Why killer mains think they are underwelming
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So I want to bring up some key reason why this argument doesn't make sense. Its mainly built around the emblem system because that is the means by which you win or lose is defined by the pip system. Sure you can say I 4ked i won but that's not the objective victory layed out by the devs.
- The pip system is your victory condition. 2 kills is not a pip.
- Gate keeper requires gens not to pop in multiples.
- No one will be happy getting good chases as kill winning all of them and still lose because survivor hook attrition outlasted good killer play.
- 2 kills can equal a de-pip
- In comparison to survivor death still results in a pip if you play well so survivor death is by no means an indication of a loss.
- If you want to pip as survivor you need the killer to play well otherwise you run the risk of depiping.
- So your point's don't make sense with the current win conditions set by dbd. Yes they are far from perfect but its a hell of a lot better then just 3-4k equal victory or escape = pip.
- In lower ranks a 2 k will pip you in some cases but I'm using purple and red rank pip measurements since that's the place balance complaints are usually more clear and is generally where most knowledgeable players are at.
Tldr Killers expect to 3-4k if they play well because that is the required victory condition.The fact that the survivor role tends to pip despite dying can win due to attrition, poor map RNG and general swf irritations annoys killers. Killers like myself like to spread out damage to give every survivors a fair chance (avoid ds too) which does not play nicely into the current system. A lot more doable with the mobile killers but again were back to the old mobile killers are only viable in higher play which isn't healthy.
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Survivors always have the option of just doing the generators, which is the tactic that beats every single killer. The only reason killers even stand a chance is due to bad tactics, I.E doing literally anything other than the generators. Everything else is just window dressing, and is not the root of the problem. The root is the maths behind gen speed and chase time. It can take about 3 minutes to complete all the generators, and that's assuming a bad map. Killers cannot achieve the equivalent without an extreme amount of luck and, yes, good decision making and mechanical skill.
However, it's also kind of necessary to let survivors win by holding m1. Imagine if they couldn't. For every whiner that goes against Nurse or Spirit, there's 2 smart survivors that realise that they can escape if everyone does the generators instead of messing around. Now let's take away that option: killers always win if they are playing Nurse or Spirit, no matter how quick the survivors rush the generators. As unfair as the gen speeds are, DBD as a concept cannot really be that fair, given that the objectives are intrinsically linked but also completely different. Better to be unfair in favour of the 4 people as opposed to the 1, I suppose.
And don't bother trying to use dev-given stats, they don't take into account the skews they themselves created. For example, the fact it doesn't point out the prevalence of absolutely boosted potato survivors.
And, one last final point, the golden 2k is unfair. In that scenario, all 4 survivor could easily pip, and even if you don't care about pips (the in-game win condition), that's still 2 people "winning" a "draw" scenario. That is unfair by any definition.
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I wouldnt say that's exactly true. I am a wraith main. Regularly come across a 4stack or "SWF" as it is called on this game. Dont camp and dont tunnel. Never really have much of a problem. The main issue is survivors being too altruistic if anything. They with rush me with their buddy on my shoulder or try to ineffectively body block the hook. The main thing is getting your 3gen early to keep them at bay long enough to get all of your hooks in. I dont use Ruin or NoED, because playing as a survivor I find nothing sadder than a killer who can only get kills due to NoED and face camping. You dont need to do "scummy" things to get a 4stack. You just need to bet on losing a gen or two as you get the ball rolling and you need to take the hit if by chance a couple escape. You are not meant to get every one every single time. If it gets to the last 2gens and I havent hooked anyone than they did their job correctly, and i did my job poorly, if there is 4gens left and 1-2 survivors left I did my job effectively. Plain and simple.
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No, not exactly. As gens get completed, the killer has less area they need to control, less gens to patrol, and survivors who are close to death hook at that point will play a little more cautiously. Also if all 4 people are still alive by the time you get to the last gen, they have to group up which allows the killer to apply more pressure to multiple people.
It's not a direct correlation like you imply
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I think the main issue is the mindset of many people in the playerbase tbh. Althought the Devs want a 2k/2 escape balance (and I think that's what everyone should want), a lot of killers will look at a 2k as a loss or as them playing bad which isn't the case.
The reality is, killing 3 or 4 people should be a bonus, not the norm. Just like having 3 or 4 people escaping should be a bonus, not the norm.
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Well, I am doing a 100 Matches each Killer at the Moment. Starting with one of the weaker Killers (Trapper) and for now I am being pretty successful so far. Out of 13 Matches, 12 were a 4k. I do not count Matches were Gens fly in 3 and a half minutes where you don't get the chance to do anything, because against those People even Spirit would've lost so that's not Trapper himself, and Matches were People dc right at the start of the Match, because counting that as a 4k would be stupid.
And still, like I said, he is one of the weaker Killers. If you play each Killer as efficient as possible you will win most of your Matches. Killer requires more Brain Cells than Survivor but it's not as unfair as it seems when you reach a good Level.
Being bad at Killer is frustrating, but so is Survivor as well so it's not really proving anything.
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This is why I argue that Survivor Friends in normal Matches should be removed. No groups can enter the lobby and all identity info kept hidden till the end to prevent getting in touch on the fly. People can still play with their friends in Custom games, and the DEV should put in a Team Registration option, for a separate lobby for Survivor Friends, i.e. the registered teams. These can fight Killers willing to go against the greater power, AND the Dev can buff said Killers appropriately with circumstantial stuff to aid the setup to offset the SWF advantage.
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Wait a sec, so you are ignoring the two biggest complaints? Gen rushing and hook sacrifiers? Im glad you are doing well otherwise but those should be accounted for as well.
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The game is 100% survivor sides. It always has been from day one. Even moreso during it's early days. This is coming from a survivor main who also is a rank 1 killer. There's nothing wrong with that. To think anything else though is just lunacy.
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2k games are probably the least common outcome...0k and 4k are pretty common, as are 1ks where killer camps the hook with the gates powered, and 3ks where the last surv finds the hatch. The devs just want the average to be 2k when you add it all up, it's not like they want the majority of games to be 2ks.
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So being able to instadown and mori survivors without hooking them(original ebony) was survivor sided? lawl. You speak of lunacy....
2-3m SWF teams bullying not only the killer, but solo players as well. You have no clue how often i've been the target of a toxic SWF as a solo player over the years. It's a daily occurrence. Then you have stupid survivors, who block you into corners trying to heal you. So stupid ######### like the Spirit phasing through the other player healing you and downing you because you can't move.
Totes survivor sided.
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No, things which aren't fair for either side won't be counted.
If I have no chance doing anything at all because I play against some swf's who like to press M1 so hard that the Map explodes that will not be taken into account. Luckly, those real "Gen Rushers" who are actually just extremely organized swf's are extremely rare. I recently had one but that's it. Against average Survivors you know that everyone got a fair Chance because the Match lasted for longer than 5 Minutes. So if they escape while everyone also had a fair fighting chance, that will count as a loss for me and that happened only once so far in my Matches.
Also, if I down someone and they dc instantly that's like an Insta Mori, and Moris won't count either. I can't count 2 insta dc's as legimitate Kills while they would have gotten 3 lives. That's like saying: "Hey I killed them all, I am so good!" while you used the Iridescent Head/Belt combo with an Ebony Mori.
I do not use Moris for that Experiment at all and I do not use overpowered Add-On's like Iri. Head, Tombstone Piece and so on. Maybe a few gimmicky Builds in the last 5 Matches as each Killer as a closing "event". But the Main Part of this Experiment I do is to understand each Killer to their fullest Potential and also finding out the real most optimal Builds and Playstyles for each Killers.
I did only 13/100 Matches as Trapper and I already know how to do the Adept the most efficient way.
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This is very true aswell.
Most games are incredibly onesided and the outcome is decided in the first 1-2 minutes. it's either 0-1k or 3-4k, very rarely it's a 2k
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If survivors play smart the patrol area will become not that much lower. You didn't answer to my math Argument btw.
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If you're referring to post where you said something like
1-2 gens - 1 down
5 gens - 3 downs
I actually did respond to that in an earlier comment.
But also I'd have to add that if you can only get 3 downs by the time 5 gens are done, you're trash at the game or you're playing against people who are WAY above your skill level.
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Yup, and it's why killers can think of themselves as underwhelming. To get a 2k requires all gens completed which means a 'balanced' game requires killers to completely fail at defending gens and completely fail at preventing gates.
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I mean, if you feel like a failure, that has more to do with yourself than anyone else. It's a game, not a job. That said, its supposed to be fun, not something that stresses you out or makes you feel like you failed when you've done as well as you can. Survivors aren't supposed to escape every match and killers aren't supposed to 4k every match. You win some, you lose some. That's something that people in these forums seem to forget.
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It's just not fun... You play 2 or 3 matches and get exhausted...
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Ive learned the first 2 gens that pop, regardless of how quickly they do so it isnt an indicator that you're going to lose. My snowballing and best plays happen after a couple gens pop. It used to have me flustered to lose them so quickly but the fewer gens there are, the easier it is to patrol and keep everything in check. Killers that are good at ending chases and even just decent at mindgaming but still find themselves struggling, what helped me is slugging. I used to not wanna be that guy but the way I look at it when I play survivor is at least it's not a hook a lot of times. I'd rather be dropped after being unhooked and just used as bait for map pressure than to be tunneled and hooked off hook.
What I like to do early game is just that. Down one, hook them. Stay relatively close that way when they're unhooked I can drop them and chase and down the one who unhooked them. I normally dont even rehook that first guy because I want him to have a fun time playing the game, but I still want to win. Alot of times, especially when running nurse's, I can go back to them and get a 3rd person out of it. Then from there, I have 2 or 3 hooks very early and tremendous map pressure.
It is overwhelming as killer when facing a good team but if you enjoy killer and want to get better, you have to learn to keep a clear head under pressure or it will backfire and you'll have a reverse snowball effect.
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If the survivor and the killer have the same skill then all survivor will escape
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You missed my entire point. If a balanced game is a 2k then that means the devs are purposely trying to make it so that it's impossible for a killer to defend gens/gates, as survivors can't escape without powering all gens and a gate (excluding key).
It's not a simple you win some you lose some. An ideal balanced game according to the devs will always have survivors complete their objectives of gens and gate and consequently this means a killer will always fail at their objective of defending gates and gens. It's understandable why some killers can feel underwhelming.
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You cant apply ressure on several ones without to slug
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Okay...... and who said you can't slug every now and then. My dispute was his illogical claim that you can only down 3 people in the time it takes to do 5 gens
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So what is a balanced game in your opinion? 4Ks every match? Every survivor escapes every match? Seems to me that most want "balance" to mean that no matter what, they can 4k or escape every single match they play which just isn't possible.
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how can you not include the matches that gens are done quickly?? that is being dishonest to yourself and your "experiment". The times where gens fly in 3 and a half minutes is the issue. Not including it ignores the problem. That's like saying I played Call of duty games where i recorded my KDA, but i didn't record a fifth of those deaths because they noob tubed me.
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Franklins is far from weak, you never see it outside of a Bubba. NOED is not even remotely OP because if it's rewarding a baby killer, there should be MORE than enough time to pop all 5 totems before the final gen pops. If it's a GOOD killer, than you probably would've died anyways so who cares?
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