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Stop pretending that playing scummy is skillful
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Nothing's going to change, tunneling is so effective and easy. Getting tunneled can be oppressive, depending on the circumstances you may not be able to accomplish anything in the match other than being in a Chase and getting hooked. I know some disagree but I ultimately don't think it's a good experience for survivors in the game.
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Its not strategy its lame and easy way to win. You know most of players play to have fun and enjoy their time with their friends or with other players, and you are using that into your advantage and like your life depends on that win.
If you only can play that way no can can force you not sadly, But don't blame others if they call you sh*t words.
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Same goes for SWF, second chance perks, flashlights, etc..
Killers can play however they want since survivors don't hold back.
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Them being red ranks worry you? Ranks mean nothing when it comes to skill in this game. I'm rank 1 as killer and surivivor, and I'm not very good at either just decent I would say.
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So just because I can't hold a chase to the level of Otz, Tru3 or No0b3 means that I should just run the single most hated build, and perks that I myself don't want to run, just to deal with the fact that someone else doesn't want to play the same way that I do when I'm playing killer? Is that what you're saying?
When I get camped or tunnelled consistently, I don't want to "improve" my game, I want to switch it. I don't want to play any more because I am miserable. And this is the mindset of the average player here. If I'm not happy, then I'm going to move on and that's a shame because I really like Dead by Daylight.
You call yourself a voice of REASON but that statement is anything but. "Just get better at the game" well I'm sorry, but that's not exactly how that works. There's a line between needing improvement, and just being unable to do anything. Currently I feel helpless. I'm stuck in purple ranks because I'm good enough to safety pip, but my team are all brown ranks and high red killers. When I switch to killer, I've accidentally dropped to brown through neglect and what do I get? REDS! REDS EVERYWHERE! Now, some of them I can kill, but when I'm put against a full SWF red squad with two flashlights on a killer I'm playing for the first time, then I just don't see a point in playing at all. That mindset to me is bred from the idea of "Play however you want." and it will drive away more players than it will keep.
This is still a GAME and they are designed for FUN, not data entry. I personally couldn't care if all 4 survivors escape as long as I had a good time chasing them down, and it's why I play Pig and Legion. Somewhere along the way, seeing those little skulls on the endscreen for all of 30 seconds became more important than the 15 minutes that happened beforehand and it's just despicable.
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The thing is while I tend to agree that yes scummy plays (IMO) isn't anything that anyone should be gloating about, they are mostly built-in mechanics that are a part of the game.
It’s like when survivors claim they “juked” all game but the killer never once saw them.
There are obviously outdated mechanics like bloodlust that should be updated or removed, since they are only contributing to the tunneling that you see because more loops have become unsafe.
Post edited by Johnny_XMan on1 -
Sometimes playing scummy is the only option.
Either that or give up, and I know which one I'd rather do.
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Survivors don't say gg most of the time even if they all get 3 hooks, so what's it matter?
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You didn't pay for my game so piss off with trying to tell me how to play. I play to win, I have fun when I win so I do what it takes to win, which is forcing people like you to make bad decisions. You wanna wait until the hooked guy is 10s away from second state so you can finish that gen? No problem, I'm gonna go back to the hook and make sure he goes second state before I let you unhook him, then I'm going to make you trade so I get YOU on the hook too, hope that gen was worth it because I just got 3 hooks worth of value out of it.
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Though I do agree that some tactics can feel really cheap, I don't think the game as it is really allows killers to play "fair" and win. There just isn't enough time to down and hook survivors one by one. If you do so, there will always be 3 other players on gens and the game can quickly spiral to an end unless you play a killer that can cut chases short incredibility (and such killers are often complained about as being "not fun"). If not then survivors just run from pallet to pallet. Though leaving chase is smartest idea, you still need hooks so abandoning multiple chases can become a bad one and the RNG nature of maps/pallets becomes pretty apparent. If one side gets the more favorable map spawn, the better gamer has already been decided before anyone has even done anything.
I have no idea how they could balance it so fair play would actually be viable for both sides, but we aren't exactly there yet.
Personally, though I can see how things can be boring and do agree on some of them, I'm still going to play the game with the mindset of "this is how it is" and not " this is how I want it to be".
Otherwise, I'd be burned out by always having to follow rule sets that no one else follows. With meta perks being.. well meta. I'd pretty much be saying:
"I'm morally obligated to lose"
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Then stop him from doing so. As many have said, just stop unhooking. Its actually all in the survivors control to play around it. But the first step is to realise thats whats going on.
And if you think those people are being serious then either they are delusional or you are. Most people that talk like that are trolls. They are there to cause frustration and make you angry. I a friend of mine will go out of his way to say whatever he thinks will piss the survivors/killers off. A killer getting stomped "Close game"/"gg ez". Some people will go out of their way to be dicks because thats what they find funny. And fun is subjective. I have given up trying to make him stop because it hasn't worked the last 10 years I have known him. You can't control what people find fun or how they play. You can only control how you react to it or how you play.
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Don't play a pvp game. Don't play COD, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, WOW, GTA 5 Online or any other game if you don't like to lose. All you're doing is showing bad sportsmanship because you lost.
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You chose to play a PVP game against real people then tell people that they have to play a specific way or you don't like it so you can play how YOU want. Saying you have NO chance at winning was false and I was just pointing it out. There is always a way to win. You just might not like it. Efficiency in a PVP game is mandatory.
Why don't survivors do totems but still complain about NOED? It's efficient to do gens and not worry about a perk. Why waste a minute and 15 seconds when you can hope its not there and shame someone for playing a game because YOU don't want to change your playstyle or play less optimal? It's a 2-way street.
No one wants to feel like they're being run over. It's why people optimize how they play a game. It's how we get better. Me telling you to stop what you're doing or don't run this perk because it makes it harder on me doesn't improve my skill. It makes it easier on me. That's not getting better, that's being complacent and shaming someone into doing what I want so I don't have to improve.
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Lol. You must *never* lose, right? "Hurr durr, just win the game! It's easy!"
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More often than not, Unbreakable does nothing. The killer just picks you up straight away even if there's a gen being rushed near him.
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Sorry to break the news to you but I'm not a scrub. I can run a killer for 3+ gens with a competent team. Sometimes you don't get a competent, and also get a scummy killer. I'm less mad about the fact that the killer played scummy, I'm mad that he thinks he played skilfully. "GG EZ" when he cheated out tons of chases and hook states with NOED or a mori. Anyone can *say* it was pure skill under those conditions, it just wouldn't be true. So thanks for the dictionary, Einstein, but scrubs have nothing to do with this discussion.
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That's assuming all of your survivors have all of the meta perks and fit exactly the situation you're in. Sometimes DS is useless. Sometimes Unbreakable is useless. Sometimes Dead Hard refuses to come out. You can't just chalk this up to "get better" when all a killer does is camp and tunnel. A 3v1 is not a winnable situation for survivors if 3-4 gens haven't been done already. So all these killers are doing is tunneling for the 3v1 and then getting an easy game.
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I have 3 rules as killer:
1. If you unhook and im right next to it, I got for the unhooker. However, if i cannot see the unhooker, I will downcand slug the unhookie, and whether or not there's an obsession, determines my hook or slug.
2. If I'm in chase with a survivor who I know is better than me, I will break the chase at first sight of another individual, regardless of how many times they've been hooked. This sometimes leads to a tunnel death if a survivor makes the decision to be where i am and i see them.
3. If I see an OoO I will immediately assume SWF and play as harsh as possible no matter how scummy it may be due to how many toxic 4 mans ive run into. Im not saying "boohoo swf bad" im saying ive ran into too many toxic groups to just "play normally" against a suspected SWF. I go hard, and if that means tunnel killing ANYONE, or slugging rapidly and repeatedly, so be it.
Side note: stop looping killers around hooks. They're not camping, youre making the decision to keep them there. It just creates a safe chase for them and a jook timer drainer, ultimately keeping killer pressure.
Survivors who play "optimally" are told that its fine they do so, so why is it bad and scummy for a killer to do so? Double standards, man.
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Exactly. That comes back to my original post. The killers play extremely lame then claim "you're just bad and I'm just good". It's not that they played that way that pisses me off, it's that they claim it was pure skill. Then they say that we have all these crutch perks and SWF to deal with their 'playstyle', but what if we don't have that? It's an assumption of the highest order. These killers, who I thought most had valid opinions since I'm a former killer main, turned out to have zero argument besides "get good, don't lose." I also expected survivor mains to come out in droves to support me, but they either like disagreeing regardless of the poster's point, or they're just on an off day. Either way, I expected more people to get my point, like you did.
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If you haven't completed 3 gens in 2 minutes with someone being face camped, you have other issues to look at. I've been in matches where my friend was face camped and was repeatedly tunneled. We still got out but he barely made it. I've been in the same scenario but chalking it up and saying we lost due to scummy plays instead of him playing better and us doing gens instead of running around is also bad. We have plenty of ways to loop a killer. Hell, you can throw pallets early and still outlive the gens in most maps with no looping.
The killer has to outplay to win. Killer can't just sit there and win. You have so many secondary perks to bring you back in the game and do it TWICE. If you STILL can't survive past 3 gens, you really should learn your tiles.
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If they have looped the killer well and had fun with it, they'll say GG. If they did badly in a chase or 2 and their teammates were allergic to gens, they won't say GG because it wasn't one for them.
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So you'd rather survivors unhook as soon as you leave? Are you sure you wouldn't come straight back to hook either way, or are you only presenting half an argument?
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Finally some constructive criticism instead of troglodytes telling me to get better or how they spent their money on their game. The devs are the cause for most of not all of the problems of this game, because they can't balance for #########. If the game was balanced people would still play scummy, but it wouldn't be widespread like this. Currently, killers can choose between tunneling or losing, and that should never have been the case.
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Lolol I got the game for free from ps plus and I won't care if people think my playstyle is scummy (please be nice to me killer, wah wah) lol get tilted, give me a 4k and I'll keep playing untik I switch to another game. Quit crying over pixels lil kids
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I mentioned nothing of survivors being optimal. You just assumed I like survivors being as much as a power role as they are, which I don't. You're list of reasons were justified and definitely not tunneling, especially if half the team are immersed gamers. I just hate when killers play like that, yet claim it was all skill. I play killer, realize when I'm tunneling, and would never boast about it, simply do the necessary evil *when I'm losing*. There's no justification for killers hardcore slugging or tunneling when 1 or no gens have been done, or when the match is in their favor already.
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playing skillful or scummy there fine line there because of the time killer got to do thing before all gen are done with most killer you may have to play scummy sad but true.
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There's more to it than that. Remaining pallets mean little when they're on the other side of the map and you're in a dead zone. Dead zones are created when a killer is tunnel vision on you, probably because they have NOED or something to save them later on. Usually when most of the pallets have been used, too many gens have been done anyway, but not always. Potato teammates allow killers to capitalize on dead zones, and the game is lost. Because of the MMR system being implemented so damn late into this game's lifespan, potato teammates are common. And sometimes you're not SWF and have no idea how hardcore a killer is camping or tunneling, so you can't just know to hardcore gen rush. I can do gens, I can loop good, but I can't beat chance matchups.
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Hey tunneling works same as gen rushing killer focus on fast and secure hooks. But also killers can get more punish for it. If you wan't killers to stop doing that well maybe when you gen rush them simply stop t-baging at gate and clicking for tilt reaction since tunneling and camping and slugging works against swf since they really wan't to be alturistic. It is not scumy since it is fair tactic...
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You always skip a pallet, throw a pallet. That's basic knowledge. It's to keep from doing that exact scenario and to help your teammates later. You also have t-walls. Time is always on the survivors side but its a luxury for killer. You waste enough it and yes, you might get caught and die but everyone else will live. Do it enough and killers will stop tunneling after 1k games.
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Are you invested in the games that you play at all? "Crying over pixels" is a sad excuse for an argument. If you think like that, you probably shouldn't be playing video games. Your time would be better spent on your favorite pastime which appears to be cyberbullying.
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We Can agree there, friend. Sorry for misunderstanding ya. Appreciate you for being mature and explaining reasoning rather than being an ######### 😂
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You assumed that I play toxic as a survivor. You were wrong. Stop hardcore assuming and maybe you'll see the other person's point for once.
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I didn't assumed anything. I said from general expiriance. Many killer gets frustrated from those kind of surv and they vent of normal group if he gets against them. The thing is still the same as long as those players do that kind of thing they will simply stick to those tactics...
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I don't ever remember saying 'i don't like to lose', I perfer to face a good Pyramid Head who get us 4K'ed with good and fair way, than 3 man escaping against camping Bubba, Because even if we lose it still was fun and better match for everyone. Actually if i dont like to lose as you claimed i am i will play this scummy way -that you are defending rn and start defend it with you- to make sure i win most of them games easily and to be called 'skillful' player.
Toxic players exist every game, and it will never end. But i don't get why people defend this kind of ppl and make excuses for them. If i know every match i play is gonna be with sweaty toxic players i would be happy to stop playing pvp 100%.
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As the old saying goes, don't hate the playa... hate the game. This is a competitive, PVP game. Play to win. There are trade offs and weaknesses for every behavior. Don't get salty. Just adapt.
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I don't get it.... This is a game where the goal is either to survive or kill people....
Kill by any means necessary or survive by any means necessary... Why do people say "killers play scummy" when the goal is to kill...
Is it possible to kill people "nicely" on a meat hook?
As a survivor I rarely get tunneled or camped. Because I don't try to annoy the killer, I avoid them.
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It's a pvp game. Player VS Player. If the killer decides to remove you from the game to get instant pressure, he is allowed. They changed Bubba so he cannot do it anymore. 12 hook games is pretty much impossible if survivors stay on gens. Both sides want to win. Some killers are terrible at t-walls and when a survivor learns this, they go back to them as soon as the window goes unblocked. That's scummy. Using a killer's weakness to win knowing they can't do anything about it while in-game.
We should only allow 1 window loop per 10 minutes, otherwise that survivor is bad and scummy for abusing something. It starts getting a little annoying when its normal gameplay but your basic skillset gets called, "Scummy". Survivors shouldn't use ANY second chance perks. It removes the SKILL of the killer by granting a free escape with no real counterplay. If they do, it's scummy and you're bad for using it.
If anyone does ANYTHING that prevents a 4-Man escape or a 4-Man sacrifice, you're playing scummy. Your version of FUN is not FUN to others. If you cannot grasp that in a PVP game, you REALLY shouldn't be playing against other people.
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You understand it.
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I agree. I've been mori spammed by people who were mad from a previous match. Did I cuss them out or berate them? No. I asked if I did something and they came out swinging before realizing I wasn't mad. They told me what happened and I told them its all good. ######### happens and I told them to go face camp then mori them for me if they see that person again. Respect is earned, not given.
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Ok lets take it to survivor side, If there is 2 infinite windows and every time when survivors get hit go to those and heal there knowing killer can never do anything to them there. would you call this as 'strategy'? If 4 blendettes hiding all the game and it take them forever to touch a gen and match lasts 40 min would you call this 'strategy'? Imagine if you only play these two games as killer all the time. ANYTHING to survive you would say i guess? For me i wouldn't fake a smile they are scummy to face and i will never touch killer role again in my life. even if i somehow 4k'ed them it is at the end not fun not only mine but for everybody version of fun.
And btw i know killers have to tunnel or camp at some point on a match if it needed. But with 5 gens left with ruin still exist? how would someone call this strategy?
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There lies the issue with the infinite. Its an infinite and it was patched out because it was UNFAIR. You had 0 ways to win. Even if you get camped, you can get unhooked and still escape using pallets and windows. You have a chance to use YOUR skills at pallets, windows and tiles to outplay the killer.
Also, I've been in games with Blendettes who have done this. I record some of my gameplay and upload them to my YouTube Channel. I do my job as killer and look for them. If they truly are hiding, I will find them after some time and I'll face camp them. They do gens, good. The game has started.
If not, I'll continue to kill them 1 at a time until I slug the 3rd and look for the 4th. Either she'll bleed out and I don't find the last survivor and she gets hatch or killed by the EGT or I catch her and slug both for hurting my feelings. There is always a way to win. Survivors who stealth all game are strategies also.
Out of sight, out of mind, as they say. From what you was implying, was abusing an infinite and having survivors do nothing all game to just ruin my match are different from trying to WIN by taking survivors out quickly and securing what I've caught by amorous survivors wanting that juicy 1500 points for an unhook. One is malicious and the other is just normal gameplay. Anything else?
Mini Note: If the killer is bodyblocking me in the corner of something so I can't escape with no gens done, yeah, that's scummy. I have no real way to run away or do anything but that's called, "Taking the game hostage" and it's bannable because you have NO way to do ANYTHING. Hope that helps.
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Right to every single word!
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You obviously didn't read any of what i linked or showed. By definition you are a scrub.
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Ever heard of mutual respect?
I don't camp or tunnel, teabag, flashlight at pallets or any if that stuff because I have a mutual respect for the survivors and killers I go up against.
Not hard to understand. It's not WHEN I die, it's HOW I die. You do you, but don't be upset when I call you out on your trash behaviour.
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Hello again. Im not asking how to beat these kind of teams, im asking "Was it fun?" would you spend your free time against this kind of teams? I know i don't same to survivors who face tunnelers every match.
About infinite i could say the same as you, (its NOT 0 chance to win). because the window will be blocked after survivor vaulting it 3 times, or i could tell you use bamboozle, and its your fault not using this perk to counter it? No. that thing was broken and can be abused thats why it got removed thank god same goes with tunnling its broken thing that being abused by killers. and IT IS unfair to get down after your feet bearly touched the floor from the hook.
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I face teams like that all the time. You said "Infinite". An Infinite was something you could not stop. Saying to use Bamboozle against an infinite would not be an Infinite then. It would just be a normal loop so I'm not understanding your defense. As for my fun, I enjoy trying to take everyone out as efficiently possible. I've also been the one tunneled all match. I've gotten plenty of videos of that too but you never hear me complaining because I enjoy the chase.
My fun is being attacked and trying to outplay the killer and being the center of attention but as killer, my fun is destroying teams as fast as possible to show my skill. It's why I'm excited about the new MMR. Hell, I got crushed by 4 Rank 1 SWFs literally 40 minutes ago while I played Trapper that I rarely play as on the Swamp.
I took a pounding, got 1 kill and guess what? I got called names and best part? I didn't even tunnel or camp. I caught someone in my trap at end game and refused to let anyone grab him after they tried making my life hell by disarming my traps then repeatedly vault a pallet then teabag when I went near. Did I have fun? No. Did I cuss them out? No. I told them gg as they berated me for killing 1 person. It's a game. I got outplayed.
Seeing people lose their ######### on the forums daily over a match because it wasn't a 4-Man Escape or Kill needs to learn a valuable lesson. This is a PVP game. You will not win every match. Their fun was not fun for me but I took it because I follow what I preach.
Anything else? Also, there is a reason why I ALWAYS run BT for my teammates. I don't use it for unsafe unhooks. I use it to save them from killer's who need to learn that just because you want to win doesn't mean I'm gonna give you an easy match. Welcome to PVP. I'm gonna do my best as a survivor to wreck you and make sure you NEVER forget my name or disrespect it in-game or those ankles and them saves will be mine.
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I've made my points.
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You said it yourself sometimes what survivors consider scummy tactics sometimes are the most viable tactics for the killer. Granted I don't agree with face camping unless it's at endgame or your camping a toxic survivor. But you're not even mentioning the many "scummy" tactics survivors use. The game isn't meant to be played by everyone to please you people can play how they want with different play styles or tactics. You can't come on here whining about it telling people what to do. Sadly you aren't going to enjoy every match but that's how dbd is. An unbalanced mess. Hopefully the new match making does something positive.
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As killer you can NEVER satisfy the survivor, nor should you.
If I don't tunnel the flashlight clicker, im a killer that doesn't engage, if I chase down the clicker and get them outta the game, I tunneled . Your strategy coming into the game was to have someone "supposedly" good get chased while everyone else gen rushes. And when they get downed get upset ANY DAMN WAY.
I can't run, ruin, corrupt, Franklin's, devour, no ed, etc cause then I'm a crappy killer, if I don't run perks at all, then I tunneled or slugged. Soooo
No matter what, if I win, im hearing toxic chatter.
So imma play the game I bought in the way that satisfies me. It's up to the developers to satisfy you.
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