If you only play one side, you probably shouldn't ask for changes in the other one
I feel like a lot of the arguments on this forum can be completely ignored or not happen in the first place if the OP plays both sides, in the red ranks at least.
You should experience what your opposition feels before instantly assuming anything or saying it's too easy for the other side without trying.
A very easy example is the NOED bad DS bad threads, but the truth is the game would be even more unfun without them.
If NOED didn't exist survivors would have no incentive do dull bones = quicker games, there's no reason for me to hold m1 for 14s on something that has 0 effect for me and my teammates in the match.
If DS didn't exist killers would just tunnel the injured survivor off the hook, because why would I hit someone 2 times and apply significantly less pressure off someone in their 1st rather than 2nd hook state.
I encourage everyone here to play both sides and get to red ranks, it'll give you an insight on the POV of some people you discuss on the daily with, and make you avoid making threads that would seem like bait at first glance.
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True.
Thank God I do play both sides, and have hit rank 1 with both sides (though depending on who you ask this in itself isn't a wholly difficult task). In which case I'll continue to say Rework both DS and NOED, horribly designed perks. @Everyone has my official both-sides-blessing to continue complaining about these two problem perks until they get changed.
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imo DS is fine, they just need to add ant-synergy with Unbreakable and Soul Guard. Make it so while DS is active, removes the ability to recover by yourself above 50% progress by any means.
NOED will be fine when soloQ gets closer to SWF levels of information. I'll still hate the perk but at least I'll be able to do all 5 totems before my teammates eventually do the final gen (and funnily enough the only gen they did all match).
again though both of these are my opinion and if the devs wanna rework both i wouldnt complain either :/
wait should probably respond to the op.
I completely agree. If you only play one side your opinion really shouldn't be taken into consideration in terms of balance. In terms of QOL changes and enjoyability, yes, just not balance.
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I play both sides.
Killer main.
DS is Fine.
NOED is fine.
None need changes.
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people dont want them removed just reworked so they do the intended purpose
no one wants ds to be removed people want it solidified as an anti tunneling perk
and noeds fine honestly it will only get you like one extra down anyway
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I agree with the sentiment of your post but there are so many flawed arguments in your logic. For starters people don't hate the concept of NOED or DS. Giving you a chance against a hard tunneler and giving you more time as killer sound like amazing options, but you are not seeing how poorly designed these "band aid fixes" are.
For starters the ability to snowball NOED and go from a 2 hook game to a 4k is boring, and it's even worse not getting hooked once, then going down thanks to NOED and getting camped and one hooked cause your team couldn't find the totem. The complaints are not unjustified and I can assure you many people would be down for a second objective that was actually fun and gave the killer more of a chance with their time management.
And DS is the epitome of abusable perks. It is SO strong you don't even need to have it. If one person brings DS the killer has to respect an invisible code of conduct and assume ALL survivors have it. A penalty that is NEVER applied to survivors as they are free to rush all gens as fast as possible. DS gives you a minute of being COMPLETELY invincible. This is why survivors with DS can safely hop on gens, go for risky saves and generally do whatever the hell they want, cause the second the killer gets close bam locker and you can't touch me. And if we get into sweaty SWF territory it gets even worse as they might bring the same skin to make it impossible to keep track of hooks.
I think you're the one lacking empathy and thus fail to see why many of these complaints are valid. Not because something sounds good in paper means it's working well or is a healthy addition to the game.
Edit: typo
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This. Both are fine, one has a fairly easy counter and the other rarely comes into play.
How you aren't trusted is beyond me ngl.
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Yeah so its fine if someone gets out of the game in less than a minute because there isn't any other reliable perk to prevent tunneling.
Moris and keys were officially said by peanits they're planning on making changes.
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Hardly, the perk needs restrictions so it can't be abused for aggressive plays that's the problem. Deactivating upon entering a locker, repairing a gen, cleansing a totem, or saving another survivor are practically mandatory changes that are necessary to make this perk more fair for both sides.
NOED has it's own problems but I think the solutions for NOED are less clear cut and obvious than they are for DS so it's kind of a "wait and see" until somebody in the community comes up with a good enough idea that can pick up some serious steam. Or the devs, whichever comes first. I think I heard someone say it should be based on how many hooks you got, each hook earns you a certain amount of time that the survivors are exposed or something. Or maybe it only affects certain survivors, say those survivors who have been two hooked. Not quite sure, but the central concept NOED should have some conditions that need to be fulfilled in order to reap it's benefits is what most people are thinking of right now. The killer shouldn't get instant downs for free, he / she needs to do at least something during the match to be rewarded those benefits.
The changes people have planned don't change DS as an anti-tunnel perk, if anything it secures it more tightly in its role as an anti-tunnel perk and makes it better at fulfilling that purpose. Alongside the deactivation conditions people have recommended the DS timer pause during chases, maybe the base timer is even extended, or the skillcheck is made to be less difficult. All of these changes are more than welcome as long as DS can no longer be used as an in-your-face strategy against the killer.
Although it is exciting to hear keys and moris are getting changes, I hadn't heard about that one. I feel like communication on these forums isn't as up to par as it could be, I mean seriously you expect me to dig and dive for every comment peanits makes on one thread every four or five pages c'mon...
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Oh, no.
I'm too aggressive.
I'm too sarcastic.
I'm a dick, but I'm not offensive.
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Who said you can't be aggresive when defending your point? To me you're almost always right, plus you're not a dick, or atleast very rarely. If you knew me before ######### went down you'd hate me, so ik who a dick is and you're not one.
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Thank you, but I'd honestly feel like I'd be on a leash.
I do my best to bring up valid points, while adding some sarcasm for comedy relief and simultaneously playing the dickhead in the conversation.
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i think most do play both sides i do i feel ds needs a change a little bit.
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Key, Mori, NOED, DS all have to be addressed.
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I play both sides, but if someone doesn't, it doesn't mean the other sides issues don't matter. Keys effect killer only players, while Moris effect survivors, for instance.
A person has the right to give an opinion. However, whether or not you take that as a relevant opinion is up to you. You should not be the arbiter of what is accepted and what is not. This gatekeeping tactic is a really weak one for any argument, tbh.
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this 100%
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Apparently if I play only one side, that mean I have no idea about anything on the other side, and because of that, i'm not allowed to have freedom of opinions? Even though you always go against the other side, and it's a good idea to learn them? I'm not saying that a person that plays only one side knows everything about the other side, but saying you can't have opinions through self-judgment?
So if I have an opinion of a movie, I can't actually have one because I have never made a movie before?
I doubt this is the vibe you're trying to go for, but the title sure as hell seems like Gatekeeping to the average internet person.
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If you never experienced the other side, you don't know how it feels, you just believe you know it. So your opinion is just flawed by your lack of experience.
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I feel this way too. I used to only really play survivors but now I play both equally. I'm rank 1 killer/survivor on PS4, devotion 5 and until you step back and look at both sides you begin to see what might need to be changed
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I agree with this
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I agree with both of you equally. Both put up good arguments why both perks are disliked and a good way to solve the issues.
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The truth that needed to be said
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Good. Because I play both and I expect you all not to call me biased towards the other side because I have opinions you dont like.
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Noed and DS do not need to be addressed.
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I see you are a man of culture
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Agree that an opinion can be had by all.
However....
Your movie analogy doesn't work.
The op would have had to have asked everyone to resevere comment until they have made a video game.
Playing the two sides of the same game isn't comparable to making a movie and watching one.
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DS is only game breaking for the super tryhard swf groups. if it's solo players or mediocre swf's I can just leave on the ground no problem and move on to the next victim.
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I totally agree, and add: the game is completely fine. Well, was, since the new hillbilly kinda takes all the fun of playing him away. I remember the good times, in 2017, where the game was totally fair, looping wasn't necessary for chases, and the game had no problem at all. Now, there's the broken rank system, it's hard to find matches as killer, but addressing the point: playing matches has become the best since the 2017 version of the game. If a person keeps crying for easy wins, she should just play the other side, and think of how it'd feel to have these changes made. That's all I'll say for now.
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Just like to clarify that the killer doesn't HAVE to respect anything. I don't run DS as a survivor and I laugh when killers tunnel and slug me, then don't pick me up because they are so scary of the possibility of getting a 5 second stun.
When I play killer, well first of all I go for the unhooker, not the one who just got off hook. That avoids both Borrowed Time and DS. But if for some reason I can't locate the unhooker and I do stumble on to the other person, I just knock them down and pick them up. If they have DS, I eat it and it's gone. Why be scared of it?
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100% agree here. You have to play both sides to have some perspective on how things are in this game. Sure you can still main one side or the other, but you have to have decent hours on the other side before you go off complaining about something being OP or too easy
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In terms of Noed, the point if it is to punish survivors who dont cleanse totems, but most of the time when people are hit by it, 4/5 totems have been cleansed & the last one is tucked in some corner somewhere.
So by doing totems the survivors force noed to spawn in that one nook & get punished anyway.
An idea I had a little while ago was to base it around how many totems (dull or otherwise) remain on the map when the gates are powered.
The killer gets 1-5 tokens (based on totems remaining when the gates are powered) determining how many basic hits the killer deals before noed vanishes.
Possible additional changes: noed isnt a hex & the exposed effect shows up to survivors as soon as noed activates.
Or even could make it that survivors could cleanse totems late game to remove tokens.
Just ideas
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While I understand your sentiment, I do disagree with the point you're trying to make.
Firstly, I do think that those who play Killer regularly have a greater understanding of the drawbacks of playing Killer. Naturally, you will most likely have a predisposition to request that Killers be stronger, and potentially, Survivors weaker.
Secondly, this is a game with two sides. Survivor & Killer. Both should have say on what is fair, underpowered or OP for both sides.
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Keys and moris are been looked at, as confirmed by Peanits.
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I see your point, but people still make DS/NOED bad threads even when playing both sides as they're controversial perks.
I myself still think DS is heavily overtuned and needs a timer reduction and more conditions applied to it. I play pretty much even as well. Also, a lot of 50/50 players and sometimes even killer mains think NOED needs adjustments, not just survivor mains.
I'm not denying though that these posts exist, ive seen plenty of people call for a highly unneeded DS/NOED nerf, just to discover that they don't play the other side.
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I'm not in red ranks on either side yet but I play a lot of kill your friends with my buds that are rank 1 and I've learned so much from killer and survivor perspective. I personally think DS and NOED don't need any changes made. They're perfectly fine the way they are.
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A survivor should be happy to see noed. It means they didn't have to deal with a different, potentially more oppressive perk while they're working on gens. Imo I think it's a waste of a perk slot. If you're a half decent killer you just won't be playing around the idea that the survivors are going to power the exits. You have to be unsure of your own skills to take noed.
DS on the other hand I think needs one small change. If you're in a chase and hop in a locker it should either deactivate, or not work if the killer grabs you from the locker. (Out of chase is different, in chase it's just abused in this way) I play both sides about equal but I consider myself a killer main because I have more fun with it. DS is a necessary perk and I wouldnt try to say otherwise, but to make a survivor invincible for a minute because of a red box is a little absurd.
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True and most killer players indeed play both sides.
I know of many survivors who never touch killer other than rituals though...
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"Deathslinger has no counterplay" is only said by people who have literally never played deathslinger. They'd likely play the killer and get looped for all eternity and miss almost all of their shots.
I don't personally like playing him, but I sure as hell don't mind vsing him over a spirit, GF, and plenty of other better killers that take less skill to use.
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I'm just a survivor main and I don't care for NOED or DS. I run what I want to run to make the game fun for me. Only other players ruin for me or... bull crap hit boxes.
I dont complain about NOED because I almost NEVER get hit by it because once I see how someone plays... I assume they have it and do bones... b iui t most of the time I do them anyway because I have inner strength .
I dont complain about ds... because I dont run it or go against it.
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Yeah this is pretty much what pisses me off, people would go against a good ghostface/ main and make a 5 paragraph thread on how he's OP, but if they try playing him and it isn't as easy as it looks to avoid being spotted by 4 people on high alert.
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I do play both sides, that's why a said "if". Stop trying to antagonize people for not having the same opinion.
I'm not allowed to feel for a person who broke their arm, so I should not feel bad for them, because I have never had a broken arm before?
Pay attention to what the post is saying before you blurt stuff out because it doesn't fall in line with your opinion.
I'm not trying to downplay your opinion, i'm just saying to you and the OP to stop saying others shouldn't have them.
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If people did that then we'd have like 100x less "nerf survivors" posts every hour.
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First of all, thank you for actually reading my comment and respecting it instead of getting mad at it because you don't agree with something.
Second, while I also thank you about pointing out the analogy I made not being good, I still think it's silly that most people in this post seem to come across as saying" if you play the other side once, you automatically know everything" and that there are an extremely small amount of people that only played one side and NEVER the other side (at least on the forums), but they make it out to be much more common than it actually is.
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Agreed! Whenever I see posts like that I want to say something so bad, but I'm nobody important and the community is so toxic, I just feel like my theories and ideas aren't worth it around here. :(
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Aww come on don't say that man. Sooner or later though you'll realize you can't respond to a good share of topics here. Some people are hard to reason with, if something clearly doesn't make sense like "Calm spirit is overpowered (because OP mains doc)" you probably shouldn't bother with a response because it's either someone deluded or again, someone who doesn't play both sides.
And you really don't have to be someone important to say something innovative so don't fret over it :)
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I agree on your base premise, but not about NOED or DS. The game would be much better without either of them.
They are bandaid fixes for core bad designs that need fixing. IE game speeds and hook spreading not being the most efficient way to win.
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I mean, you should feel entitled to ask for changes or at least express your dissatisfaction, but suggesting actual solutions is not helpful.
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I agree, but let me expound on your OP.
If you are only playing solo queue or as killer, you MUST play for an entire day on the public official DBD discord server in various SWF groups before you come on here bashing (or even requesting nerfs to) SWF. SWF players are a minority and toxic ones are a minority within that minority. If you play as survivor one day through that on the public discord, you will see that plain as day. No need to call for nerfs until you go on there and experience it every match.
If you are playing killer and ANYTHING is a problem for you, go play survivor for a day and see if that is problem in your matches. Like there's one thread complaining about the 99% of gates. Go play survivor all day and count on paper how many matches come down to a loss for the killer due to 99%ing the doors. You'll see that at most it's 1. So why would you call for a nerf on something that you encountered 1 time in a day full of research? Because killers have a habit of playing poorly and looking for something that needs to be nerfed or pointed at to explain their failures. They need to remember that the 1 common denominator in a day of killer play is them. When you come on here and ask for a nerf, you better have independently verified that it is indeed causes losses for killers across the board. Otherwise, look inward.
Survivors -- do not come on here screaming for nerfs unless you have encountered issues repeatedly and asked other survivors if they have any counters or tips to deal with the issues. There are some things that don't have counters (such as Spirit + Stridor) and rightfully should be called out, but coming on here saying that they need to nerf a killer because you lost to him a couple times is not the way to go.
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The problem is DS is a pro tunneling perk, I see a lot of killers just eat it or slug killers aren't scared by DS and noed in itself rewards bad gameplay as killer. If you're going to make DS an anti tunneling perk it needs to do something more than just stun the killer. it's not really a viable perk even though people say it's meta. I feel DS could be so much better if it actually punished tunneling more. And as for noed, my solution is make it token/hook based like devour, noed is the strongest end game perk for bad killers and good killers but the fact that you can go afk the whole game down someone and have it spiral into a 3 or 4k when it shouldn't tells me that it needs a rework to how it works
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A lot of well worded arguments in this thread
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"Rewards bad gameplay" is an invalid argument.
I play rank 1 killer and survivor, and when I'm pressuring these gens and 2 hooking the survivors are very rarely on totems, I joined the "NOED Rebellion" trend as a joke back then and I either didn't get to 5 gens done or NOED always activated, but I'd really rather have fun with a perk that will be there for the entire match than something like NOED or Adrenaline.
I feel like survivors only do totems most of the time when they "feel free" or confident that they're gonna win.
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