We need a harsher punishment for the survivors who kill themselves on hook
The title. As a player who plays 70% survivor and 30% killer, it's really annoying when an entitled survivor kills himself on hook the moment he gets outplayed by the killer in first 40 seconds. This is basically a death sentence for a survivor team and an easy game for the killer. Obviously the ranking doesn't matter because it doesn't have any inherent value and it is not hard to get back to a higher rank because the game rewards even the mediocre players for their poor performance. I am really not sure what devs could do to prevent this because at the moment, every second game has this one guy who just straight up kills himself and the game quality suffers dramatically from that.
Edit: since an impressive amount of people have difficulties reading, I will paraphrase / highlight the point I was trying to make.
The self-unhook is a game mechanic available for everyone at any time, I haven't told once people should get punished for using it / become the hostages in the game.
The person who hook-kills himself in the beginning of the game (<---- this part is very important) RUINS THE EXPERIENCE for the rest of survivors making it much harder for them to win. This care-free behavior at the moment is punished only by a measly depip which no one cares about because frankly ranking as a survivor is EXTREMELY easy to do. If you honestly think every 2nd or 3rd game to play as trio vs a killer is something natural and expected - you should stop. This is a 4v1 asymmetrical game, a missing survivor is devastating for the rest of the survivors.
Nope. The very first thing we NEED to adress, is insta-down addons like the god-awful iri hatchets. Then Moris and THEN we can talk about punishing those who still want to escape the game early.
As long as all those mechanics remain in the game (and yes, keys are BS as well and need to be either removed or reworked), I completely understand everyone, who doesn't want to be part of minutes of stupidity.
Are you serious? You can't force me to stay into a 5 gen game with 1-2 dc's, iri head 5 gen slug, mori tunneled off hook.
Next game please!
Can't force people to stay in game, next
Punishment =! Forced
You can still do it, you just don't get to quit games with no repercussions.
I was reading the hotfix notes on an unrelated game, an early access game that barely has 1000 players on at a time,.... and saw this. It made me giggle a little...
"If someone disconnects, everyone fails the dungeon. It’s a major feel bad, we’re working on several systems (Bots, namely) to alleviate this."
They are implimenting this before the game even launches. Not saying bots ARE the answer, don't know how I feel about them but it was an LOL for me.
It's obvious people have really poor reading skills in this thread. I am talking about harsher punishment, not a hostage situation. You're free to fail at unhooking yourself, but if you do that you need to get punished much harder which hopefully will make you think twice before doing that.
You can start by once again fixing this awful match making and stop pairing my rank 1 with rank 20 potatoes. Then maybe I'd have more reasons to stay in a game. Running a killer for 60 seconds and 0 gens popping is quite a discouragement.
Everyone read what you said but it just doesn't make sense. What is a "harsher punishment". They die. That's the punishment. Do you want someone to irl punch them in the chest too?
And then let's say you get what you want. What if my first hook doesn't happen until late in the game and I want to kill myself to give the last person a chance to escape. Does that get the same punishment as killing myself on hook earlier in the game?
Because I can already tell you DBD doesn't care about early game vs late game and can't differentiate. I got a DC penalty once while I was opening the exit gates, my power flickered and caused the internet to go out. Didn't matter that it was late game or that I didn't DC intentionally. All the game cares about is, "it happened, here's your punishment."
So how would your supposed punishment separate early game saboteurs from late game strategic death
Easy, the system will see the difference between DC and failing at unhooking, if it detects it was a DC you will get your timer before joining another game as we currently have, if you failed at unhooking it will check how many times you failed that particular day and will punish you, it might not punish you if the game has reached a certain point in time (late game) but will most definitely deliver justice if it detects a unsuccessful unhooking in the early game, especially paired with the same attempts that were done that single day.
That wasn't so hard, was it ?
The system sees the difference between a DC and fail at unhook, if u get DC you get your usual timer before joining another game. If you failed at unhooking it might check the point in time the current match is going and punish if you failed at unhooking in early game, especially paired with other failed unhooks that particular day.
That wasn't so hard, was it?
Punish HOW? you have yet to answer that. What kind of punishment besides the death of their character are you looking for?
And do you really think the DBD system can actually check the point in time in which something occurred during a match and self regulate to decide whether or not something is punishable????
Because again, I just gave you an example of when I was disconnected from the END of a match which hurts no one but me, and I still got a penalty.
I'm not a game designer, I'm just throwing around the ideas which might help to deal with the current situation (interesting that you see no problem in playing as 3 survivors at 00:40 mark, but whatever).
If the game cannot see the overall time the game lasts, it can be easily added. It's a feature which has been for more than 30-40 years in video games, it's a feature which sprouted a whole movement of speedrun gaming.
In my mind a punishment for ruining the game for other 4 people (killer included obviously) might be a hidden ladder in which such people might be put and allowed play with other entitled crybabies who fail at unhooking in the beginning of the game, something Dota2 has implemented long time ago to combat toxic players. Consider it an unseen parallel world in which everything is the same, the main difference is in the mindset of the survivors who are willing to ruin the game for others because their ego was shattered when they got outplayed one time in the beginning of the match.
Also, not sure why are you are bringing the DC again, I'm clearly talking about the fail unhooks. If you DC, you get a timer.
As others have said you can't force people to stay in a game. Especially when there is a killer running iri head, mori tunnel off first hook etc. Fix the reasons why people want to kill themselves on hook or DC and it will happen less. In my opinion mori's need reworked completely, strong addons need to be looked at, and keys also need reworked or removed to make things fair on both sides.
yet another one who missed the whole point of this thread
@Retromind We see the point and are countering it with another valid point. Unfair games with early DC's, toxic sandbaggers or mori tunnels are just boring, stupid and a waste of time. I recently read Peanits(?) saying mori's and keys are on the map as well as Iridescent Head and probably more to be looked at. The MMR efficiency and hopefully alot of bugs are their main priority at the moment
While it is annoying when someone will kill themselves on the hook right the first time they are caught, especially when it's within the first minute or two of the match beginning, I don't believe a punishment should be given. They may have tried to unhook themselves, failed and then missed a key press in struggle - it happens; lag, a distraction, miss the button (yes, I've done that). They may have been called away so got out of the match quickly.
I'm not saying people don't deliberately kill themselves to avoid the disconnection penalty; I've seen plenty of that too but you can't force people to stay in a match. I'd rather they get out then go hide and be unproductive because they don't like the map or the killer.
you can force killers....
Nope you can't force me to stay in a game im not having fun in.
On point. Every stint I play (2+ hours) I seem to die at least once to lag spikes. Last time was just NoED going off and lagging me just a split second long enough.
As both a killer and survivor main.You can’t force people to stay in a game especially when the killer is being a little (insert swearing here). And or teammate(s) who pretend their going to unhook you and leave.
But sometimes the hook kills you even when spam pressing 'A' happened to my friend and it still happens sometimes cuz he's eating and isn't paying attention. Sometimes people don't do it on purpose, they might have to go irl. You never know the reasoning. So let's say it was an innocent person without ill intent, why should they be punished?
Edit: Trying to unhook is understandable in higher ranks, but in lower ranks, come on. With new MMR (only on Xbox rn but will be on other things most likely) you just might get put with noobs. So that's not on them, that's because the game marked you as a noob level player. I main survivor as well, and I have no problem with people killing themself on hook, because it usually benefits me, the killers I play against are chill.
You know how before they implemented the DC penalty system, the old system simply kept track of how often one DC'd, and if they DC'd too frequently in a given span of time, they might get punished?
Something like that would be good. If a player dies on a hook very early in such a way that it's very likely that they deliberately killed themselves on hook as a way of ragequitting, keep note of that. If it happens too frequently in a given span of time, give 'em a temp ban.
fine, we will also punish you when you get a gen done, and a totem. Want the pallets punished when they are used and you don't like it? if it is in match functionality it should not be punished unless there was an exploit that the devs have found that people are using (try to get off and person yoinks you and you end up in perma sprint mode (exploit). You are being silly and sure people do this, if you want to punish this make it so that people can't get off the hooks by themselves AT ALL... Make it so there is NO way to do it perk or otherwise. You need to understand that you are calling for people to be punished for playing the game, not for using out of match functionality. There is a difference. one requires you to leave the match functionality behind and click a button (disconnect) which has been abused.
Also people who argue about DC penalties only want to DC without punishment yet their DC punishes the people in game equally. the first hook killing self argument falls flat when you look at it in the realm of what functionality they are using. stop being silly and wanting to punish people for using game mechanics as intended.
there was no system like that, it required the staff to 24/7 monitor people's accounts and there is not enough people to do that on behavior's staff. do you want your game breaking bugs fixed at all?
Yes there was. It's why the devs kept saying "Don't report disconnects" since there was a system that automatically kept track of that.
the system did keep track sure but it required people to monitor it and that never happened. I saw someone disconnect 10 times in ONE stream that was less than 5 hours long. this is why I report all dcs when there is no automated penalties. It never got used, monitored and people got upset about it, there was no action EVER taken from that.
This is absolutely ridiculous, yes it’s very annoying when a teammate kills themself on hook. But what about the other players who accidentally didn’t press struggle or those who need to die in order for their other teammate to get hatch..? You just can’t punish the single person who kills themself on hook by themself without punishing everyone else.
@Freki I agree that the self-unhook is a game mechanic available for everyone at any time, I haven't told once people should get punished for using it. But from your incoherent mess of a text I can confidently say you didn't get the point I was trying to make so let me break it down once again.
The person who hook-kills himself in the beginning of the game RUINS THE EXPERIENCE for the rest of survivors making it much harder for them to win. This care-free behavior at the moment is punished only by a measly depip which no one cares about because frankly ranking as a survivor is EXTREMELY easy to do.
If you honestly think every 2nd or 3rd game to play as trio vs a killer is something natural and expected - you should stop. This is a 4v1 asymmetrical game, a missing survivor is devastating for the rest of the survivors. If you read my previous posts (highly doubt you will), you would see how this problem can be solved.
Also, no need for human intervention to "monitor" this behavior as there are plenty of algorithms used by many game developers (guess it was common sense, clearly not).
The problem was that the threshold to punish someone was WAY too high, so it ended up not being enough of a disincentive to not DC. That's why it got switched to the current DC Penalty system.
Manually reporting DCs was bad because it would waste the time of people who read those unnecessary reports rather than reports that actually did warrant someone looking at them.
They have no way to differentiate between someone using the "leave match" button to someone literally pulling the plug. I sincerely doubt they could find a way to differentiate WHEN you try to ######### on first hook. Also again, what punishment are you going to GIVE them. A time out penalty for killing themselves on hook? ######### no. You wanna make people leave in droves? This is how you do it.
DBD is not LoL, it is not competitive like LoL, the matches last far less time, it is a FAR easier game with less mechanics, it doesn't need a "leaver penalty" for SUICIDING on hook. They already have a penalty for d/cs (which can be an actual problem), deal with it.
A time out penalty for excessively killing themselves on hook. Like, doing so at a rate where there is absolutely no justification.
you know this for a fact? or are you guessing because i've told you that people disconnected without worry of punishment with this "system" ? please share where you have found the information of the "thresholds". also it does not waste the time of someone, if can call attention to someone that dc's a great deal of time and they could then take action, but it was not being done so no one got banned etc. ALSO the dc penalty system has a lasting information with the dedicated server where as before there was no data to show why a dc happened because of the fact that the match was connected between the players. sure information ends up transmitted to the behavior server but it was not the information that was needed.
This was said by the devs a good while back, if memory serves correctly.
No? You can't force them to keep playing if they don't want to. And it's impossible to enforce anyway
i never heard the devs say anything more than "don't use the ticket system to report dc's" (which I stopped using but i kept reporting unsportsmanlike conduct rage quit). but it was never used, the information never touched, and that's worse than having a system that's hackable or punishing people for dc's that they have no control over.
Tell that to the Killers who have no way of leaving the match early without disconnecting.
Yea that's also a problem and the devs can easily fix by allowing killers to open the exit gate at any time
So the devs can fix the problem by giving the Killers the ability to prevent the Survivors from playing the game?
Can you verify that the information was never used?
lol i have seeing hook kills and the other 3 gotten out. AND NOT because the killer went easy on them. it's called rely on yourself not everyone else. I've gotten out as solo because I relied on myself and not others, sure it was out the hatch in a few cases but not always.
If the killer truly doesn't feel like playing that match yes it could be an option. do you have any suggestions?
the fact I consistantly saw a streamer disconnect many times a night, and nothing EVER happened to her what so ever and she continually bragged that she can dc without penalty.
So the Killer can make the Survivors depip at will?
Hence why devs said that the threshold was too high and why they changed the system.
The devs could in theory just have an auto safety pip if the killer uses this option
How will they keep track of this though? What will count? Only from first hook? Will second hook count? What if you miss a struggle button mash and #########? What if you try to kobe and fail and miss a struggle button mash? Does that count? What if a bug doesn't allow you to struggle? What if you just NEVER get saved? Will that count? How will they be able to differentiate?
If it's just person died on first hook X amount of times today that still doesn't mean anything. Sometimes you get ######### teammates game after game, who don't save you till struggle or don't even SAVE YOU at all. Again, HOW will they differentiate?
Killing yourself on hook is literally an option the game gives you, if a person doesn't want to play through that match they shouldn't be forced to. Which is what this will do.
So the Killer can prevent Survivors from having a chance to pip.
Put a timer (maybe 5 minutes?) on it and it's fine. Either the killer can open the gates or go into the basement where the entity will grab him and end the round.
In all honesty as someone who equally plays on both sides.I’d say that people have every right to say what they feel and we should respect everyone’s opinions.But to go on and say survivors should be punished.Is like ignoring the fact that half of the DBD killers intentionally go out of their way to ruin the game for others for childish like reasons.
If the Survivor is hooked within a certain amount of time after the trial has started, has spent less than a certain amount of time total on the hook, and dies in one hook, it would qualify. Give it a decent threshold so that the occasional misstep because of a missed button mash or something isn't liable to be punished.