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Survivor is easy

As a killer main without ruin survivors can get 1-2 gens done so fast you can't do anything. Maybe gen times are the issue? I just think survivor is too easy right now as all they do is rush gens and get out. Plus some killers don't like running ruin because it can be destroyed(totems should hurt survivors or curse them with the hex they destroyed) I don't like running ruin but I might have to because games are too short. But I regard survivor as easy mode :( i'd play survivor if it was a challenge and not gen popping easy. Maybe make doing gens a multi phase process instead of sitting there doing them when the killer is basically right beside them? because survivors are arrogant enough right now they are doing gens in your face pretty much. Maybe buff overcharge for 10/15/25% regression? sorry for the rage games are done too quickly :(

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Comments

  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742

    @Steebear said:
    Balancing the game for the entire player base is an impossible job.

    At the top end of the ranks the survivors have the advantage but at the lower end it is the killers.

    I am sympathetic but I would rather be challenged as a killer at the top ranks and struggle sometimes to do well rather than know that people that struggle as survivior in the lower ranks are getting competely wrecked.

    It is a tough one to sort out!

    All the survivors Ive faced at low rank are pretty good at popping gens so its not really a rank issue. If they are semi competent a survivor team without swf can do two gens very fast. That's without toolboxes,BNP(those gotta go) fact is survivors need more to do and gens need to be a process not just hitting skill checks.

  • Runiver
    Runiver Member Posts: 2,095

    Wow.
    Good thing they removed the "Vote Down" button.
    You would have been downvoted to oblivion with that kind of statement a few hours ago!

    When it comes to the game time, I think devs do like the rounds to be of an average of 8mins.
    The main issue being, if you make the round slower, it will empathize campers since you wouldn't have time to repair before the killer full camp 1-2 people, which could prove an issue, especially paired with NOED.

    That being said, some rounds are indeed, WAY too quick, and the best way would be to balance both generator time (making them eventually harder to repair not by increasing gen time, but giving more secondary objectives) and camping time.

  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742

    @Runiver said:
    Wow.
    Good thing they removed the "Vote Down" button.
    You would have been downvoted to oblivion with that kind of statement a few hours ago!

    When it comes to the game time, I think devs do like the rounds to be of an average of 8mins.
    The main issue being, if you make the round slower, it will empathize campers since you wouldn't have time to repair before the killer full camp 1-2 people, which could prove an issue, especially paired with NOED.

    That being said, some rounds are indeed, WAY too quick, and the best way would be to balance both generator time (making them eventually harder to repair not by increasing gen time, but giving more secondary objectives) and camping time.

    That is all im asking for lol no 4-5 minute games lol 8-10 would be nice actually. Killers literally have time against them unless you have ruin which can be destroyed and pop goes the weasel has gen slowing potential if it was a flat 25% gen reduction instead of 25% off the current gen progression.

  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742

    I just want fun matches :)

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @sorrowen said:
    As a killer main without ruin survivors can get 1-2 gens done so fast you can't do anything. Maybe gen times are the issue? I just think survivor is too easy right now as all they do is rush gens and get out. Plus some killers don't like running ruin because it can be destroyed(totems should hurt survivors or curse them with the hex they destroyed) I don't like running ruin but I might have to because games are too short. But I regard survivor as easy mode :( i'd play survivor if it was a challenge and not gen popping easy. Maybe make doing gens a multi phase process instead of sitting there doing them when the killer is basically right beside them? because survivors are arrogant enough right now they are doing gens in your face pretty much. Maybe buff overcharge for 10/15/25% regression? sorry for the rage games are done too quickly :(

    If survivors dont fool around, dont search for chests etc, then this means that 3 gens are done till you catch the first guy. From that you have to hope that you can get sth going by snowballing.

    Even ruin wont change that against good survivors as the depip squad proved

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Steebear said:
    Balancing the game for the entire player base is an impossible job.

    At the top end of the ranks the survivors have the advantage but at the lower end it is the killers.

    I am sympathetic but I would rather be challenged as a killer at the top ranks and struggle sometimes to do well rather than know that people that struggle as survivior in the lower ranks are getting competely wrecked.

    It is a tough one to sort out!

    Impossible? Other games manage it too, maybe not perfect balance but at least a touch of it.... In DBD you cant say so sadly

  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742
    Master said:

    @Steebear said:
    Balancing the game for the entire player base is an impossible job.

    At the top end of the ranks the survivors have the advantage but at the lower end it is the killers.

    I am sympathetic but I would rather be challenged as a killer at the top ranks and struggle sometimes to do well rather than know that people that struggle as survivior in the lower ranks are getting competely wrecked.

    It is a tough one to sort out!

    Impossible? Other games manage it too, maybe not perfect balance but at least a touch of it.... In DBD you cant say so sadly

    Killer is supposed to be over powered and people want the killer role to actually be powerful. However all the looping and gen rushing takes the fear out of survivors. I’d be fine with one health state you hook em and they die no second chances. Of course I like challenging games and that’s what made Bloodborne and dark souls so great death has a real consequence in those games. DBD should have that instead of it being rage inducing as a killer and easy as survivor.
  • Kiores
    Kiores Member Posts: 34
    sorrowen said:

    As a killer main without ruin survivors can get 1-2 gens done so fast you can't do anything. Maybe gen times are the issue? I just think survivor is too easy right now as all they do is rush gens and get out. Plus some killers don't like running ruin because it can be destroyed(totems should hurt survivors or curse them with the hex they destroyed) I don't like running ruin but I might have to because games are too short. But I regard survivor as easy mode :( i'd play survivor if it was a challenge and not gen popping easy. Maybe make doing gens a multi phase process instead of sitting there doing them when the killer is basically right beside them? because survivors are arrogant enough right now they are doing gens in your face pretty much. Maybe buff overcharge for 10/15/25% regression? sorry for the rage games are done too quickly :(

    Firstly, I'll just mention that rank is almost obsolete above rank 15, as experienced players don't necessarily stay high rank, and some even drank on purpose, I'd blame the rank reset Tbh, but it's not only that

    Secondly, your job as a killer is to keep survivors off gens as well as sacrificing them, this is hard however, as not many killers can put pressure on survivors, this is why Hillbilly is top tier killer, as his chainsaw sprinting makes survivors leave gens even if it's for seconds, and if you don't take baits and change target if you're getting looped, you can keep most gens safe from survivors, and in most games find a survivor that will waste pallets for you (bad loopers) that you can trick into wasting all pallets near the gens that are closest to eachother etc
  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742
    Kiores said:
    sorrowen said:

    As a killer main without ruin survivors can get 1-2 gens done so fast you can't do anything. Maybe gen times are the issue? I just think survivor is too easy right now as all they do is rush gens and get out. Plus some killers don't like running ruin because it can be destroyed(totems should hurt survivors or curse them with the hex they destroyed) I don't like running ruin but I might have to because games are too short. But I regard survivor as easy mode :( i'd play survivor if it was a challenge and not gen popping easy. Maybe make doing gens a multi phase process instead of sitting there doing them when the killer is basically right beside them? because survivors are arrogant enough right now they are doing gens in your face pretty much. Maybe buff overcharge for 10/15/25% regression? sorry for the rage games are done too quickly :(

    Firstly, I'll just mention that rank is almost obsolete above rank 15, as experienced players don't necessarily stay high rank, and some even drank on purpose, I'd blame the rank reset Tbh, but it's not only that

    Secondly, your job as a killer is to keep survivors off gens as well as sacrificing them, this is hard however, as not many killers can put pressure on survivors, this is why Hillbilly is top tier killer, as his chainsaw sprinting makes survivors leave gens even if it's for seconds, and if you don't take baits and change target if you're getting looped, you can keep most gens safe from survivors, and in most games find a survivor that will waste pallets for you (bad loopers) that you can trick into wasting all pallets near the gens that are closest to eachother etc
    I do play hillbilly and even with him it’s hard to keep up gen pressure. Survivors simply get them done to fast and have it very easy. There shouldn’t be only 3-4 viable killers in the game. I’d actually play survivor if it wasn’t a walk in the park. That and the amount of pallets is absurd in some maps.
  • Sleepy
    Sleepy Member Posts: 107

    I don't know what to say, as it currently stands the game is just very pro-survivors.

    I main killer, I didn't like playing as a survivor from day one, and it is just too easy for survivors.

    I don't know whether I'm just that bad at the game or what, but as you said, games finish too quick and sometimes I get 3 gennys fixed one after another.

    Pallets are driving me insane because they are abused so easily with little repercussion to the survivor.

    The game is Dead by Daylight, it's supposed to be hard on survivors, not killers.

    Just my two cents.

  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742
    Sleepy said:

    I don't know what to say, as it currently stands the game is just very pro-survivors.

    I main killer, I didn't like playing as a survivor from day one, and it is just too easy for survivors.

    I don't know whether I'm just that bad at the game or what, but as you said, games finish too quick and sometimes I get 3 gennys fixed one after another.

    Pallets are driving me insane because they are abused so easily with little repercussion to the survivor.

    The game is Dead by Daylight, it's supposed to be hard on survivors, not killers.

    Just my two cents.

    It’s supposed to be a horror game and looping drives me nuts as well. I suck as survivor and even I can loop lol and I’ve had survivors say they try and bully me just because I main killer. The difficulty disparity is great and only aided by perks such as DS(trash this perk),sprint burst(nerf this one into oblivion) and honestly even SC but that can be delt with if you have nurses calling. Pallets need to be drastically reduced and some maps like lery’s well that one can go away as far as I’m concerned. I’ve been playing billy lately and I don’t enjoy the looping simulator it literally takes no skill. Also BNP’s need to go away just trash those maybe the game needs a reinvention? I only feel like I have a fair chance vs survivors as nurse lately and even then playing with great cruelty and basically throwing being nice out the window.
  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    Can I ask what builds you run on which killers @sorrowen ?

    Yes..survivors have it easier in most situations, but if you get better as a killer you don't have as many problems. It's only when you have 4 very good survivors that you struggle more. Bad games happen and you're not supposed to win every game. This goes for both sides. Get over it and play around things that can be played around. Find survivors quicker, end chases quicker, dribble DS, don't whiff, mind game correctly, learn the maps, learn the spawns, pick up facing walls, fake pick ups, use bait, slug...there is so much you can do and learn, but it's just so much easier to complain.

    "git gud" might be a meme, but...get good :)

  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742

    Can I ask what builds you run on which killers @sorrowen ?

    Yes..survivors have it easier in most situations, but if you get better as a killer you don't have as many problems. It's only when you have 4 very good survivors that you struggle more. Bad games happen and you're not supposed to win every game. This goes for both sides. Get over it and play around things that can be played around. Find survivors quicker, end chases quicker, dribble DS, don't whiff, mind game correctly, learn the maps, learn the spawns, pick up facing walls, fake pick ups, use bait, slug...there is so much you can do and learn, but it's just so much easier to complain.

    "git gud" might be a meme, but...get good :)

    Lol this comment is almost a parody of the after game chat 🤣🤣 git gud 🤣🤣🤣 I stopped taking that seriously a while ago as it means nothing as survivor has a low skill ceiling and only a few killers have a higher skill ceiling and even then mostly are mindlessly looped or as you said “mind games” 😒 so I’ll say it politely spare me the git gud lecture 😊  With nurse you can make actual choices but she is the only one able to do such a thing as it currently stands.
  • Sleepy
    Sleepy Member Posts: 107

    @only1biggs
    Survivors have it much easier in almost all situations.

    Bad games happen yes, I'm very well aware that I'm not a pro at this game and that I'm a beginner, that doesn't mean that survivors aren't OP mechanics wise. They very much are.

    As I told an acquaintance when streaming last night, I don't want to win every game, because if I do, that sucks the fun out of it, but when I get 4-man SWF who troll and "bully" (lol such an odd word to use but it fits) me in this game then I will very much so complain.

    There's absolutely zero skill in running around some rocks to get the killer closer to you so you can stun him with a pallet and then run away while the killer's camera is facing the ground.

    In a game like this, again, it's supposed to be hard against killers, not survivors.

    I'm the "bad guy", I should have the "advantage".

    But hey, let's not fix pallet looping and stunning, let's not force survivors build some skills in order to escape a killer, let's just have them WASD into oblivion and 180 and 360.

    I love this game a lot, I love its styling, I love it as far as buying the trapper mask (never done this with a game before, buy merch), but it's increasingly frustrating to play as a killer.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @sorrowen said:
    only1biggs said:

    Can I ask what builds you run on which killers @sorrowen ?

    Yes..survivors have it easier in most situations, but if you get better as a killer you don't have as many problems. It's only when you have 4 very good survivors that you struggle more. Bad games happen and you're not supposed to win every game. This goes for both sides. Get over it and play around things that can be played around. Find survivors quicker, end chases quicker, dribble DS, don't whiff, mind game correctly, learn the maps, learn the spawns, pick up facing walls, fake pick ups, use bait, slug...there is so much you can do and learn, but it's just so much easier to complain.

    "git gud" might be a meme, but...get good :)

    Lol this comment is almost a parody of the after game chat 🤣🤣 git gud 🤣🤣🤣 I stopped taking that seriously a while ago as it means nothing as survivor has a low skill ceiling and only a few killers have a higher skill ceiling and even then mostly are mindlessly looped or as you said “mind games” 😒 so I’ll say it politely spare me the git gud lecture 😊  With nurse you can make actual choices but she is the only one able to do such a thing as it currently stands.

    You seem to have ignored or cherry picked my entire post.

    My skill ceiling was low.. like I am presuming yours to be...but then I built skill walls, with a skill floor and a skill fireplace...and I became better. I can get better still and hope to build a new skill bathroom very soon.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @Sleepy said:
    @only1biggs
    Survivors have it much easier in almost all situations.

    Bad games happen yes, I'm very well aware that I'm not a pro at this game and that I'm a beginner, that doesn't mean that survivors aren't OP mechanics wise. They very much are.

    As I told an acquaintance when streaming last night, I don't want to win every game, because if I do, that sucks the fun out of it, but when I get 4-man SWF who troll and "bully" (lol such an odd word to use but it fits) me in this game then I will very much so complain.

    There's absolutely zero skill in running around some rocks to get the killer closer to you so you can stun him with a pallet and then run away while the killer's camera is facing the ground.

    In a game like this, again, it's supposed to be hard against killers, not survivors.

    I'm the "bad guy", I should have the "advantage".

    But hey, let's not fix pallet looping and stunning, let's not force survivors build some skills in order to escape a killer, let's just have them WASD into oblivion and 180 and 360.

    I love this game a lot, I love its styling, I love it as far as buying the trapper mask (never done this with a game before, buy merch), but it's increasingly frustrating to play as a killer.

    So, you're saying you're not great at this game and then think it's appropriate to talk about skill and mechanics? It's one thing to know how to run a killer, it's another to actually do it and do it correctly and efficiently.

    If you are getting trolled by 4man swf's then you really need to get better or not care about that kind of thing. I for one love these groups as they play like idiots and I can win the game easily.

    If as a killer you are allowing 180's or 360's, then...you're bad. Sorry.

  • Sleepy
    Sleepy Member Posts: 107

    @only1biggs
    So, you're saying that it's not appropriate to talk about skills and mechanics because I'm a beginner? Makes total sense my dude.

    If you are getting trolled by 4man swf's then you really need to get better or not care about that kind of thing.

    Or maybe, you know, enforce and encourage people NOT to troll, decency should be enforced.

    If as a killer you are allowing 180's or 360's, then...you're bad. Sorry.

    I sure am, when my camera is facing the ground because of some animation, or because they keep window juking.

    I respect your right to voice your opinions but I disagree with them. Best of luck.

  • weirdkid5
    weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,144

    @Steebear said:
    Balancing the game for the entire player base is an impossible job.

    At the top end of the ranks the survivors have the advantage but at the lower end it is the killers.

    I am sympathetic but I would rather be challenged as a killer at the top ranks and struggle sometimes to do well rather than know that people that struggle as survivior in the lower ranks are getting competely wrecked.

    It is a tough one to sort out!

    This isnt true. Survivors always have the advantage. You shouldn't balance the game around the fact people are terrible, which is what BHVR does.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @Sleepy said:
    @only1biggs
    So, you're saying that it's not appropriate to talk about skills and mechanics because I'm a beginner? Makes total sense my dude.

    If you are getting trolled by 4man swf's then you really need to get better or not care about that kind of thing.

    Or maybe, you know, enforce and encourage people NOT to troll, decency should be enforced.

    If as a killer you are allowing 180's or 360's, then...you're bad. Sorry.

    I sure am, when my camera is facing the ground because of some animation, or because they keep window juking.

    I respect your right to voice your opinions but I disagree with them. Best of luck.

    Well, I mean, if you are a beginner, maybe learn more first, then you can give an informed opinion? It's called rational thinking.

    It's a computer game..so long as they aren't glitching or something to gain an advantage or holding a game hostage etc, people can play as they wish...you considering 4 friends having fun as "trolling" is irrelevant I'm afraid.

    I respect your right to voice yours, but you should accept those opinions being challenged if you just spew them onto a public forum, when you have said yourself you are a beginner. If you went to the doctors and the receptionist gave you a medical opinion, you'd tell him/her to politely go fvck themselves.

    And no...I'm not a doctor.

  • Sleepy
    Sleepy Member Posts: 107

    You don't need a pro DbD player to recognize that the pallet looping and vacuuming is a broken system. I've a right to dislike things even if in your head it doesn't seem rational, in my head it does.

    There's quite a difference between 4 friends or players that met in LFG channels playing fair and square, and 3 out of 4 survivors constantly orbiting around you and baiting you, as well as body blocking you when attempting to place one of them on a hook, and whatever. I'm guessing you do this? Since you seem to disregard my opinions on this matter? And well, you considering 4 trolls as "just friends having fun" is irrelevant I'm afraid.

    And are you really comparing a game to a doctor's appointment? I don't think you spent years studying this game to become a professional. If you have, though, please show me your degree in this field and I will stand corrected.

    Otherwise no, I never tell doctors to go "copulate" themselves. They spent years learning the different things they do. Something you haven't done.

  • weirdkid5
    weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,144

    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178
    edited June 2018

    @Sleepy said:
    You don't need a pro DbD player to recognize that the pallet looping and vacuuming is a broken system. I've a right to dislike things even if in your head it doesn't seem rational, in my head it does.

    There's quite a difference between 4 friends or players that met in LFG channels playing fair and square, and 3 out of 4 survivors constantly orbiting around you and baiting you, as well as body blocking you when attempting to place one of them on a hook, and whatever. I'm guessing you do this? Since you seem to disregard my opinions on this matter? And well, you considering 4 trolls as "just friends having fun" is irrelevant I'm afraid.

    And are you really comparing a game to a doctor's appointment? I don't think you spent years studying this game to become a professional. If you have, though, please show me your degree in this field and I will stand corrected.

    Otherwise no, I never tell doctors to go "copulate" themselves. They spent years learning the different things they do. Something you haven't done.

    Oh my god...

    You really need to read what I posted carefully. The doctor/receptionist thing was a metaphor, so no, I wasn't comparing the two. At no point did I say to tell the Doctor to "fvck off".
    However, games can and will be studied. If someone for example has over 2 or 3k hours in the game, I'd be more inclined to listen to their opinion on the game.

    If survivors are orbiting you, why aren't you killing them? :/ Oh, and no, I mostly play killer and usually solo queue as survivor. When I play survivor I don't exhibit the behaviours you mentioned, but assume away.

    Wow. just...wow.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There are plenty of games where everyone has fun...some game where the killer has fun (and by extension the survivors might not), and vice versa. It's a game though, just move on to the next one?

  • Sleepy
    Sleepy Member Posts: 107

    I indeed made a mistake and I should've read better. I'll give you that one, so I apologize for that.

    But you're gatekeeping a wee bit much. Some people like you exist, that's fine.

    I'll just end the discussion right here, because in your opinion, everything I say is irrelevant because I'm new.

    So why should I bother writing to you, when you'll just disregard anything I say?

    Wow. just...wow.

  • weirdkid5
    weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,144

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There are plenty of games where everyone has fun...some game where the killer has fun (and by extension the survivors might not), and vice versa. It's a game though, just move on to the next one?

    "Its just a game" and "move on to the next one" are the highest levels of dismissal as well as your failure to acknowledge that SWF breaks the balance.

    I'll be moving on.

  • skvirl
    skvirl Member Posts: 92

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

  • weirdkid5
    weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,144

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There are plenty of games where everyone has fun...some game where the killer has fun (and by extension the survivors might not), and vice versa. It's a game though, just move on to the next one?

    "Its just a game" and "move on to the next one" are the highest levels of dismissal as well as your failure to acknowledge that SWF breaks the balance.

    I'll be moving on.

    No I know it does...and I'm not being dismissive. SWF's is broken, especially among good players..but, people aren't as good as they think they are in this game and choose to moan instead of learning more.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @Sleepy said:
    I indeed made a mistake and I should've read better. I'll give you that one, so I apologize for that.

    But you're gatekeeping a wee bit much. Some people like you exist, that's fine.

    I'll just end the discussion right here, because in your opinion, everything I say is irrelevant because I'm new.

    So why should I bother writing to you, when you'll just disregard anything I say?

    Wow. just...wow.

    I have no idea what you mean, but I never said "everything you say is irrelevant because you're new".

  • SadonicShadow
    SadonicShadow Member Posts: 1,146

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

    What? If something is a regular occurrence then it's irrelevant? What are talking about? Surely the opposite is true? What? Did you just mind game yourself? :/

    Yes, it is a problem when 4 players come together with more hours combined than I have sperm cells. It really is. But it happens so rarely that they proved nothing other than what everybody already knew. It was well intentioned but ultimately pointless. To play the way they did is not indicative of how the majority of games go or how the majority of people play (there are stats to support this).

  • SadonicShadow
    SadonicShadow Member Posts: 1,146

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

    What? If something is a regular occurrence then it's irrelevant? What are talking about? Surely the opposite is true? What? Did you just mind game yourself? :/

    Yes, it is a problem when 4 players come together with more hours combined than I have sperm cells. It really is. But it happens so rarely that they proved nothing other than what everybody already knew. It was well intentioned but ultimately pointless. To play the way they did is not indicative of how the majority of games go or how the majority of people play (there are stats to support this).

    I apologize for that confusion. I made a typo. I meant to say that even if the way they play is NOT a regular occurrence it still represents a problem with respect to balance. People might not always play like them now but high hour SWF players most certainly do especially in 4 man squads at high ranks and this playstyle will become a major problem in the future and become alot more common once leaderboards are released. At that point the try hard SWF groups will have no reason to hold back be it to troll the killer or just dick around farming the map. They will slam the gens hard and get out before the killer has time to even hook a single person.

    My whole point is that the devs are going to need to bring this into consideration. Its the defacto best way to survive and its so effective that any killer regardless of skill or playtime stands no chance against it. If the survivors want to accomplish their sole objective and survive they can do it and the killer will be powerless to stop them. its a fundamental game flaw the devs will HAVE to address if they ever hope for this game to become competitive and balanced.

  • Visionmaker
    Visionmaker Member Posts: 2,051

    @skvirl said:
    Ah, I see you brought up the de-pip squad...such a redundant experiment.

    Can someone please LINK the data and spreadsheet to this 'experiment'? Like what variables they tracked? What killers they faced? What ranks each killer was?

    No one ever seems to have it despite waving it around like the DBD Bible.

  • This content has been removed.
  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178
    edited June 2018

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

    What? If something is a regular occurrence then it's irrelevant? What are talking about? Surely the opposite is true? What? Did you just mind game yourself? :/

    Yes, it is a problem when 4 players come together with more hours combined than I have sperm cells. It really is. But it happens so rarely that they proved nothing other than what everybody already knew. It was well intentioned but ultimately pointless. To play the way they did is not indicative of how the majority of games go or how the majority of people play (there are stats to support this).

    I apologize for that confusion. I made a typo. I meant to say that even if the way they play is NOT a regular occurrence it still represents a problem with respect to balance. People might not always play like them now but high hour SWF players most certainly do especially in 4 man squads at high ranks and this playstyle will become a major problem in the future and become alot more common once leaderboards are released. At that point the try hard SWF groups will have no reason to hold back be it to troll the killer or just dick around farming the map. They will slam the gens hard and get out before the killer has time to even hook a single person.

    My whole point is that the devs are going to need to bring this into consideration. Its the defacto best way to survive and its so effective that any killer regardless of skill or playtime stands no chance against it. If the survivors want to accomplish their sole objective and survive they can do it and the killer will be powerless to stop them. its a fundamental game flaw the devs will HAVE to address if they ever hope for this game to become competitive and balanced.

    Can you please read your comments before posting them? :/ "NOT a regular occurrence, it still represents a problem with balance". NO. No it doesn't. You have to see that what you just wrote is contradictory? The majority of games are not like this de-pip nonsense, stop pretending like they are and stop pretending there isn't anything to be done about it in game. There were exceptional killers that killed marth and his friends...aim to be better like them.

    When leader-boards come out then we can all have a conversation about balance then. But you're assuming that all these survivors are going to really pull up their sleeves and try hard...where are they now? If it's so easy why not just all do it now? You are just thinking of the extreme again.

    And, come on...competitive and balanced? There is too much RNG for this game to be competitive. You can be competitive, sure, but don't think this game can ever be balanced for the purposes of competitive play. You win or lose in this game and you do both regularly.

  • SadonicShadow
    SadonicShadow Member Posts: 1,146

    @Visionmaker said:

    @skvirl said:
    Ah, I see you brought up the de-pip squad...such a redundant experiment.

    Can someone please LINK the data and spreadsheet to this 'experiment'? Like what variables they tracked? What killers they faced? What ranks each killer was?

    No one ever seems to have it despite waving it around like the DBD Bible.

    Here is the link to his spreadsheet with the emblem system https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--ynBWebOR-AqfV4OesP7uUjbbAVVeVVmWy0ihfYI-c/edit#gid=0

  • SadonicShadow
    SadonicShadow Member Posts: 1,146

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

    What? If something is a regular occurrence then it's irrelevant? What are talking about? Surely the opposite is true? What? Did you just mind game yourself? :/

    Yes, it is a problem when 4 players come together with more hours combined than I have sperm cells. It really is. But it happens so rarely that they proved nothing other than what everybody already knew. It was well intentioned but ultimately pointless. To play the way they did is not indicative of how the majority of games go or how the majority of people play (there are stats to support this).

    I apologize for that confusion. I made a typo. I meant to say that even if the way they play is NOT a regular occurrence it still represents a problem with respect to balance. People might not always play like them now but high hour SWF players most certainly do especially in 4 man squads at high ranks and this playstyle will become a major problem in the future and become alot more common once leaderboards are released. At that point the try hard SWF groups will have no reason to hold back be it to troll the killer or just dick around farming the map. They will slam the gens hard and get out before the killer has time to even hook a single person.

    My whole point is that the devs are going to need to bring this into consideration. Its the defacto best way to survive and its so effective that any killer regardless of skill or playtime stands no chance against it. If the survivors want to accomplish their sole objective and survive they can do it and the killer will be powerless to stop them. its a fundamental game flaw the devs will HAVE to address if they ever hope for this game to become competitive and balanced.

    Can you please read your comments before posting them? :/ "NOT a regular occurrence, it still represents a problem with balance". NO. No it doesn't. You have to see that what you just wrote is contradictory? The majority of games are not like this de-pip nonsense, stop pretending like they are and stop pretending there isn't anything to be done about it in game. There were exceptional killers that killed marth and his friends...aim to be better like them.

    When leader-boards come out then we can all have a conversation about balance then. But you're assuming that all these survivors are going to really pull up their sleeves and try hard...where are they now? If it's so easy why not just all do it now? You are just thinking of the extreme again.

    And, come on...competitive and balanced? There is too much RNG for this game to be competitive. You can be competitive, sure, but don't think this game can ever be balanced for the purposes of competitive play. You win or lose in this game and you do both regularly.

    Ok, how as a killer do i stop a SWF coordinated gen rush when the survivors have a sea of pallets, every crutch perk under the sun, BNP's, etc. What is my counterplay as killer? Marth showed that there is nothing you can do but hope they make really dumb mistakes that the killer can capitalize on. I dont care if every 1/100 games are like the depip squad or if all of them are. There is NOTHING a killer can do to stop them unless the survivors screwup. Marths stats speak for themselves. You like to pretend that these tryhard groups dont exist. They do and i get them alot. Some are ass and they make mistakes that i can use against them but then you get some that know where every pallet spawns and can loop you and loop you and the moment you leave them to go get someone else they hop back on a gen and the other guy repeats the process and the game is done before you could even catch one. You are deluding yourself if you think this is not a problem. Acting like because every other game in not always cancer it somehow is ok and i just need to get good.

  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

    What? If something is a regular occurrence then it's irrelevant? What are talking about? Surely the opposite is true? What? Did you just mind game yourself? :/

    Yes, it is a problem when 4 players come together with more hours combined than I have sperm cells. It really is. But it happens so rarely that they proved nothing other than what everybody already knew. It was well intentioned but ultimately pointless. To play the way they did is not indicative of how the majority of games go or how the majority of people play (there are stats to support this).

    I apologize for that confusion. I made a typo. I meant to say that even if the way they play is NOT a regular occurrence it still represents a problem with respect to balance. People might not always play like them now but high hour SWF players most certainly do especially in 4 man squads at high ranks and this playstyle will become a major problem in the future and become alot more common once leaderboards are released. At that point the try hard SWF groups will have no reason to hold back be it to troll the killer or just dick around farming the map. They will slam the gens hard and get out before the killer has time to even hook a single person.

    My whole point is that the devs are going to need to bring this into consideration. Its the defacto best way to survive and its so effective that any killer regardless of skill or playtime stands no chance against it. If the survivors want to accomplish their sole objective and survive they can do it and the killer will be powerless to stop them. its a fundamental game flaw the devs will HAVE to address if they ever hope for this game to become competitive and balanced.

    Can you please read your comments before posting them? :/ "NOT a regular occurrence, it still represents a problem with balance". NO. No it doesn't. You have to see that what you just wrote is contradictory? The majority of games are not like this de-pip nonsense, stop pretending like they are and stop pretending there isn't anything to be done about it in game. There were exceptional killers that killed marth and his friends...aim to be better like them.

    When leader-boards come out then we can all have a conversation about balance then. But you're assuming that all these survivors are going to really pull up their sleeves and try hard...where are they now? If it's so easy why not just all do it now? You are just thinking of the extreme again.

    And, come on...competitive and balanced? There is too much RNG for this game to be competitive. You can be competitive, sure, but don't think this game can ever be balanced for the purposes of competitive play. You win or lose in this game and you do both regularly.

    Ok, how as a killer do i stop a SWF coordinated gen rush when the survivors have a sea of pallets, every crutch perk under the sun, BNP's, etc. What is my counterplay as killer? Marth showed that there is nothing you can do but hope they make really dumb mistakes that the killer can capitalize on. I dont care if every 1/100 games are like the depip squad or if all of them are. There is NOTHING a killer can do to stop them unless the survivors screwup. Marths stats speak for themselves. You like to pretend that these tryhard groups dont exist. They do and i get them alot. Some are ass and they make mistakes that i can use against them but then you get some that know where every pallet spawns and can loop you and loop you and the moment you leave them to go get someone else they hop back on a gen and the other guy repeats the process and the game is done before you could even catch one. You are deluding yourself if you think this is not a problem. Acting like because every other game in not always cancer it somehow is ok and i just need to get good.

    If you don't care if 1/100 games are like it or not then why are you so fervently arguing your non point?

    We all know that in the extreme cases like you mentioned the killer can't do much. At no point did I say otherwise. These try hard groups you speak of are not the extreme we are talking about (marth's group) and you are blurring the lines and not staying on point. I'm not being delusional, you are.

    You will lose and win a lot in this game. Some will be better than you. Get better and learn or don't...or just keep talking about the EXTREME scenario involving marth's bunch which never happens.

    It says more about you as a killer that you can't deal with losing or can't fathom a way to counter competent survivors. Sometimes you might play badly. Sometimes mistakes will be made and you are there to pounce. YOU have the ability to force the mistakes though. If survivors make mistakes they get punished..if a killer makes mistakes they get punished. If a survivor looks good and not likely to make a mistake, go for someone else. If they are in an area that is too safe, go find another. Slug. Bait. Whatever. It's not supposed to be a walk in the park otherwise it would be boring.

  • SadonicShadow
    SadonicShadow Member Posts: 1,146
    edited June 2018

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

    What? If something is a regular occurrence then it's irrelevant? What are talking about? Surely the opposite is true? What? Did you just mind game yourself? :/

    Yes, it is a problem when 4 players come together with more hours combined than I have sperm cells. It really is. But it happens so rarely that they proved nothing other than what everybody already knew. It was well intentioned but ultimately pointless. To play the way they did is not indicative of how the majority of games go or how the majority of people play (there are stats to support this).

    I apologize for that confusion. I made a typo. I meant to say that even if the way they play is NOT a regular occurrence it still represents a problem with respect to balance. People might not always play like them now but high hour SWF players most certainly do especially in 4 man squads at high ranks and this playstyle will become a major problem in the future and become alot more common once leaderboards are released. At that point the try hard SWF groups will have no reason to hold back be it to troll the killer or just dick around farming the map. They will slam the gens hard and get out before the killer has time to even hook a single person.

    My whole point is that the devs are going to need to bring this into consideration. Its the defacto best way to survive and its so effective that any killer regardless of skill or playtime stands no chance against it. If the survivors want to accomplish their sole objective and survive they can do it and the killer will be powerless to stop them. its a fundamental game flaw the devs will HAVE to address if they ever hope for this game to become competitive and balanced.

    Can you please read your comments before posting them? :/ "NOT a regular occurrence, it still represents a problem with balance". NO. No it doesn't. You have to see that what you just wrote is contradictory? The majority of games are not like this de-pip nonsense, stop pretending like they are and stop pretending there isn't anything to be done about it in game. There were exceptional killers that killed marth and his friends...aim to be better like them.

    When leader-boards come out then we can all have a conversation about balance then. But you're assuming that all these survivors are going to really pull up their sleeves and try hard...where are they now? If it's so easy why not just all do it now? You are just thinking of the extreme again.

    And, come on...competitive and balanced? There is too much RNG for this game to be competitive. You can be competitive, sure, but don't think this game can ever be balanced for the purposes of competitive play. You win or lose in this game and you do both regularly.

    Ok, how as a killer do i stop a SWF coordinated gen rush when the survivors have a sea of pallets, every crutch perk under the sun, BNP's, etc. What is my counterplay as killer? Marth showed that there is nothing you can do but hope they make really dumb mistakes that the killer can capitalize on. I dont care if every 1/100 games are like the depip squad or if all of them are. There is NOTHING a killer can do to stop them unless the survivors screwup. Marths stats speak for themselves. You like to pretend that these tryhard groups dont exist. They do and i get them alot. Some are ass and they make mistakes that i can use against them but then you get some that know where every pallet spawns and can loop you and loop you and the moment you leave them to go get someone else they hop back on a gen and the other guy repeats the process and the game is done before you could even catch one. You are deluding yourself if you think this is not a problem. Acting like because every other game in not always cancer it somehow is ok and i just need to get good.

    If you don't care if 1/100 games are like it or not then why are you so fervently arguing your non point?

    We all know that in the extreme cases like you mentioned the killer can't do much. At no point did I say otherwise. These try hard groups you speak of are not the extreme we are talking about (marth's group) and you are blurring the lines and not staying on point. I'm not being delusional, you are.

    You will lose and win a lot in this game. Some will be better than you. Get better and learn or don't...or just keep talking about the EXTREME scenario involving marth's bunch which never happens.

    It says more about you as a killer that you can't deal with losing or can't fathom a way to counter competent survivors. Sometimes you might play badly. Sometimes mistakes will be made and you are there to pounce. YOU have the ability to force the mistakes though. If survivors make mistakes they get punished..if a killer makes mistakes they get punished. If a survivor looks good and not likely to make a mistake, go for someone else. If they are in an area that is too safe, go find another. Slug. Bait. Whatever. It's not supposed to be a walk in the park otherwise it would be boring.

    If map design was better and the survivors had less tools to waste my time i would agree with you but there is a difference between going up against a group of challenging survivors and a group of impossible ones. The skilled survivors that know how to waste my time are almost impossible to deal with. To many pallets, to many looping spots and not enough time for me to deal with it all before the final gen is brought online. Likewise if they screw up and i catch one my reward is a good ol' fashioned D strike while they sprint burst away and i am forced to repeat the process. Gens done in 3 minutes, eat 3 - 4 D strikes and 20+ pallets. Games over before i kill one. Guess i am just a bad killer.

  • Visionmaker
    Visionmaker Member Posts: 2,051

    @SadonicShadow

    Thank you!

  • BOSS242
    BOSS242 Member Posts: 170
    Survivor is not all that easy!! Yes there are survivors that play 4 man teams and they are very good but they have to account for 1% or less of survivors playing this game, just like there are super great killers that can handle those kind of teams but again very few I'm sure. It's like saying football sucks because I cant play in the NFL!? This is a game and it is extremely fun when you play with the right skill level of opponent. Unfortunately the emblem system is broke right now making it far to easy to pip as killer and way to hard to pip as survivor so killers that shouldn't be at that level are getting to go against THE NFL ya dig? Just take a few losses and before you know it you'll be having fun at your appropriate skill level. Sincerely a non-toxic fun loving level 16 survivor main :)
  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

    What? If something is a regular occurrence then it's irrelevant? What are talking about? Surely the opposite is true? What? Did you just mind game yourself? :/

    Yes, it is a problem when 4 players come together with more hours combined than I have sperm cells. It really is. But it happens so rarely that they proved nothing other than what everybody already knew. It was well intentioned but ultimately pointless. To play the way they did is not indicative of how the majority of games go or how the majority of people play (there are stats to support this).

    I apologize for that confusion. I made a typo. I meant to say that even if the way they play is NOT a regular occurrence it still represents a problem with respect to balance. People might not always play like them now but high hour SWF players most certainly do especially in 4 man squads at high ranks and this playstyle will become a major problem in the future and become alot more common once leaderboards are released. At that point the try hard SWF groups will have no reason to hold back be it to troll the killer or just dick around farming the map. They will slam the gens hard and get out before the killer has time to even hook a single person.

    My whole point is that the devs are going to need to bring this into consideration. Its the defacto best way to survive and its so effective that any killer regardless of skill or playtime stands no chance against it. If the survivors want to accomplish their sole objective and survive they can do it and the killer will be powerless to stop them. its a fundamental game flaw the devs will HAVE to address if they ever hope for this game to become competitive and balanced.

    Can you please read your comments before posting them? :/ "NOT a regular occurrence, it still represents a problem with balance". NO. No it doesn't. You have to see that what you just wrote is contradictory? The majority of games are not like this de-pip nonsense, stop pretending like they are and stop pretending there isn't anything to be done about it in game. There were exceptional killers that killed marth and his friends...aim to be better like them.

    When leader-boards come out then we can all have a conversation about balance then. But you're assuming that all these survivors are going to really pull up their sleeves and try hard...where are they now? If it's so easy why not just all do it now? You are just thinking of the extreme again.

    And, come on...competitive and balanced? There is too much RNG for this game to be competitive. You can be competitive, sure, but don't think this game can ever be balanced for the purposes of competitive play. You win or lose in this game and you do both regularly.

    Ok, how as a killer do i stop a SWF coordinated gen rush when the survivors have a sea of pallets, every crutch perk under the sun, BNP's, etc. What is my counterplay as killer? Marth showed that there is nothing you can do but hope they make really dumb mistakes that the killer can capitalize on. I dont care if every 1/100 games are like the depip squad or if all of them are. There is NOTHING a killer can do to stop them unless the survivors screwup. Marths stats speak for themselves. You like to pretend that these tryhard groups dont exist. They do and i get them alot. Some are ass and they make mistakes that i can use against them but then you get some that know where every pallet spawns and can loop you and loop you and the moment you leave them to go get someone else they hop back on a gen and the other guy repeats the process and the game is done before you could even catch one. You are deluding yourself if you think this is not a problem. Acting like because every other game in not always cancer it somehow is ok and i just need to get good.

    If you don't care if 1/100 games are like it or not then why are you so fervently arguing your non point?

    We all know that in the extreme cases like you mentioned the killer can't do much. At no point did I say otherwise. These try hard groups you speak of are not the extreme we are talking about (marth's group) and you are blurring the lines and not staying on point. I'm not being delusional, you are.

    You will lose and win a lot in this game. Some will be better than you. Get better and learn or don't...or just keep talking about the EXTREME scenario involving marth's bunch which never happens.

    It says more about you as a killer that you can't deal with losing or can't fathom a way to counter competent survivors. Sometimes you might play badly. Sometimes mistakes will be made and you are there to pounce. YOU have the ability to force the mistakes though. If survivors make mistakes they get punished..if a killer makes mistakes they get punished. If a survivor looks good and not likely to make a mistake, go for someone else. If they are in an area that is too safe, go find another. Slug. Bait. Whatever. It's not supposed to be a walk in the park otherwise it would be boring.

    If map design was better and the survivors had less tools to waste my time i would agree with you but there is a difference between going up against a group of challenging survivors and a group of impossible ones. The skilled survivors that know how to waste my time are almost impossible to deal with. To many pallets, to many looping spots and not enough time for me to deal with it all before the final gen is brought online. Likewise if they screw up and i catch one my reward is a good ol' fashioned D strike while they sprint burst away and i am forced to repeat the process. Gens done in 3 minutes, eat 3 - 4 D strikes and 20+ pallets. Games over before i kill one. Guess i am just a bad killer.

    Map design needs to be improved for sure and they have started to address that finally in the new map, which is as far as I can tell, a well balanced map. Pallets are being adjusted and looked at also (no vacuums and less safe pallets).
    If you spend all your time on a survivor who knows how to run you, then you will lose. If you see they are in a safe area and chase them, you will lose. If you chase the obsession d-strike and don't slug, or dribble, then you will probably lose. If they all have d-strike and you don't get them to a hook quickly then you might lose. Or you can play super paranoid and even dribble the non obsession players. Everything you mentioned just now (aside from the pallets which are being worked on) can be played around unless it's a safe pallet of which there are too many.

    You might very well be a bad killer :/

  • SnakeSound222
    SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 4,467
    Steebear said:

    Balancing the game for the entire player base is an impossible job.

    At the top end of the ranks the survivors have the advantage but at the lower end it is the killers.

    I am sympathetic but I would rather be challenged as a killer at the top ranks and struggle sometimes to do well rather than know that people that struggle as survivior in the lower ranks are getting competely wrecked.

    It is a tough one to sort out!

    Except every rank is the same. You can be a rank 20 or a rank 1, you will face Survivors with the same meta loadouts.
  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    @SnakeSound222 said:
    Steebear said:

    Balancing the game for the entire player base is an impossible job.

    At the top end of the ranks the survivors have the advantage but at the lower end it is the killers.

    I am sympathetic but I would rather be challenged as a killer at the top ranks and struggle sometimes to do well rather than know that people that struggle as survivior in the lower ranks are getting competely wrecked.

    It is a tough one to sort out!

    Except every rank is the same. You can be a rank 20 or a rank 1, you will face Survivors with the same meta loadouts.

    o.O

    But not all players are the same nor can most use their perks correctly.

  • SnakeSound222
    SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 4,467

    @SnakeSound222 said:
    Steebear said:

    Balancing the game for the entire player base is an impossible job.

    At the top end of the ranks the survivors have the advantage but at the lower end it is the killers.

    I am sympathetic but I would rather be challenged as a killer at the top ranks and struggle sometimes to do well rather than know that people that struggle as survivior in the lower ranks are getting competely wrecked.

    It is a tough one to sort out!

    Except every rank is the same. You can be a rank 20 or a rank 1, you will face Survivors with the same meta loadouts.

    o.O

    But not all players are the same nor can most use their perks correctly.

    Most of them can though. It’s rare to find players that can’t use their perks correctly. 
  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @SadonicShadow said:

    @only1biggs said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @skvirl said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The ability for 4 people to have fun shouldn't come at the expense of the 1, especially when the 4 are breaking the entire game by playing together in the first place.

    There will always be someone not having fun in this game. If the killer is having fun, the survivors will probably not have as much fun and vice versa. That's just how it is. When you play a game you risk losing if going up against better players, but that's how you learn and get better. You win some, you lose some. I don't get why people get so worked up over it. Accept the challenge in stead of whining.

    "Accept the challenge" when the challenge is objectively breaking the balance. The game is balanced around solo players, ask Mathieu Cote himself. Watch the Depip Squad win nearly 100 matches in a row because the Survivors goals are super easy on top of using SWF. Watch McLean even admit that SWF isnt balanced.

    There is no challenge. It's completely one sided if the survivors aren't a bunch of potatoes. You can't argue this with me. The science is there as well as evidence straight up from the dev team.

    Marthe's experiment was a little extreme, no? 4 players on comms or off, with meta perks or without, who have the hours they have in the game..you think this is a regular occurrence? This isn't science I'm afraid. There are way too many variables and nothing is being proven other than what is expected..that if 4 really good players play together, they win. Big shock. This is what McClean was referring to when he said "they know" and "so what" (apologies if misquoting).

    Also..there were killers that killed the "de-pip" squad that never healed and just did gens (yet more behaviour never seen in regular games)...and those killers were exceptional. Why not try to get better and be on par with those exceptional killers instead of just moaning? What's wrong with that?

    Its irrelevant if its a regular occurrence. The problem is that when you get a coordinated team like the depip squad the killer stands no chance unless the survivors screw up somewhere. You might think its acceptable to downplay the results of the depip squad but they proved just how broken this game is at a fundamental level. Just wait until leaderboards and seasonal rewards are a thing. Where SWF groups stop dicking around and go full sweaty try hard like the depip squad.

    What? If something is a regular occurrence then it's irrelevant? What are talking about? Surely the opposite is true? What? Did you just mind game yourself? :/

    Yes, it is a problem when 4 players come together with more hours combined than I have sperm cells. It really is. But it happens so rarely that they proved nothing other than what everybody already knew. It was well intentioned but ultimately pointless. To play the way they did is not indicative of how the majority of games go or how the majority of people play (there are stats to support this).

    I apologize for that confusion. I made a typo. I meant to say that even if the way they play is NOT a regular occurrence it still represents a problem with respect to balance. People might not always play like them now but high hour SWF players most certainly do especially in 4 man squads at high ranks and this playstyle will become a major problem in the future and become alot more common once leaderboards are released. At that point the try hard SWF groups will have no reason to hold back be it to troll the killer or just dick around farming the map. They will slam the gens hard and get out before the killer has time to even hook a single person.

    My whole point is that the devs are going to need to bring this into consideration. Its the defacto best way to survive and its so effective that any killer regardless of skill or playtime stands no chance against it. If the survivors want to accomplish their sole objective and survive they can do it and the killer will be powerless to stop them. its a fundamental game flaw the devs will HAVE to address if they ever hope for this game to become competitive and balanced.

    Can you please read your comments before posting them? :/ "NOT a regular occurrence, it still represents a problem with balance". NO. No it doesn't. You have to see that what you just wrote is contradictory? The majority of games are not like this de-pip nonsense, stop pretending like they are and stop pretending there isn't anything to be done about it in game. There were exceptional killers that killed marth and his friends...aim to be better like them.

    When leader-boards come out then we can all have a conversation about balance then. But you're assuming that all these survivors are going to really pull up their sleeves and try hard...where are they now? If it's so easy why not just all do it now? You are just thinking of the extreme again.

    And, come on...competitive and balanced? There is too much RNG for this game to be competitive. You can be competitive, sure, but don't think this game can ever be balanced for the purposes of competitive play. You win or lose in this game and you do both regularly.

    Ok, how as a killer do i stop a SWF coordinated gen rush when the survivors have a sea of pallets, every crutch perk under the sun, BNP's, etc. What is my counterplay as killer? Marth showed that there is nothing you can do but hope they make really dumb mistakes that the killer can capitalize on. I dont care if every 1/100 games are like the depip squad or if all of them are. There is NOTHING a killer can do to stop them unless the survivors screwup. Marths stats speak for themselves. You like to pretend that these tryhard groups dont exist. They do and i get them alot. Some are ass and they make mistakes that i can use against them but then you get some that know where every pallet spawns and can loop you and loop you and the moment you leave them to go get someone else they hop back on a gen and the other guy repeats the process and the game is done before you could even catch one. You are deluding yourself if you think this is not a problem. Acting like because every other game in not always cancer it somehow is ok and i just need to get good.

    If you don't care if 1/100 games are like it or not then why are you so fervently arguing your non point?

    We all know that in the extreme cases like you mentioned the killer can't do much. At no point did I say otherwise. These try hard groups you speak of are not the extreme we are talking about (marth's group) and you are blurring the lines and not staying on point. I'm not being delusional, you are.

    You will lose and win a lot in this game. Some will be better than you. Get better and learn or don't...or just keep talking about the EXTREME scenario involving marth's bunch which never happens.

    It says more about you as a killer that you can't deal with losing or can't fathom a way to counter competent survivors. Sometimes you might play badly. Sometimes mistakes will be made and you are there to pounce. YOU have the ability to force the mistakes though. If survivors make mistakes they get punished..if a killer makes mistakes they get punished. If a survivor looks good and not likely to make a mistake, go for someone else. If they are in an area that is too safe, go find another. Slug. Bait. Whatever. It's not supposed to be a walk in the park otherwise it would be boring.

    If map design was better and the survivors had less tools to waste my time i would agree with you but there is a difference between going up against a group of challenging survivors and a group of impossible ones. The skilled survivors that know how to waste my time are almost impossible to deal with. To many pallets, to many looping spots and not enough time for me to deal with it all before the final gen is brought online. Likewise if they screw up and i catch one my reward is a good ol' fashioned D strike while they sprint burst away and i am forced to repeat the process. Gens done in 3 minutes, eat 3 - 4 D strikes and 20+ pallets. Games over before i kill one. Guess i am just a bad killer.

    Map design needs to be improved for sure and they have started to address that finally in the new map, which is as far as I can tell, a well balanced map. Pallets are being adjusted and looked at also (no vacuums and less safe pallets).
    If you spend all your time on a survivor who knows how to run you, then you will lose. If you see they are in a safe area and chase them, you will lose. If you chase the obsession d-strike and don't slug, or dribble, then you will probably lose. If they all have d-strike and you don't get them to a hook quickly then you might lose. Or you can play super paranoid and even dribble the non obsession players. Everything you mentioned just now (aside from the pallets which are being worked on) can be played around unless it's a safe pallet of which there are too many.

    You might very well be a bad killer :/

    Certain maps are worse then others though.