why is ds and unbreakable allowed?
i literally only see kids with OoO,ds,unbreakable and dead hard lmfao its hilarious seeing them need crutch perks to live. nerf ds so its a anti tunnel perk not a immunity perk. and make unbreakable slower its way to fast u can literally be off the ground in 5 seconds. like #########
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The same reason Pop and BBQ are.
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While tunnelling and slugging are still a thing, these perks are needed. Killers brought the upon themselves.
I also naturally counter these perks with how I play, by not targeting recently unhooked survs and only occasionally slugging early on for early pressure.
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not even close to the same lmfao. u gotta earn pop and and bbq is a point perl. ds is immunity and unbreakable is oh the killer is slugging guess ima get up and reset the game. such a terrible example please bring a better one lmfao
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thats not what i meant tho. why should i be ds by a fully healed survivor who i didnt tunnel but just happened to see so i went after him.
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Well, unless they did something stupid like divebomb a generator in your face, then there's no other way to put it but yes you did. Healing doesn't take THAT long, even with Self-Care. And if TWO people are healing, or we add med-kits into the mix, then there's virtually no healing time.
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Killers brought it upon themselves... lol. Yeah, okay.
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You have to get hooked to get your DS and it's only 60 seconds, then it goes away.
Pop and BBQ can be used at most 12 times. Not saying their OP, but neither is DS.
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Did they not? For every complain a killer and survivor have, BHVR offers a solution.
NOED wasn't a Hex Perk, survivors complained and then it was made a Hex.
Self Care was nerfed many times to lower its time to heal and efficiency.
BBQ was nerfed when they allowed to hide Auras inside lockers.
Killers complained about DS so much, and BT, that they introduced Pyramid Head's mechanic to eradicate the use of those perks.
Killers camped, BT was introduced.
Killers camped even more, and Babysitter was also introduced.
Killers tunneled, DS was introduced and BT was buffed along with its change.
It starts with killer's poor playstyles. It's always that 1 jerk camping killer to start the domino effect.
Same with Billy's changes, it took many campers to initiate the need for his change.
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People don't need them to live, this is a game and people can use whatever they want if it's not cheating , that's like telling someone they can't use Ken and Ryu in a old school street fighter game, I run all kinds of random builds to have fun and sometimes those are involved but not always , people can have fun in anyway they choose just like the killers who run basement builds for the hell of it because they get bored with the same ol same ol
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Meg's right. And the first sentence in my comment is kind of all the explanation that is needed.
If killers didn't slug, camp or tunnel as much or in the way they do, then Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike and Unbreakable WOULDN'T BE USED. Or a lot more rarely than they are now.
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There's risks and rewards at times. The issue is a lot of people only want the reward. If you slug, there's a risk that someone will have Unbreakable. Everyone is free to Tunnel, camp and slug but if survivors have the right perks equipped those decisions may have a consequence for the match. Without any remedy, every match would be a slugfest. @BigBrainMegMain is correct. And I think the more people complain about these perks, especially DS and UB which only work once per trial, they are going to make compelling adjustments to make them more effective and bring more utility. So maybe people will get their wish and DS will deactivate during certain conditions but then it may work twice and be very powerful against tunneling meaning there's no timer to circumvent. People say they want it to be an anti tunnel perk. I'm not so sure that's the case. I think people just want to make it easier to Tunnel, something that's already super easy and effective to do. Be careful what you wish for, I remember when everyone was running self-care and all the killers were complaining about it. Now that it's Nerf, no one bothers healing in a corner of the map wasting time and instead they focus on generators.
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how you deal with them in the EGC? or you god killer no survivor last that long.
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And for everything killers complained about, a twitch streamer had to have hour+ long games and create bad publicity for it to get changed.
Remember when the dev's themselves said infinites take skill?
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Agree with everything except billy, if people wanted to get a 1 shot camper they went to leatherface, not billy. His changes (albeit prevent a bit of camping now) were made for no logical reason except the devs thinking he's too strong when he isn't.
However with LF he was given a tantrum meter when revving, so the survivors complaints about camperfaces were acknowledged.
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Simple. I don't bother with them.
There are only two extremes with my games: no endgame or complete gen-rush. It comes with playing Pig, Doctor and Legion the ways I do. It also helps that I play for simple hook trades, rather than going after the unlucky unhooked one. If they BT block, then they waste time mending.
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I get that it's irritating, but that's like saying "lol why is enduring and spirit fury allowed"
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Thank you. I stand by my statements.
Even though I don't agree with the Billy changes, it was those jerks that camped with him that got him nerfed to begin with.
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glad you made a post after i made the "unbreakable" one, may this be something inspirational that changes the way of using crutch perks on survivors. i'm so fed up with it.
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DS is OP, though. It needs conditions, like both Pop and BBQ have. All it is now is 60 seconds of invincibility. What did the survivor do to earn it? Screw up by getting caught.
Pop has a condition - you have to chase, hit a survivor twice, pick them up and hook them to even use it; and survivors still have a counter to it in Repressed Alliance. Same with BBQ - except in addition to the aforementioned conditions, the killer also has to hope to god the survivors aren't doing one of the many counters to it's aura reading (which isn't even the main reason people use it).
When it comes to DS - it has a "counter". Slugging. Though, saying slugging is a counter to DS is like saying "don't get caught" is a counter to camping; but I'll humor you and say sure, the DS counter is slugging. But then Unbreakable exists. A counter to the killers counter. Both of which are high up in survivor meta.
But yes, a perk that has one counter, where that counter has it's own counter, isn't overpowered. You have no idea what balance is.
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Funny because Pop has a 60 second CD and so does DS.
POP gets activated by hooking a survivor and DS activates by being unhooked.
Invincibility? How so? Can't you slug? Can't you go for someone else? Why are you bitching about ONE survivor out of 4?
I don't understand your complaint.
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I notice you, as per the norm, failed to address the entirety of my post and instead cherry picked things convenient for you. Typical DS reliant survivor.
But, to humor you:
Funny because Pop has a 60 second CD and so does DS.
Pop is earned. DS is not. You didn't earn anything by getting caught and getting unhooked.
Invincibility? How so? Can't you slug?
As I said, unbreakable exists. You can't "just slug". There's literally a counter to the killers counter, therefore the killers "counter" isn't really a counter at all. Even more, what happens when they have DS, and get unhooked when the door opened during EGC? Did they "earn" that escape? Is there a counter to that? No on both accounts. Be less one sided. I want DS to be anti tunnel, not free invincibility. I would have ZERO issues if it functioned as anti tunnel and had conditions on it to make it so if you parade yourself in the killers face or do anything to progress the game, it was disabled.
Can't you go for someone else? Why are you bitching about ONE survivor out of 4?
It's not about going for someone else. Anyone who plays a lot of killers KNOWS they get hit with DS when the killer isn't even tunneling. Do you know how often I have hooked 1 person, kicked their gen that was about 70-80% complete, went and hooked someone else, came back to the original generator I kicked just to get DS'd and have the gen done in my face? I guess *i WaS TuNnElInG!!11!!".
You don't have a valid opinion with your texas sized bias.
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I'm guessing that you are not the kind of person that abuses DS for free gen time, heals or unhooks, nor the kind that vaults into a locker and/or equips Unbreakable to take away the 1 piece of non-counterplay that DS has besides eating it and letting them have their free escape so they cannot use it later.
Props to you. But that's not how the majority of DS's in my games go, as killer or survivor.
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These are perks to combat a play style. There is nothing wrong with them. if your play style is to go after the person that was literally just hooked 60 seconds ago, then eat your DS. If you are the type to slug, eat your UB. If you don't tunnel or slug, then those are two wasted perk slots that the survivor could have used to bring something else and ended up not ever using, so therefore, didn't help them whatsoever.
However, considering I run both of these perks, and use them both almost every single game, well, obviously it shows how much they are needed.
I never understood killers whining about these perks. Literally. You are faster than us and chase us with a weapon that one or two shots us. Why SHOULDN'T we have a way to play instead of just be at your mercy. It's a game, not a killer simulator.
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Also, for those saying the survivor didn't EARN DS - it has a tiny little skill check area. I've seen people miss this skill check all the time. It's little. If you miss it, you wasted your DS for the entire game. SO yea, we earned it.
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That's not the same thing, Pop and BBQ are countered by lockers, and many other perks that stop you from being seen on BBQ. Pop also has a counter now in the form of that perk from Silent Hill stuff.
The counter to DS, is to slug
The counter to UB, is to not slug.
When you pair them together, you get 60 seconds of invulnerability. Especially if you are near a locker. You get unhooked and you can immediately just rush a nearby gen near a locker and you can almost 100% complete it. If you see the killer, you just hop into a locker and they can't do anything to you.
And don't say "don't tunnel" nobody has any problem with the anti-tunnel properties of DS, the problem is that you can use it to slam a gen, or hook bomb someone with little to no consequences. It should not be able to be used offensively.
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You're entitled to your opinion. Doesn't mean it's right.
The perk is staying, and that's that.
Remember that when you get DS'ed, remember my Texas Sized Bias every time you get hit with DS.
And I'm a Rank 1, 5k hour Killer main.
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If they made DS into more of a anti tunnel perk rather than what it can be with unbreakable, a way to do whatever you wanted in the killers face with no consequence because they take the DS and you can loop him for longer on top of the stun or he slugs you while your team can finish gens and you can get back up to do whatever you want effectively wasting his time either way.
IDC what anybody says, a killer wins against good teams by doing atleast one of these tactics a game Tunneling, slugging or patroling around the hook which sucks but there's no way a killer can win by just doing chase one guy hook him find another chase hook find another chase hook repeat.
There is just not enough time in a game to do that against teams that do gens, games can last up to like 5-7 mins.
If they change DS to not be 60 seconds of invulnerability and more of a defense rather than the more popular way of using it as an offense DS Unbreakable wouldn't be as painful to deal with.
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While it doesn't mean it's right - I am actually right. I provided logic and reasoning. You basically said "nuh uh!".
In any case, I don't expect DS to "go anywhere" anytime soon. I never once asked for it to go (don't put words in my mouth - you're already terrible at debating, don't make it worse). I said it needs to be conditional - and eventually, it will be.
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Because they are perks in the game and survivors are allowed to run perks? Lol
Y'all complain about DS happening without the survivor earning it, then also complain about Adrenaline despite it happening when all gens are completed (thus rewarding survivors for doing their objective). It's unbelievable lol.
At the end of the day, people will run whatever they want. Killers run NOED, BBQ, Pop, Thanatophobia because they are strong perks. Survivors run DS, Unbreakable, Dead Hard & etc because they are strong perks too. There is counterplay to all of this, for example NOED in particular gives me a headache so I've become a professional bones doer to counter it.
If anything, you should be asking for nerfs for these perks/buffs for other underpowered perks (because I believe part of the reason why people run these perks is that the game is filled with many situational, mostly useless perks; surely the DS + UB combo is strong and that's the main reason why people run it, but I don't think we can dismiss the fact that most of the newer perks are extremely situational and thus weaker). Crying about "why do people run these perks they are so mean!!!" will lead you to nowhere. The sooner you understand this the better you will become at the game in my opinion.
Also, the counter to UB is not "not to slug". It's not leaving the area in which you have slugged someone. If people have DS + UB the best choice is either eating up the DS in the early game so you don't have to confront it later, or remaining close-ish to the area where you have downed the survivor so that if they get up with UB you can down them again. Or maybe look for someone else instead of constantly chasing the same survivor. I do agree that DS needs some tweaks though.
EDIT: to correct a typo and also to mention that I had completely forgotten about the skill check thingy that shows up when DS activates. Someone brought it up and I think it's relevant because I've seen countless people miss that skill check ---yep, even myself! So it's not like the survivor hasn't earned it at least /a bit/. And also to clarify that I sometimes run DS, but I never run UB because I simply don't like it lol. I'd rather spend that perk slot on something else. Before y'all come at me with that "hurr durr you're a toxic Steve who runs the DS + UB combo" nonsense.
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k
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So what? DS is just remarkable under a specific situation, otherwise its just ineffective. Same goes for Unbreakable. It brings Zero benefit if the killer doesnt play wrong. Stop complaining about non issues you make up cause youre bad.
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You have 2 kills in the game. Exit gates are opened. You have a third survivor on the hook, and you want to ensure your kill. They get unhooked, but you immediately slug them. Except, the door is opened...and they have DS. So, no matter what, unless they miss that skill check, they get away for free.
Guess the killer played bad. DS clearly had zero benefit there. It was "just ineffective".
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the same reason moris and pop are allowed, they’re in the game so it’s not bannable to run them
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bbq is a crutch perk, since when, also pop rewards killers for good play, ds unbreakable punishes killers for literally existing with no real counterplay 99% of the time.
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Wait, if there is 1 survivor left that isn't hooked, why did you even let the unhook happen? There's literally no reason to leave a hook at that point in the game.
And why are you not staying close to the survivor in this scenario? This seems like a series of mistakes by the Killer.
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So Killers using efficient tactics to even the playing field against good survivors is wrong, noted.
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Dedicated servers being what they are, even if you don't leave the hook, there's a 50/50 chance the grab will actually work.
All factors need to be taken into account.
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That's at least a fair rebuttal. That said, hook grabs never seem to fail for or against me.
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Why killer have perks ? Nah seriously deal with it . Like noed and others killer perk , and now do you understand why bhvr dont listen community ?
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"nerf ds so its a anti tunnel perk not a immunity perk"
The Majority of the time when DS and Unbreakable is most useful is when a survivor gets farmed off the hook, it might not be the killer's fault but it is still tunneling
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Because people totally not finish gens before you can even get to them.
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i dont understand why ppl complain ds or unbreakable they are 1 use if you use ds you cannot use it again and theres some ways to counter it unbreakable like i said its a 1 used to get up by youreself but you get a little bit more speed if youre downed now theres also some counter it and its not leaving the survivors on the floor.
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The perks seem fair to me for the most part:
DS and Unbreakable can only be used once per trial. A mishap in timing is very rare, but can make it a useless perk. They are strong, but that's reflected by their once-only use. DS has counterplay (a.k.a.: Don't be greedy!). Unbreakable may not be used at all. Even together, it's not devastating.
OoO has a strong power, but the downside is giving away your location. In SWF it is even more powerful, but again puts that character at risk.
DH can be beaten, as a mistimed DH with a patient Killer almost always results in a down, as well as DHing into walls. The only slight change I'd make to it is to give the Killer the same value as a wall - if a survivor wants to run into a Killer, running through the Killer makes no sense and is a bit cheesy. However, the aforementioned flaws may argue against that.
Overall it is boring to see the same perks, but they are just perks and a savy Killer can beat these. Even if not, eat the DS and make them use it earlier.
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The counter to DS is slugging though. When I smack a survivor that has just been unhooked, I don't do it because I expect to immediately re-hook them. I do it for the extra pressure. I expect them to get back up. If they have Unbreakable, so be it, at least they've been down and useless for a moment while I go find someone else and they now have 3.5 perks instead of 4. If they need someone else to come pick them up, even better.
I don't use DS myself because it doesn't do anything in most of my games. I find that, against a killer who plays correctly, the only time you could use DS would be if you've been unhooked next to an opened exit gate and they have no choice but to pick you up. That situation just doesn't happen often enough for me to waste a perk slot on DS. I also don't know how often survivors escape on you like that for you to be so upset about it (in one of your later comments), but this has happened to me exactly once in the eight months I've been playing this game. I can live with that.
Finally, I'd like to add that providing logic and reasoning doesn't necessarily make someone right about something. You can't be objectively right about something subjective like 'is this perk combination too strong?'. You might say yes, and others might say no. Both parties would have their own logic and reasoning. Neither party would be objectively right.
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DS/unbreakable is gross but at least the survivors that run it are generally not very good and you can get them to waste one or the other and have them back on the floor soon enough. Same with killers who always run noed (and rely on it to the point they'll RQ if it's destroyed or doesn't activate). They're just the kind of perks/combos that mediocre and unimaginative players are drawn to.
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DS should be changed that it de-activates once you go repair a generator. If you can repair gens you aren't being tunneled. It just becomes 60 second crutch when u can repair generator right beside killers face. Then he cannot slug you either because of unbreakable or locker close by..
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Thats exactly the one situation i talked about. But okay, i guess youre not happy without a free kill.
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You mean they aren't entitled to a kill but the survivor is (of course) entitled to a free escape. Anyway congrats on getting out of horny jail, I hope your incarceration has reformed you and you're ready to rejoin polite society.
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If you let the survivor getting unhooked and arent able to down the unhooker which has no DS youve failed already. But i guess you still want a free kill.
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The same way spirit fury and enduring is allowed
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