just like nerfing things that nobody complains about and then not changing things that people complain about because according to Mathieu Cote, infuriation is a good part of DBD. The devs want us to get pissed, they don't care about us they only care about money. Which is why Spirit has yet to be changed. Which is why she is unfun, but not OP. She just has the illusion of being OP. Doesn't mean she isn't extremely strong though. I just wish they would change her and actually make her fun, ask the community if it's good, make a ptb, change some things, and make sure both survivors and killers enjoy her.

I love vrs spirit it's super God damn scary the only killer I dread being injured against I feel rewarded if I put duke her or make correct reads. It's good fun for myself I don't get why she is hated.

She's not OP, but it's that she has no counterplay and is not enjoyable to play against, so I'd rather just kill myself on the first hook and move on and get ANY other killer but Spirit, I'd much rather go against Nurse than Spirit.

Put quite simply, i have won and lost against both bad and good spirits. I play stealthy, I play her in in our KWF games so i have a broad idea of what the tactics are and I pay attention to certain tells that might alert me to what perks they are using.

Sometimes I will get utterly flattened, either by my own stupidity or because they are pretty damn good at predicting what I'M going to do. Other times i'm out the gate and considering it a good if somewhat tense game.

My experiences may not be your experiences, but frankly, I'll pee my pants over a Zoom Zoom Billy or a gen grab Myers before i worry over a spirit.

I think to give more visual indication on her, to make cleaner when she start using her power can be a good thing when she stand still at loops, and not hurt her, because she can fast cancel and fake it.

Cause she's fun.

I don't enjoy going against clown or legion cause it's braindead looping, you have to plan or strategise 0 times during a chase. Spirit actually requires SOME thought from my part (looking at the grass, hearing for footsteps, THINKING what she's thinking or what she wants to do).

It's not just mindlessly going around a couple crates or walls, window vault, pallet, repeat. Idk why people HATE playing the game so much, if I wanted a bot that just followed around and broke pallets I'd go to the tutorial.