We need a harsher punishment for the survivors who kill themselves on hook

Retromind
Retromind Member Posts: 156
edited August 2020 in General Discussions

The title. As a player who plays 70% survivor and 30% killer, it's really annoying when an entitled survivor kills himself on hook the moment he gets outplayed by the killer in first 40 seconds. This is basically a death sentence for a survivor team and an easy game for the killer. Obviously the ranking doesn't matter because it doesn't have any inherent value and it is not hard to get back to a higher rank because the game rewards even the mediocre players for their poor performance. I am really not sure what devs could do to prevent this because at the moment, every second game has this one guy who just straight up kills himself and the game quality suffers dramatically from that.

Edit: since an impressive amount of people have difficulties reading, I will paraphrase / highlight the point I was trying to make.

The self-unhook is a game mechanic available for everyone at any time, I haven't told once people should get punished for using it / become the hostages in the game.

The person who hook-kills himself in the beginning of the game (<---- this part is very important) RUINS THE EXPERIENCE for the rest of survivors making it much harder for them to win. This care-free behavior at the moment is punished only by a measly depip which no one cares about because frankly ranking as a survivor is EXTREMELY easy to do. If you honestly think every 2nd or 3rd game to play as trio vs a killer is something natural and expected - you should stop. This is a 4v1 asymmetrical game, a missing survivor is devastating for the rest of the survivors.

Post edited by Retromind on
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Comments

  • Xbob42
    Xbob42 Member Posts: 1,117

    Punishment =! Forced

    You can still do it, you just don't get to quit games with no repercussions.

  • DrDeepwound
    DrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557
    edited August 2020

    I was reading the hotfix notes on an unrelated game, an early access game that barely has 1000 players on at a time,.... and saw this. It made me giggle a little...

    "If someone disconnects, everyone fails the dungeon. It’s a major feel bad, we’re working on several systems (Bots, namely) to alleviate this."

    They are implimenting this before the game even launches. Not saying bots ARE the answer, don't know how I feel about them but it was an LOL for me.

  • iOverSpray
    iOverSpray Member Posts: 101

    You can start by once again fixing this awful match making and stop pairing my rank 1 with rank 20 potatoes. Then maybe I'd have more reasons to stay in a game. Running a killer for 60 seconds and 0 gens popping is quite a discouragement.

  • Retromind
    Retromind Member Posts: 156

    Easy, the system will see the difference between DC and failing at unhooking, if it detects it was a DC you will get your timer before joining another game as we currently have, if you failed at unhooking it will check how many times you failed that particular day and will punish you, it might not punish you if the game has reached a certain point in time (late game) but will most definitely deliver justice if it detects a unsuccessful unhooking in the early game, especially paired with the same attempts that were done that single day.


    That wasn't so hard, was it ?

  • Retromind
    Retromind Member Posts: 156
    edited August 2020

    The system sees the difference between a DC and fail at unhook, if u get DC you get your usual timer before joining another game. If you failed at unhooking it might check the point in time the current match is going and punish if you failed at unhooking in early game, especially paired with other failed unhooks that particular day.


    That wasn't so hard, was it?

  • Retromind
    Retromind Member Posts: 156
    edited August 2020

    I'm not a game designer, I'm just throwing around the ideas which might help to deal with the current situation (interesting that you see no problem in playing as 3 survivors at 00:40 mark, but whatever).

    If the game cannot see the overall time the game lasts, it can be easily added. It's a feature which has been for more than 30-40 years in video games, it's a feature which sprouted a whole movement of speedrun gaming.

    In my mind a punishment for ruining the game for other 4 people (killer included obviously) might be a hidden ladder in which such people might be put and allowed play with other entitled crybabies who fail at unhooking in the beginning of the game, something Dota2 has implemented long time ago to combat toxic players. Consider it an unseen parallel world in which everything is the same, the main difference is in the mindset of the survivors who are willing to ruin the game for others because their ego was shattered when they got outplayed one time in the beginning of the match.

    Also, not sure why are you are bringing the DC again, I'm clearly talking about the fail unhooks. If you DC, you get a timer.

  • Retromind
    Retromind Member Posts: 156

    yet another one who missed the whole point of this thread

  • Dpooly
    Dpooly Member Posts: 474
    edited August 2020

    @Retromind We see the point and are countering it with another valid point. Unfair games with early DC's, toxic sandbaggers or mori tunnels are just boring, stupid and a waste of time. I recently read Peanits(?) saying mori's and keys are on the map as well as Iridescent Head and probably more to be looked at. The MMR efficiency and hopefully alot of bugs are their main priority at the moment

  • cheetocultleader
    cheetocultleader Member Posts: 1,259

    On point. Every stint I play (2+ hours) I seem to die at least once to lag spikes. Last time was just NoED going off and lagging me just a split second long enough.

  • Mekochi
    Mekochi Member Posts: 942
    edited August 2020

    But sometimes the hook kills you even when spam pressing 'A' happened to my friend and it still happens sometimes cuz he's eating and isn't paying attention. Sometimes people don't do it on purpose, they might have to go irl. You never know the reasoning. So let's say it was an innocent person without ill intent, why should they be punished?

    Edit: Trying to unhook is understandable in higher ranks, but in lower ranks, come on. With new MMR (only on Xbox rn but will be on other things most likely) you just might get put with noobs. So that's not on them, that's because the game marked you as a noob level player. I main survivor as well, and I have no problem with people killing themself on hook, because it usually benefits me, the killers I play against are chill.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    You know how before they implemented the DC penalty system, the old system simply kept track of how often one DC'd, and if they DC'd too frequently in a given span of time, they might get punished?

    Something like that would be good. If a player dies on a hook very early in such a way that it's very likely that they deliberately killed themselves on hook as a way of ragequitting, keep note of that. If it happens too frequently in a given span of time, give 'em a temp ban.

  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    fine, we will also punish you when you get a gen done, and a totem. Want the pallets punished when they are used and you don't like it? if it is in match functionality it should not be punished unless there was an exploit that the devs have found that people are using (try to get off and person yoinks you and you end up in perma sprint mode (exploit). You are being silly and sure people do this, if you want to punish this make it so that people can't get off the hooks by themselves AT ALL... Make it so there is NO way to do it perk or otherwise. You need to understand that you are calling for people to be punished for playing the game, not for using out of match functionality. There is a difference. one requires you to leave the match functionality behind and click a button (disconnect) which has been abused.

    Also people who argue about DC penalties only want to DC without punishment yet their DC punishes the people in game equally. the first hook killing self argument falls flat when you look at it in the realm of what functionality they are using. stop being silly and wanting to punish people for using game mechanics as intended.

  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    there was no system like that, it required the staff to 24/7 monitor people's accounts and there is not enough people to do that on behavior's staff. do you want your game breaking bugs fixed at all?

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    Yes there was. It's why the devs kept saying "Don't report disconnects" since there was a system that automatically kept track of that.

  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    the system did keep track sure but it required people to monitor it and that never happened. I saw someone disconnect 10 times in ONE stream that was less than 5 hours long. this is why I report all dcs when there is no automated penalties. It never got used, monitored and people got upset about it, there was no action EVER taken from that.

  • Agent47Penguin
    Agent47Penguin Member Posts: 9

    This is absolutely ridiculous, yes it’s very annoying when a teammate kills themself on hook. But what about the other players who accidentally didn’t press struggle or those who need to die in order for their other teammate to get hatch..? You just can’t punish the single person who kills themself on hook by themself without punishing everyone else.

  • Retromind
    Retromind Member Posts: 156
    edited August 2020

    @Freki I agree that the self-unhook is a game mechanic available for everyone at any time, I haven't told once people should get punished for using it. But from your incoherent mess of a text I can confidently say you didn't get the point I was trying to make so let me break it down once again.

    The person who hook-kills himself in the beginning of the game RUINS THE EXPERIENCE for the rest of survivors making it much harder for them to win. This care-free behavior at the moment is punished only by a measly depip which no one cares about because frankly ranking as a survivor is EXTREMELY easy to do.

    If you honestly think every 2nd or 3rd game to play as trio vs a killer is something natural and expected - you should stop. This is a 4v1 asymmetrical game, a missing survivor is devastating for the rest of the survivors. If you read my previous posts (highly doubt you will), you would see how this problem can be solved.

    Also, no need for human intervention to "monitor" this behavior as there are plenty of algorithms used by many game developers (guess it was common sense, clearly not).

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    The problem was that the threshold to punish someone was WAY too high, so it ended up not being enough of a disincentive to not DC. That's why it got switched to the current DC Penalty system.

    Manually reporting DCs was bad because it would waste the time of people who read those unnecessary reports rather than reports that actually did warrant someone looking at them.

  • RoMainPuppy
    RoMainPuppy Member Posts: 507

    They have no way to differentiate between someone using the "leave match" button to someone literally pulling the plug. I sincerely doubt they could find a way to differentiate WHEN you try to ######### on first hook. Also again, what punishment are you going to GIVE them. A time out penalty for killing themselves on hook? ######### no. You wanna make people leave in droves? This is how you do it.

    DBD is not LoL, it is not competitive like LoL, the matches last far less time, it is a FAR easier game with less mechanics, it doesn't need a "leaver penalty" for SUICIDING on hook. They already have a penalty for d/cs (which can be an actual problem), deal with it.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    A time out penalty for excessively killing themselves on hook. Like, doing so at a rate where there is absolutely no justification.

  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    you know this for a fact? or are you guessing because i've told you that people disconnected without worry of punishment with this "system" ? please share where you have found the information of the "thresholds". also it does not waste the time of someone, if can call attention to someone that dc's a great deal of time and they could then take action, but it was not being done so no one got banned etc. ALSO the dc penalty system has a lasting information with the dedicated server where as before there was no data to show why a dc happened because of the fact that the match was connected between the players. sure information ends up transmitted to the behavior server but it was not the information that was needed.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    This was said by the devs a good while back, if memory serves correctly.

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 1,293

    No? You can't force them to keep playing if they don't want to. And it's impossible to enforce anyway


  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    i never heard the devs say anything more than "don't use the ticket system to report dc's" (which I stopped using but i kept reporting unsportsmanlike conduct rage quit). but it was never used, the information never touched, and that's worse than having a system that's hackable or punishing people for dc's that they have no control over.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    Tell that to the Killers who have no way of leaving the match early without disconnecting.

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 1,293

    Yea that's also a problem and the devs can easily fix by allowing killers to open the exit gate at any time


  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    So the devs can fix the problem by giving the Killers the ability to prevent the Survivors from playing the game?

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871
  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    lol i have seeing hook kills and the other 3 gotten out. AND NOT because the killer went easy on them. it's called rely on yourself not everyone else. I've gotten out as solo because I relied on myself and not others, sure it was out the hatch in a few cases but not always.

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 1,293
    edited August 2020

    If the killer truly doesn't feel like playing that match yes it could be an option. do you have any suggestions?


  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    the fact I consistantly saw a streamer disconnect many times a night, and nothing EVER happened to her what so ever and she continually bragged that she can dc without penalty.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    Hence why devs said that the threshold was too high and why they changed the system.

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 1,293

    The devs could in theory just have an auto safety pip if the killer uses this option


  • RoMainPuppy
    RoMainPuppy Member Posts: 507

    How will they keep track of this though? What will count? Only from first hook? Will second hook count? What if you miss a struggle button mash and #########? What if you try to kobe and fail and miss a struggle button mash? Does that count? What if a bug doesn't allow you to struggle? What if you just NEVER get saved? Will that count? How will they be able to differentiate?

    If it's just person died on first hook X amount of times today that still doesn't mean anything. Sometimes you get ######### teammates game after game, who don't save you till struggle or don't even SAVE YOU at all. Again, HOW will they differentiate?

    Killing yourself on hook is literally an option the game gives you, if a person doesn't want to play through that match they shouldn't be forced to. Which is what this will do.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    So the Killer can prevent Survivors from having a chance to pip.

  • Xzan
    Xzan Member Posts: 907

    Put a timer (maybe 5 minutes?) on it and it's fine. Either the killer can open the gates or go into the basement where the entity will grab him and end the round.

  • NinjaDette1
    NinjaDette1 Member Posts: 1,289
    edited August 2020

    In all honesty as someone who equally plays on both sides.I’d say that people have every right to say what they feel and we should respect everyone’s opinions.But to go on and say survivors should be punished.Is like ignoring the fact that half of the DBD killers intentionally go out of their way to ruin the game for others for childish like reasons.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    If the Survivor is hooked within a certain amount of time after the trial has started, has spent less than a certain amount of time total on the hook, and dies in one hook, it would qualify. Give it a decent threshold so that the occasional misstep because of a missed button mash or something isn't liable to be punished.