Swf: an idea for a slight change
Now as someone who plays killer more the survivor I am a biased in my view here. But when a team of survivors seem to gel very well I always feel that this is the reason.
Now I know it's fun and all, and I dont truly mind it per say. I just find it gives them a bit of an edge a killer can not get. Being able to call out where the killer is/what it's doing that sort of thing.
What I would like to see implemented is if players are in a group in the lobby that thay get a coloured aura or something around the people in the group so the killer knows that they will have to play slightly differently around them. Instead of people checking profiles to see who is friends with who.
Feel free to pick this apart and add to it. I'm not calling to end SWF. Just make it more informed for the killer. If there truly nothing wrong with it letting the killer know who's in a group or not should not be an issue
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It'll be an issue since everyone will dodge (find another group) if they're aware it's a SWF and those will eventually always get matched with beginners who's not aware what some SWF groups can do. Which is worse IMO.
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Some of us simply want a "SWF" right next to their nametags. Albeit color coded if it 2 pairs of duos/trios or quads would be a nice touch in game too
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The only way I could ever see this being implemented pre-game is if it came with something to disincentivize lobby dodging, which I really don't think people would want.
Because as blunt as it is people's ability to actually get to play the game will always overrule balance concerns to a certain extent.
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Let me tell you the truth: unfortunately Behaviour will never change SWF. SWF supports the entire game.
People like to play with friends, they like to bully the killer (aka jester) and they like an easy match. That's all.
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More then likely nothing will ever get changed. But a man can dream. Whilst what I ask for is not a massive change. But it could lead to lobby dodging as people have said. And that would be bad. I donno, I just slightly disgruntled with it. Just trying to find a way to make people in both camps happy.
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Shame locking in lobby isn't a thing like they do for Killer choices, as in, if you want to play, no matter the situation, your choice is to stay locked in. If you shut off game to dodge a lobby, you don't gain levels/bloodpoints. Maybe even lose bp for shutting off game just to avoid not playing.
Sure they rid of penalties for dcing but that was just not allowing them to in a new game. Instead take away bp or something valued in game for dodging. 🤷♂️
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Before SWF was added those wanting to team up would ready up together hoping to enter the same lobby, and leave instantly if they did not & repeat. The queue times soared, and just imagine those times now with the current number of survs.
On the other hand just about no killers, including me, would willingly enter a match against a SWF. I do not believe any sort of BP bonus would in the end make any difference. So they would dodge, hurting queue times as well.
I've noticed most of not all of any changes the devs make are shaped purposely not to hinder queue times in any way. Our suggestions I feel should also keep that in mind, if we really want them considered.
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I don't think they'll ever do this, and I also don't think that they ever should. Ignoring the lobby dodging issue, most SWFs are not even good, regardless of ranking. The last thing I want when I play with a group of friends who are nooby at the game (as purple and red ranks... SIGH) is a killer who sweats hard, tunnels & BMs just cause he had prior knowledge that we were in a group together and he hates SWF/thinks we are gonna make his game hell.
Even crappy players in a SWF obviously have advantages, but escapes are still hard to come by unless the killer is garbage. A crappy SWF can get gens done (sometimes 🙄) but they make infuriatingly bad decisions CONSTANTLY and I really don't want to be discouraged from playing with my worse friends on the possibility that the killer will target us just for being friends on a discord call together.
That's not fun and would completely discourage more adept players from recommending the game to friends so that they could play together.
I totally understand why killers would want to know if they're about to go against a sweat squad, but I just don't see how BHVR could implement some way to "warn" killers to prepare without encouraging lobby dodging or upsetting gameplay from the killer towards players who really don't deserve it.
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If you want people to dodge constantly or target and tunnel/camp people for no reason sure.
Alternative here: take the <10% of games where 4 man swf are actually tryhards and learn from it. Play the game and do what you can. Then the 2 or 3 man friend groups wont even stand a chance against you.
I play both sides, and SWF groups are not the bane of killers existence. The killers ego and slavery to the pip system is.
You cant win every game. And sometimes the odds are bullshit. But you play, learn, and move on.
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I am calling for an end to Survivor Friends. I think groups should not longer be allowed in open matches and ALL data be stripped until the END of the match so you don't know who you are matched with and can't get on the party line. If people want to play in groups, that is what Custom Games are for. You and your Killer will know exactly what is up and can be comfortable with it.
Otherwise, it is cheating. Let's not pretend it isn't. Being able to communicate all information across the entire map instantly is better than any Perk currently in the game. The game was not designed with that in mind. So eliminate the ability for groups to go into Rank games together and strip out all contact and name info until the end. Problem solved.
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Swf needs straight action speed nerf's. Swf's are more efficient, informed and can take advantage of certain perks that are absurdly powerful in coordinated hands. The penalty can start off small with two people but increases for the group as there number goes beyond two. Solo's and swf's have no business being balanced together.
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I believe the devs have stated that both they always intended a SWF mode and that use of comms to them is not cheating. And it's their game.
With most of the surv player base already in at least a two-man, cutting them out of the pool would send queue times soaring. Others might point out custom mode gives no bp, so they couldn't even level thier killers or survs.
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Hey, I'm all for leaving it as it stands. BUT I think Killers will have to be buffed up and Mori too... to adjust.
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Great idea! Now the lobby-doging is a valid concern though. Sooo... Just show who plays together at the auto-ready at 5sec. That way you can't dodge or adjust your playstyle, but still gaun the knowledge! They might never implement something like that, but I can dream goddamit
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I certainly agree things cannot stay as they are with SWF. The community here is very scattered when it comes to how to deal with this though. To me penalizing or banning are not the way to go. Changes to improve info for solo players to try and get them nearer to SWF level, then rebalancing killer around that, makes the most sense to me imo.
Mori's (and Keys) are an another hotly-contested subject as well. I try to keep them both out of SWF debates, though some killers do feel a Mori is the remedy for a suspected SWF or key ( I do not).
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Good argument, can i adept it for moris? Because most killer using moris are not even good, so moris are fine, right?
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you are actually calling for an end to SWF. This will take us back to "cherry picking" lobbies we used to have before dedicated servers where killers will dodge them 90% of the time to get a full soloQ lobby.
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I have a question about your proposal: exactly how would you carry out the no-comms part? I don't know about other platforms, but on Xbox the party chat is entirely separate from any game being played. Heck the group could even be playing different games, I've done that. And a few years back I believe Microsoft mandated any game they accept cannot interfere with the party chats in any way. So the devs couldn't block comms even if they wished.
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As a new player, I did this at first, until I realized it's 100% of games with at least 2 man and like 85% with a 3 or 4 man. Killer queues are too long to lobby dodge. Not all SWFs are sweaty toxic children, but there are a lot who are, and you can't tell the difference from a lobby.
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I play PC but I'm pretty certain that if the ID info is hidden till the end of the game, and parties can only go into a lobby together as part of a registered team, that regardless of system, comms can be stopped. You can't talk to whom you don't know. I don't want to stop Survivor Friends entirely. I just would rather see it in custom games or as registered teams so there is SOME WAY to balance for it without screwing over the Solo Survivors.
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All this post is sooooooo awful, lol... I always play alone, solo, but killers still cry about SWF LOL Play better as killer, learn and stop cry like a baby. PS : We have a dozen of perks to see, when baby killer facecamping instead of playing better
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I really like the idea, with a slight edit (haven’t read the thread, so I’m sorry if this was already suggested).
Simply give SWF members different color auras WHILE IN A MATCH! Anyone with a red aura is solo. SWF will have the same color other than red.
- 2 reds, 2 blues = 2 solos and a 2-person SWF.
- 2 blues, 2 greens = 2 2-person SWFs.
“But wait! Now the killer HAS to run aura-reading perks! ” While this would help, you could also just hook a survivor and see their aura that way.
Btw, I think survivors should see the same thing. That way a solo running Bond, for example, will know that blues are working together and yellows are solos.
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I've just recently started playing and have been doing swf for about all of my 20 hours of gameplay, even though I'm a killer main. I find it really fun, and even though we team, I still lose and win games. I think swf is fine as is, and if you don't want to be playing with people with comms, you probably shouldn't be playing the game
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I think a solution to this would be, since the killer can see the status bar, just give those auras instead of survivors
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Now we’re talking! So easy that way, and solos can still see it as well. Best part is that it negates the issue of lobby dodge. DC may still be an issue until penalties are back, but that’s a different topic altogether.
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This would just encourage lobby dodging, which already happens a lot as it is. I’m not sure why you would willingly choose to face a SWF over a team of randoms? I personally don’t have much issues with SWF, as I find most of them are either not as good as they think they are or they just spend the majority of the game being a giant meme, which is fine by me lol. Even still, I would rather choose to face a team of solo survivors if I had the choice. Which is why I shouldn’t have the choice.
One thing that would be cool, would be if the killer received bonus BP after a SWF match. Maybe 25% in all categories? As it could make SWF more tolerable for the people that detest them.
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So far your experience is pretty standard for someone who’s fairly new. I felt the same way my first few months playing.
Once you get some more time under your belt, you’ll start noticing the issues people complain about. For the most part, SWF is fine, but when you go against a hit squad, you’ll know it! Once you really start humming, it’ll begin to feel like the hit squads come every other match. This is when you may find yourself making your own post about it on these forums! 😉
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The soothing cream of constructive discussion helps. Criticisms with no real input are like scratching the rash. As we all know, that only causes it to spread! 🙃
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I think swf should be relegated to a bot killer non competitive mode where you pick the killer difficulty to play against. Leave ranked play as solo.
After they combine all the platforms, let people who really want a challenge play against godlike ai or people who are drunk chatting play against beginner mode ai as they so choose. But in ranked play it's solo experience.
I would say ai mode still accumulates BP like ranked, maybe give ranked more rewards to encourage people to play it. Just my thoughts on the matter.
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I play both sides and for this one I understand what this post means. You can try and play as best as you possibly could and you could still get possibly get destroyed depending on the SWF teams. Most of them are coordinated as hell and they always have some sort of ace up their sleeve. Other SWF may make mistakes due to bad plays (I play swf with another friend of mine and we tend to make mistakes/bad plays, and we prefer to avoid toxicity with anybody. If a killer earns a kill on us and possibly our solo Q side of the team then we give ggs and props to everyone. If my friend and I go up against a bad killer we usually acknowledge that they're just probably trying to have fun and win if they can, and we help them a bit)
But however if you're going up against an extremely coordinated swf you're already in for a handful. They're communicating, telling their team about the killer and their every move, one guy focuses on bones, the other guy is the distraction/taking the agro, the other two are focused on gens. Or vice versa. While their is a chance you can up your playing field as a killer and deviate from their plans it's stressful because: Every. Second. Counts.
Just chasing someone for 15 seconds can already mean Survivors are getting *something* done. You want to chase that guy but you're worried about more gens getting done. You're stuck and you don't know what to do and go for and it screws up your train of thought during the process. Can the killer get good during this process? Yes, they can try and practice and sharpen their skills, but sometimes everything you learned might not even matter depending on the SWF team.
However just the phrase: "Get Good" is a terrible way to deal with things like this because you're only opening up to the only possiblity that said person is just bad to begin with even though they could be trying their best at times. And they just feel stuck during these scenarios.
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Same on ps4. Chat is separate. Friends getting together, different games being played, and just shooting the s&%t.
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The problem with your idea of letting the killer know it's swf at the lobby is killers will just lobby dodge more. Idk how to make that not happen if that were to be implemented but I would like an indicator of if it's swf in the post game like maybe put little links next to who is grouped with who just to let the killer know whats up at the end.
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Either increasing penalty for survivor on number of swfs in lobby or increased rewards for killer based on the same. The swf advantage is massive and we already have trolls abusing the new mmr because it averages instead of taking their full rating. With MMR, swfs could be handed harder killers, instead of allowing them easier matches due to averaging. But that would take competence, and the MMR system is still trash. Even OTZ is still getting baby survivors (like less than 10 hours) in his games, despite months of gathering data AND massive number of games since system launch.
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This is a simple salutation that would do what I would like. And it would not be a major issue I feel. Especially since it does get around lobby dodging.
The main reason I posted this was for civil discord into a system that not everyone is happy with to make it feel better all round. Constructed criticism is good. Even if it boils down to "This can not work at all." Strait up ridicule of the fact people are unhappy with the system in place helps no one.
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You really thought you had something here, huh?
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and i do, because this argument is invalid in both cases. If something is balanced or not is not dependend on how often it happens.
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