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New players should absolutely NOT be matched with Vets. New player base will be kill..
MMR be damned.
If you have less than one hundred hours in this game, this system should NEVER match you against people with thousands of hours. There needs to be a gently sloping scale of increasing difficulty and gradually increasing upper limit to what ratings you are matched with depending on your performance. This system seems to just drop you in the ring with Muhammad Ali "to see how well you perform." Wow amazing! You got destroyed!
This game is already very unfriendly towards newcomers. If this continues, I can only forsee a great drop-off in new player retention. People don't play videogames to get frustrated (sane people anyways).
I've also noticed that the system seems to think that having one high rank player in a lobby will balance things out against a good killer. I'm sorry but one person cannot carry an entire team in a game like this. A decent killer will just focus on the weak links. One or two dead without gens completed is almost a guaranteed win for the killer, and chances are, the high rank is going to find the hatch. The only people that suffer in this arrangement are the low ranks.
(I also really want to know how these matchups are determined; is it seriously just the average rating of four survivors vs the rating of the killer?? If so, that's incredibly myopic and negligent!!)
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I can say on PS4 for sure, the new MMR is complete garbage. Survivor matches I get baby killers who can barely keep up in a chase or stop a loop. But playing as Killer I get survivors who slam me into the ground so hard. This matchmaking system just won't let anyone have a match at their own level it seems, and new players are feeling it worse than before the change.
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I played bunch of games with rank 15-20 killers with 1 tier 1 perk. Easy mode. They got OBLITERATED. Survivors were all skilled.
Devs, do you think those players will continue to play killer?
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That's not how its going to be forever. Imagine in the old system if the entire player base got reset to Rank 20. Things would be pretty similar to how they are right now. That's basically what's happened. But just like in that scenario, if we give it enough time, the really good players will start to build up a higher MMR score and things like that will stop happening so often. It's been out for barely two days. Give it some time.
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I feel like they just need to hand this game over to some devs/company that will extend the life of the game as much as possible. It seems like the devs keep losing at a lot of opportunities by making very flawed decisions in the longevity of this game.
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After a month, MMR will have settled down and you won't have to worry about that.
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"MMR tracking skill, not ranks."
This guy literally had his first few minutes on this game and he played against 3k hours survivors.
Gimme more skill dbd!!!
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I like how people are modeling this as a result of the new system. I as a killer found myself playing almost exclusively against red rank survivors for as long as I can remember.
In the last few weeks, I remember a game against 3 red 1 blue with my level 1 clown at rank 10. I managed 3 hooks, no kills all while being clicked and tea bagged for most of the match.
With this new system I've played 2 matches so far. 1 was a mix of red green yellow where they let each other die on first hook.
The second I let them complete the gens and escape after completing my daily with spirit all 4 were green. So while I am currently getting matched against less experienced people, the matches don't feel completely out of my ability like they normally did pre mmr rollout. Only time will tell as more matches are done.
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What I don't understand is
Devs explicitly stated in their Q&A the following
"Anyone who has been playing regularly in that time will already have a loosely calibrated skill rating to start with, which will be refined with each game they play now that the system is live. "
Now, I played at least 4 days a week, without exceptions, in the past 2 months (not to mention the time before that), always rank 1 as survivor and as killer (not this season as survivor, since I barely played it due to queue times - but that's only 2 weeks, not 2 months), and even if you want to think that I'm there at that rank just because "I play a lot", how is it possible that I only face killers that barely know how to play?
I have video proof of that if needed, but I think a lot of us have similar stories to tell.
I have a theory, and that is: since queue times was taking so long (especially when playing survivor) they decided to try and match correctly only in the first couple of minutes, after that time whatever happens happens. I get it, it's better to play with a slight imbalance than to not play at all, but this is ridiculous, plus I'm absolutely sure the killer I've faced were absolutely unimpressed - if they need to face this kind of opponents I don't see how they can stick to try and be killers.
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Devs/MMR sheeple will defend this saying "Rank means nOthing!!!" and "give it a feW matches it wiLl work eventually!!!!!!!"
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Except it should never allow this. In what world is it okay for new people who don't know how the game works to go against people with thousands of hours??
And supposedly this MMR system has been collecting data for months now. *Months.* Shouldn't it be calibrated already? Even if it's not, the system is clearly, inherently flawed if it does not take something like playtime into account when matching you with people. And what's with the insane disparity between matches? One game survivors are potatoes and the next is seal team six. Why isn't there a gradual increase in difficulty the better you do?
I digress, but my main problem is that this system is clearly f***ing over new people by putting them in the pool with the rest of us and that's not okay. The system is flawed.
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Ah that's a relief to hear...
The big spread in skill level on survivor teams is still a big issue though.
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it's hot garbage and putting it on the players to trudge through it for a month, especially new players is just irresponsible and lazy.
So I basically have to participate in a series of unfun games where I don't learn anything and get scrap rewards for the sake of a terrible match making system?
Just sounds like this game just hates new players.
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We all have had times where the game isn't fun. Watch videos, practice in KYFs and just learn your tiles. When I started DBD when it first came to PS4, I learned how to play against nonstop face campers with no chance of rescue and BT wasn't on PS4 yet.
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That's fine that 'you're' willing to put up with it, but don't expect other people to.
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Well, they are.
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Yeah, I don't get their mentality. Why would I play a game that isn't fun? The whole point of playing a video game is to have fun, even if that fun takes the form of PvP and beating enemies in a match.
But watch videos if the game isn't fun? If I wanted to watch videos, I wouldn't have launched DbD to play it in the first place. I would be watching videos. Play KYF? Okay, sure. Oh, but anyone I've ever had try the game walked away from it and said: Hell no.
Know why I've played Overwatch for the four years and three months since its launch day? Because it is fun. Same with almost 15 years of WoW. Or all the repeat play throughs of Borderlands 2.
It makes no sense to me to say: Well, this game isn't fun. Let me fire it up and watch some videos while it's going. I don't know about other gamers, but if a game isn't fun, it's collecting dust, likely getting uninstalled, and I'm going to go play a game that is fun and spend my money on that game studio. 🤷♂️
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Odd almost every match ive played except 3 or 4. Have been my rank or close not includeing the swf
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Who's 'they' anyway? Last I checked if I wasn't having fun in a game I just stopped playing it. If you're in 20-30 matches against pros and you're getting your face put into the dirt by Zeus carrying an Ancient tier perk. Odds are that you're probably just going to stop playing because you're learning nothing.
I shouldn't have to watch a video to learn the game at a decent pace, I should just be able to play the game like it was before this terrible patch.
They're just lucky I played for more than 2 hours before this patch came out so i can't refund it into the abyss.
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You do you. I'll still be here loopin' killers like I have for years.
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I mean yeah, that's literally what I said to you with my earlier reply.
Voicing my frustration with a game I paid for that was good right before an update that made it worse is pretty valid, and I think many new players would have the same experience.
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Therein lies the problem. New people who have no idea how to counter loops have to put up with you. Fortunately the devs have appeared to see the light and this will be changed.
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I learned from YouTube videos. They can do the same. That's how many learn the tiles.
Fair enough. Thank you for being civil. Once everyone's MMR settles, new players won't even see a skilled player for months. Got to give it time. I learned from YouTube videos on how to loop and play killer. After awhile, I adopted my own play style. YouTube tutorials like PainReliever are your best friend. He's good with looping videos and tile management for killers.
Edit: I said Painkiller xD wrong name
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I completely disagree, if you have to watch videos to play a game effectively, the developer has failed to teach you the basics.
Besides I'm a terrible visual learner, I do better repetitively, and not having fun is not an option.
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They also have a tutorial. If you don't understand the game after and refuse to watch a video then I'm not sure what you want? Get face camped by a new killer until you get to a better killer that just destroys you? Tutorials are there to help. They teach you the basics but online tutorials teach you advanced ways to play.
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Hours played should be accounted for within the MMR. Why it isn't I have no idea.
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Not what I meant by the basics, you're talking about 3rd party youtube videos that teach you meta tactics that the game would otherwise not teach you.
Players should be matched up with players that match their level, they failed at that, but if they're not going to forcibly make an effort to correct it, but instead force that on the player, then they have failed.
I don't see how that's a complicated assessment.
Generally speaking when making a game, when you want to attract players you don't make it harder on them to adjust to the game, you make it relatively easier.
In no way am I saying that players should be hand held till eternity. But you're making it seem as though putting a novice against a heavy weight champion is going to yield positive results.
In actuality, all it does is create frustration.
You mention youtube video guides, but how many NEW players since the update are checking them out and not just checking out of the game because it's not fun?
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But how will they differentiate between hours as Freddy vs 30 minutes as Clown?
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I love it how the devs say the rank does not matter, but it's always the rank 12-20 players who prove themselves beginners in the game comapred to their friends in the team who may be closer to rank 1 and perform well in that match.
I have been paired against beginne survivors for the most part for all the time since the new Matchmaking took place and as a killer, I have been able to end matches every single time before they even began. It's absolutely boring and I feel disgusted. I am not even using any dirty tricks or playing tryhard, it's just that these players are not skilled enough to go against me, simple.
I used to get great matches against rank 1-5 players who understood the game before the new matchmaking took place, but now it's to a point where I no longer find joy playing a killer.
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Many new players come due to watching someone play DBD on Twitch or YouTube. It's how I learned about it originally and why I chose to play this game. I'm starting to get a grasp about what you mean now. As I said before, MMR is a healthier way of doing matchmaking in the long run. Yes, the first 2-3 weeks will suck but afterwards, everything will go back to normal and the newer players coming in will get the same new killers compared to what we use to have.
It'll smooth over but it's better than getting rank 1's all the time like the old matchmaking did and had good veterans derank for easy lobbies against new players then proceed to make fun of them on video as content. You might not see the sunshine behind the clouds yet but once it's gone, it'll be much better and won't be easily abused like the previous matchmaking was.
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That's much ado about nothing, the whole point of a video game is to have fun. If you're not then it simply stops, people like me are not going to stick around for the long run because it's not worth it, and a major waste of the money I initially paid for.
So basically I have to wait Weeks to a month before I can actually play the game I paid for, in it's intended state, and that doesn't sound like a rip off to you? Especially when it was in my own opinion, 'fine' before the update?
It literally put my opinion from Good to bad in less than a week over a singular update.
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Fun is subjective. What might be fun for you might be unfun to another. I wish you the best.
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Which is exactly why this thread started was because you were basically shadowing your experience over mine even though you didn't experience 'this' as a new player.
What could you possibly know of this in this instance?
This game is far more developed than it was before, and all it took was a singular update.
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I was face camped 9/10 matches when I first started DBD. Before looping was a thing and everyone threw pallets down and ran to the next one. I'm sorry that you have to play a few matches until you get a game near your skill level. As least after a few games, it'll start to even out. Better than how I learned initially. They didn't even have tutorials or a training mode. You got thrown in a match and tried to stay alive.
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And I'm saying they should just scrap this stupid idea and test it first before putting it out there. "just deal with it" is not good enough, so you do you man.
I literally put out the staple reason why new players would leave a game and you dismissed it.
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People won't leave that easily. If they do then it's on them. No one plays a game and wins every time. If so, it would get stale. I started with some of the worst ways to experience this game and after 4 years, I'm still here through all the ups and downs of this game. If you leave that quick then good luck on your future game endeavors. Not everyone quits because they begin a match and get stomped. Otherwise, no one would play COD or any other game that is pvp.
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Dude, your entire argument is "just deal with it."
Well guess what? New people who aren't invested in this game aren't going to. They're going to quit. A lot of my friends started quiting when they started getting non-stop frustrating matches against killers they couldn't deal with. Now they can experience that immediately so they can quit 5 games in and not waste their life.
There is a real problem here, and you being dismissive about the issue is counter-productive. It's the game's fault that people aren't being matched correctly, not the player's, and they shouldn't be punished for that.
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You know you can also create a new account then if you want to ruin games from noobs.
This wont happen with mmr because the game see that you are an experienced player.
So mmr fix the problem with smurfs
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It's pretty clear that this point that BHVR has failed with the implementation of this new mmr (irrespective of what its actually supposed to be doing).
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I've said my thoughts on the matter. Also, the amount of times people post how the game is gonna die every month from a new change over the past 2 years and the game seems to actually grow instead makes it really hard for me to be indifferent to these type of posts. We've all had different starts in DBD. There are multiple ways to learn and get better.
If you don't want or care then why reply to me? You are fixated on MMR to be removed. It doesn't matter if it gets tweaked to help, I'm sure the posts will continue for the next month before people stop caring and go back to yelling about tunneling, camping and DS. It's a discussion. I said why it doesn't hurt the game. You said why it does. That's it.
It won't change my perception since I've played for years and never went against "new" killers. I got face camped. I was never mad. Then looping was created on YouTube and I practiced after watching and got better. If the only thing that makes your gaming experience the very best is going against someone who swings at the air a lot, runs into a wall or just face camps you then yes. It'll be terrible for 2 weeks to a month.
Otherwise, not everyone thinks the same way about this game. We all have our own opinions on what causes what to occur. If you keep thinking new players will die one time and just quit, they can refund it.
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You can do that now with literally zero effort BECAUSE of the new MMR lol.
How many people are going to go through all of that effort though? You also have zero perks and items to work with. MMR can help with this on paper, but the system is currently flawed.
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Remember the streamers that use to make a living off of deranking and bullying new killers lol. They would have hated MMR lol.
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If I am right after reading the article many, MANY times this is how it works are is suppose to work:
On killer side if you try a new killer you never played before or are not familiar with you are put against survivors of the same level. You get survivors who are new to the survivor they picked or are not familiar with.
On the survivor side you pick a new survivor you never used and get put against a player using a killer they are new with.
The problem I see here is they are ignore the rank system because they say it is broken but that is a mistake. If anything put the rank system into consideration. The ranking system at very least tells us something. It tells us that a Rank 1 has played enough to know the game well and whether they pick a NEW killer or survivor they still know how to chase and loop. They may not know exactly how to use the said new to them killer or survivor but they know the game.
Now the Rank 1 player picks Oni for the first time and now the new system says oh well he does not know how to use them we should team him with survivors that are new but that is an issue. Yes it is gonna pull New survivors who are also inexperienced with their character but the player is gonna be maybe Rank 18 or 20 and not just new to the survivor but the ENTIRE game.
I hope that what I am saying makes sense because I cannot think of another way to explain it but I will try to simplify it more. A person use a new killer matched to 4 people playing new survivors may not be equal because said killer may have 1000 hours playtime where those 4 survivors may have just bought the game today and vice versa.
I think they should not only use the new system but put into consideration the ranks a bit too. I still have hope but currently after many games I am still have very unbalanced games. Good luck to you all and may the odd be ever in your favor! Live long and Prosper! Nano Nano! lol
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Based on what? I'm literally in front of you as one of the many players already saying they're quitting, and a new one at that.
You're not a standard and neither am I.
No where did I imply or state that players should win games all the time, where is that argument coming from?
That argument has no place here. You're ignoring the underlying theme here.
People leave games they don't enjoy, that's not rocket science that's just objective truth in video games.
If you enjoy getting stomped for 30 to 40 games before you finally get into matches without winning even one or two because you are severely under equipped then props to you.
There are plenty of PVP games that and have lost many players. Heroes of the storm dota league of legends
I generally view that as just masochism.
Again you do you man but saying that no one's going to leave is ridiculous at this point when people already have.
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Fun is subjective as I said before. If you're quitting then good luck on your future gaming endeavors. I play pvp games to get better and dominate. People always say they're leaving yet the playerbase grows and I still see the same people a month later talking again. I enjoy the conversations I have with people. I'm not trying to sway you to my side nor am I saying your style of wanting to play is invalid.
I am saying though, if someone wants to stop playing then stop playing. If the game is that unplayable then don't force yourself. Either way, you do what makes you happy. I'm not here to sell you DBD. I'm here to talk about the game, my experiences on it, whether good or bad and try to report bugs if I find some.
That's why I enjoy the discussions and mostly avoid negative ones that have no substance. If I can have a good convo then I'm a happy person. When I have a bad few games, I avoid the forums. I don't like posting a ton of negative discussions. This will be my last reply on the matter, I believe. I do hope you enjoy your DBD experience. You'll see me pop up here and there in certain discussions and feel free to talk to me. I'm usually eager to engage in conversations about the game.
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DUDE, you are STILL being dismissive as hell. Have some damned empathy for the poor bastards getting stomped on right now. This is the one update in the game's history that actually has the potential to stifle it's growth because it punishes new players for being new. Don't tell me you would be hunky-dory alrighty if you just purchased League and just got destroyed every single game by the opposite team over and over while you don't even know how to play. You wouldn't even know what the hell was going on. And I don't need your life story about how you got gud 4 years ago (I was there too). Back then, we were all learning the game together and creating the meta as we went. There were no 4000 hour players back then either.
The rank system we had last week was flawed, sure, but it prevented a lot of older players going against the newer ones.
I'm not saying delete MMR. I'm saying over and over again that there is a PROBLEM with it. A big one. And it needs to be addressed quickly. We can't just say 'ohhh it'll sort itself out in a week or two, give it time.' No, you've already lost a huge chunk of potential new players who aren't going to come back now.
People need time to learn a new game gradually in a forgiving environment. When they've spent enough time learning the basics, then they can decide if they want to get gud or not.
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But you're not positive at all though, you've dismissed every single thing I've said by stating your personal experience.
also you're implying I don't want to improve based on the fact that I'm quitting this game Even though I've had games before this update came out. You didn't ask or address any of that. You just focused on the after.
Your experience is not comparable when you have people with thousands of hours versus people with little to none, tons of characters and balance changes over the years.
Developing a system to test the MMR system is not far-fetched at all and it's surprising to me as a new player that a game as robust as this hasn't had a chance to do that.
That's not my fault or anyone else's that the game doesn't have a properly working system at the moment. The developers should scrap or salvage the system as is and roll it back. Find what works and reimplement when it actually does work. That's not a hard concept at all, and there's nothing to fight about that.
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My reasoning is, I started out being face camped every match with no way to be rescued. Just like new players are being crushed by Rank 1s right now. It's how I started my experience with DBD. If you don't understand that, I really don't know a better way to explain it.
Having sympathy for new players being killed quickly and having almost the same learning curve that I had starting DBD? It's the same. I never told killers stop doing what you do. I didn't demand the devs to change how the game was played because I couldn't get a match very quickly?
It's like you think new survivors are helpless children who have never ever played a game where they're facing a strong opponent and got beat? This game might not be for everyone. If you can't have fun losing here and there, don't play a game.
If I decided to play the new COD and got stomped by max prestigers every match, would I quit because they had better guns and attachments? No? That would be stupid? I play until I get better and unlock the same #########? Just like new survivors level up and unlock meta perks.
Its a game. You will get stomped at some point. Whether it be now or later, it'll happen. That's the beauty of a PVP game. It's not a predetermined ending. It can go both ways. If you are literally not having fun, don't play the game and refund it. Torturing yourself over a game is a bit overboard.
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These things don't happen in a vacuum.
You wouldn't have seen what was happening at low ranks with hex:ruin pre-nerf. That went on for FAR too long and the collective killer community was CLUELESS at best or willfully ignorant at worse. Indeed the 'my poor hex ruin' posts still manage to nauseatingly find there way onto this forum.
New players simply couldn't manage skill checks in general, let alone hex:ruin. And people expected them to even understand the concept of totems and how they worked?? let alone find them all?? rofl please.
What you're confusing is the popularity of this game relative to retention which you won't know if you're only playing at red ranks. For online games my people gravitate to playing with friends and being team orientated, i suspect that devs feed new survivors to killers knowing they can retain enough to sustain the population.
This mmr system just seems to be an extension of the same concept. Feeding new players to veterans for the sake of queue times or w/e.
It's certainly not doing any good for the game. But like you said, a % of people will stay.
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all of those "brown" ranked survivors had multiple advanced perks. they DCd because you brought the ebony mori... not because you were good.
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