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Hex builds are better than given credit.
Ive been playing around with a full hex build on a few killers that i have the perks on.
Devour hope
Retribution
Ruin
Haunted grounds/3rd seal
And i have to say it works well. Do i get value out of the perks themselves? Not always but any survivor that runs across a lit totem cleanses it. Thats 14? Seconds they arent on gens. It doesn't seem like much but its better slowdown than thanaphobia or dying light. Plus it is in effect at the beginning of the game.
Of course i am rank 11 but matchmaking....used it with piggy except replaced haunted grounds with surveillance and 3k with a hatch and 1 gen left against 2 rank 1s a 3 and a 4. Everyone hooked 3 times but the one who got away.
Just saying hex perks are better than just their effects. Much like DS doesnt need to get used to effect a game.
Thoughts?
Comments
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Hex perks in generally are quite weak and not worth running.
The only hex that's currently worth being a Hex imo is DH. It's actually high risk/high reward. Almost all the other hex's are high risk/low-average reward.
Most their effects aren't good enough on top of totem spawns still being god awful years later.
Yeah they'll seem effective at lower ranks where people don't know what they're doing, but so will anything at that stage.
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Using perks so survivors cleanse a totem? Not a good use of a perk slot imo.
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As long as the totems can just spawn next to a generator or in the open, the hex perks will not be worth running.
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The issue with Hex perks is how unpredictable their success can be.
You either have amazing RNG with totem/hex spawns and you have some time to get value from your hex totems OR the totems are out in the open/survivor spawn right on top of them.
Because things are so inconsistent its not worth running Hex perks. A build that has consistently decent results will net you an overall better score than a build that fluctuates wildly.
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No they're really not, in my opinion.
They're based on different things, spawn, survivor spawns, map chosen and utility.
For the most part most hex totems don't do many game changing points that allow the killer to turn the match to their favor, difference being if you for instance get Devour to 5 tokens (somehow).
Survivors may just spawn right next to your totem or its surroundings making it so easy to be seen, if they're in a SWF comms, this becomes even impossible to avoid being cleansed.
Haunted grounds is a gamble, it can be broken at the best moment, or generally at the worst and now you're left without another perk.
You see, that's the issue with those perks, they rely on survivors either cleansing, or not cleansing them and in what moment it happens, they're bad builds overall because of that.
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not really hex builds are very map and rng dependent if you get something like midwitch or lerys with good rng it's worth it but if you get crotus with bad rng it'll be out in the open and gone in the beginning of the match
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I always believed all of that myself. Just saying that even vs all 4 red ranks it worked very well.
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Use them all Hex build at Rank 1 and I get consistent 3-4ks. Granted I use Ruin / Lullaby / Third Seal / Devour. It's fun to use the build and allow the Survivors to dictate the flow of the game. If they get mad at me for using the build (and they usually always do), I just blame them for how they refused to cleansed.
No Hex perk is weak. If they were, they wouldn't be Hex perks. These perks are powerful enough that they have to be put as Hexes so it's up to the Survivor on whether or not it's worth cleansing them.
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And I can get consistent 4k's at rank 1 with any killer using zero perks or addons, that doesn't mean that killer is strong.
"No Hex perk is weak. If they were, they wouldn't be Hex perks. These perks are powerful enough that they have to be put as Hexes so it's up to the Survivor on whether or not it's worth cleansing them."
No, they aren't hex perks because they are in fact strong, they are hex perks because the devs think they are strong and aren't the best at proper balancing.
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... Yeah it does? Even if you deviate from skill level, a Killer like Freddy for example gets very consistent skills due to his power and playstyle that anyone can pick up.
And again, also untrue. If you don't believe they are strong, I want you to imagine Ruin, Lullaby, Third Seal, Devour, and TOH as ordinary perks with the same abilities. Idk about you, but a Killer running around with Lullaby as a regular non-hex perk is significantly OP because there is no way to counter that unless you continually tap the gen to completion.
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There are certainly weak hex perks.
Lullaby, Third Seal, and Retribution, and Thrill are all weak.
Lullaby kinda of works on Doctor due to reverse skillchecks already messing up survivors, but on most other killers survivors can simply watch the center of their screen and hit skillchecks with no issues.
Third Seal would be fine if blindness was stronger. Blocking auras can hurt pure solo teams if they can't find the slugged survivor or forget where the hooked survivor was. But it's really not the worst status condition to have and it's even worse when you factor in swf who can just tell each other the same information they lost.
Retribution really doesn't do anything unless you have other hexes and it's more of a pity reward for losing a hex totem.
Thrill. Thrill alerts the killer when survivor starts a cleanse and slows down cleansing speed. But since survivors learn that thrill is active they can just use it to force out of a chase. Plus the cleansing speed gets weaker if survivors cleanse dulls first and you are not always going to be able to stop the cleanse despite knowing it's happening. Really defending totems isn't the best use of your time.
Retribution and Thrill are both too dependent on running other totems whereas you can run haunted ground alone and survivors are likely to cleanse it unless they are certain you have no other hex totem.
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"... Yeah it does? Even if you deviate from skill level, a Killer like Freddy for example gets very consistent skills due to his power and playstyle that anyone can pick up."
No, what it means is that there are a lot of bad survivors on average that make killers look stronger than they are.
"And again, also untrue. If you don't believe they are strong, I want you to imagine Ruin, Lullaby, Third Seal, Devour, and TOH as ordinary perks with the same abilities. Idk about you, but a Killer running around with Lullaby as a regular non-hex perk is significantly OP because there is no way to counter that unless you continually tap the gen to completion."
You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am not saying those perks shouldn't be hex perks. What I am saying is that they aren't good enough to warrant being hex perks. In other words, they need buffs.
Also, Lullaby is a terrible example. That perk is extremely weak. Even if it hypothetically wasn't a hex perk..still weak. It literally just removes the sound before the skill check and extra penalty if you miss...that's it. That is doing nothing against survivors that are even half competent. That would be devastating on what...a rank 20? Rank 1's aren't missing those skill checks.
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Just going to post these stats here that were reported last year. Regardless if it's brand new players or seasoned vets, Freddy still comes out on top as the Strongest Killer, which he is.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/stats-november-2019
Also, Lullaby is a prime example. Because it is devastating at Red Ranks because before MMR, I went against Rank 1-4 as a Rank 1 and when the hex wasn't immediately removed, it was extremely effective. Because even if they could hit those skill checks, they are too focused looking out for the next one and not their surroundings. The hex perks themselves do not need buffs. They are extremely good on their own without synergy which it what makes them great.
People understand how potent Lullaby is because that's usually the top 3 perks to immediately get removed along with DH and NOED. If people HAPPEN to see Ruin or Third Seal, they'll remove it of course. But they won't go out of their way to find it when it's a fast paced game and they don't have a lot of time.
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I don't necessarily like rolling the dice with the game, that 14 seconds really doesn't compare to something like Pop or Corrupt imo. The only hex perk I run is Haunted Grounds, its consistent with its usefulness.
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As has already been stated by the devs themselves and debunked many times, these stats should not be used to draw conclusions for balance. They are skewed by many, many things to where they are near worthless.
"The hex perks themselves do not need buffs. They are extremely good on their own without synergy which it what makes them great."
No one that seriously plays both sides at rank 1 with a good amount of hours would think that.
"People understand how potent Lullaby is because that's usually the top 3 perks to immediately get removed along with DH and NOED. If people HAPPEN to see Ruin or Third Seal, they'll remove it of course. But they won't go out of their way to find it when it's a fast paced game and they don't have a lot of time."
Because they don't need to, because it's weak and because they'll randomly stumble upon it anyway because totem spawns are bad. Lullaby is not a good perk dude.
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If you are going to run a hex build you need to run Hex: Thrill of the Hunt to make the others stronger and give you notifications. These builds get even stronger on killers like Hag, Trapper, and Demo. I used to do:
Hex: TotH
Hex: Ruin
Hex: Devour Hope
Hex: Huntress Lullaby
It forces two totems done to be able to do gens unless they are really good.
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This. I compare hex perks to DS. What makes DS so powerful is that it exists. Killers have to play around an obsession whether DS is there or not.
Running a hex build means that survivors have to be wary. Is this lit totem ruin or haunted grounds? I'm blind but is it worth triggering retribution and reveal my entite team? Yes some hex perks are stronger than others, but stacking them can not only be effective but also cause multiple survivors to go on time wasting totem hunts. Especially early game with ruin
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I prefer retribution to TOH. I dont play totem defence. Unless maybe if I have 4 stacks on devour and its the last one left. The aura read from retribution has shortened chases and even revealed an immersed survivor a time or two allowing me to pressure off of survivors cleansing totems.
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tbf if you halved the effect on ruin put a minimum amount of seconds it takes after a survivor stops working on a gen it would be a better surge
and lullaby is only trash because it warns people before it goes into effect
third seal will usually be trash because blindness isn't that strong
devour would be op
thrill would be ok
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i'd argue lullaby would be viable if it didn't warn you beforehand when I comes to the top solo/swf I agree with your statement but with average or slightly above average it would probably do some damage
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