Quality of Life changes to Spirit
Now, lets be fair in this situation, the quality of life would be towards survivors mainly, which technically makes it a nerf, but I dont consider it to be a nerf to Spirit. Anyway, here is a list of changes I think would make Spirit more fun to play against, without making her (too) weak.
Her passive phasing only works when she has her power available(and make it known to killers when they are passively phasing)
This would basically address a lot of issues where people claim that Spirit doesnt require skill. Her power would be up most of the time anyway, so its easy to actually use it. However, this does mean that Spirit's Husk cannot Phase as she is using her power. Meaning that survivors can actually look at Spirit long enough to see if she is phasing or not, giving that some actual counterplay rather than her crystals being a slightly dimmer shade of orange.
Perks should be disabled in the Ethereal Plane.
Maybe not all of them, as I dont know the entire list of perks that would be negatively affected, but this would essentially remove the issue with Stridor on Spirit. There simply is no counterplay to a Stridor Spirit, yet there is some counterplay to Spirit in general. So perks that remove any counterplay against a phasing Spirit could simply be disabled while Spirit is phasing. I doubt there is any perk outside Whispers that would actually negatively affect Spirit's phasing. Hence me saying perks in general should be disabled. But if that is too broad, simply start with disabling Stridor in the Ethereal Plane.
Having some punishment on missing a hit after Phasing.
Not neccesarily a long one, but if Legion needs a reduction in ability activation time, and Nurse gets a stun after missing a hit while blinking, then Spirit is the odd one out. This shouldnt affect her phasing to cross the map, meaning Killers can avoid the increased time by simply getting out of phase and then starting the hit. Which, I think would be a fair trade-off. And perhaps just upping the cooldown from a missed phasing attack from 1.9 seconds(which it is now I think) to 2.85 seconds. Making it about 150% longer.
I think these 3 changes would make phasing Spirit overall a lot more enjoyable without really affecting the performance of Spirit overall. It would increase the skill floor to play such a strong killer without lowering the skillceiling. In fact, I believe it could increase the skill ceiling as Killers are actually able to know when they are passively phasing. Meaning they could start phasing right after they passively phased, meaning survivors would be forced to stay longer to know if Spirit is phasing, or vault faster. That leaves only the keenest of eyes to see her shards being slightly off color, which doesnt really change anything with them.
I genuinely think this is the least that needs to be done against Spirit to actually make her fun to play against. Because right now, she is not. There is too little counterplay, too easy to tunnel even the best anti-spirit players and barely any requirement to master her ability. Compare that to Nurse, Huntress and Hag, extremely strong killers that require quite a lot of hours to truly be an unstoppable force, Spirit just is too easy to play to belong in that region of killers.
Comments
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This is not a good idea at all..its way overkill
So I'll start simple..negating stridor I actually don't think is a bad idea..however a near 3 second CD for missing a swing ? Your already making iron will 100 percent effective so this alone is a tremendous and unfair nerf , then you want to disable her passive phasing and turn it into an indicator for survivors AND..make her lose any deception to when shes phasing..your stripping almost all her mind games and making her have a cd no matter if she hits or swings ..this is no qol..this is a gutting
Post edited by immortalls96 on1 -
Explain
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Apologies I edited
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Thanks, for the edit. Its a bit easy to stuff things aside while not saying why. I think I should have stated that they shouldnt all be applied equally, but that they are things that should be considered.
As for the indicator, I will set my foot down for that. Right now, its even worse than guess work. You're putting RNG in a situation thats meant for skill. No killer other than Spirit lacks an indication for her phasing. Spirit is an assassin killer. She is designed to work fast. Considering the time between passive phasing lasts about 5 seconds, phasing right after gives Spirit more than enough time to phase around. Besides, you could still use a burst of phasing while standing still and causing the survivor to start vaulting. That is the thing. Right now there is 0 skill in standing still or phasing around and leaves, from survivor's perspective, anything up to chance. No counterplay, no skills. Increasing the skillcap on Spirit there wont remove her capability of doing what she is able to do right now, it makes her harder to pull those things off.
People already use Wraith's bell 99% to make survivors think he went invisible, people are going to be able to hold m2 for 1 second to make her passive phasing take more time to come back.
As to go back to the cooldown. I dont see the problem. As a killer, you learn to only use your attack whenever its needed, because missing your attack is quite a punishment. Considering the map coverage Spirit has and the post-phase speed she has(which would have been the other factor to alter IMO), a Spirit should be certain enough to start using her hit. I mean, imagine Doc being able to instantly use his m1 after using a shock, imagine Plague being able to instantly hit after her vomit, even Nurse is getting a 3 second fatique after missing or hitting her attack and it doesnt gut her ability ON TOP of the basic cooldown, meaning that its nearly 5 seconds of Nurse not being able to do anything. I am only increasing the cooldown with 50%. That isnt much. That is Oni missing his instadown hit. That is Legion getting fatique, that is Pig after a dash, that is Billy and Bubba after missing their chainsaws. It sounds like a lot, but it's much less and it will punish players who constantly brute force their ability(because the cooldown on her power is essentially non-existant in the first place, so currently there is no reason for a spirit to not attack). If you think you can get a hit, and get a hit, it wont change a thing, it will just force players to be much more certain of people being on a certain location before they even go for a hit.
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Big issue with your logic..the killers with the cd you described are either the worst of the games killers that need buffs..legion especially..worst killer ever made..or are using insta downs or in nurses case can literally fully control her actions without loss of vision and better map mobility ..spirit already has to juggle and manage resources as she is..and has to take wild swings at times because at tiles she can't afford to hesitate..so it indeed is a big issue.
The phasing tell I can get behind but I wouldn't take it much further..survivors should have competition and this is not a 1v1 game, the killer should always have an edge
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The worst? Nurse is literally the highest tier killer in the game, Doctor is one of the strongest killers in the game. Plague is at least an A tier killer. Legion is far from being the worst. The only downside on Legion is that if you use M1, the powerbar goes down. Oni is far from needing a buff. Bubba and Billy are top tier killers. Pig is the only killer on that list who might need a bit of a buff, and even considering that, she is still performing well.
Besides, its both a 1v1 and a 1v4 at the same time. If it truly were a 1v4, then survivors wouldnt complain about being tunneled as long as their team as a whole wins. Survivors get judged individually, so the game IS a 1v1. Besides, Spirit doesnt have to manage that many resources, and if you call that juggling, well, I'd be laughing. Huntress and Clown are juggling resources. Trapper is juggling resources. Spirit only has to worry about her powerbar being filled up enough. Thats not really juggling, thats throwing 1 ball up and down.
I've even played Spirit pretending I have a 50% longer cooldown on a missed phasing attack, to a point where I simply had to take 0.5 seconds to assess my surroundings and then place a swing. Claiming its going to break her is the same logic that was behind "Billy's nerf is gonna break him". And look where we are now? Billy essentially plays the same, he just requires (slightly) more resource management. Same would apply to Spirit. If you miss an attack because you blindly swing, then you misused a strong resource and should recieve a (slight) punishment on that.
Besides: "has to take wild swings at times because at tiles she can't afford to hesitate" There is no hesitation if you know where your target is headed towards. If you have any hesitations, then it simply isnt the time to swing. Missing hits constantly punishes a killer already, missing a hit with your power punishes that killer (slightly) more. Why would Spirit be so special that it would gut her, even though she is leagues ahead of everyone? That doesnt make sense. She is the second strongest killer in the game, with enough potential to guarantee a 4k before 3 gens are done. Yes, not a potential to get a 4k, a GUARANTEED 4k. Nurse has enough potential to get a guaranteed 4k before 3 gens are done aswell, but Nurse requires a shitton of skill to reach that potential. Spirit, doesnt really need that much skill to reach that potential. The biggest reason I see Spirit players fail at that, is because they relied on playing Spirit too much and missed out on learning some basic skills that all other killers, including Nurse, are forced to learn to reach red ranks.
Basically, Spirit would essentially be the exact same killer for highly skilled Spirit players, but yeah, players who rely on her power too much and cant even get a 2k with any other killer in the ranks they currently are in, will indeed experience Spirit as being gutted. Just as people still claim to this day that Nurse has been gutted because they can no longer use 7 blinks, even though 2 blinks is more than enough to down a survivor within 10 seconds, unless they run dead hard, then it might be 17 seconds instead. The thing is, people assume too much that killers will be destroyed if their skill floor is being raised, even though the skill ceiling for those killers remains essentially the same.
Considering I have encountered Spirit players who never miss, even including Iron Will(Iron Will doesnt silence breathing noises, nothing does) and they only attack when they are certain there is a player there, and still are able to get a 4k before the final generator is done against quite a sweaty team. I simply cannot see your point. Because, the whole point is that Spirit wont get punished for a hit, she will be punished for a miss. And really good players, rarely miss in the first place. So all I would see, is that relatively low skill Spirits wont be able to reach red ranks any longer. Sure, there would be outrage. But look at Nurse, look at Billy. They gained a Quality of Life nerf that would represent players much better, rather than people infinitely chainsawing in front of a locker untill 60 seconds were over, or rather than spamming blinks untill they brute force a hit.
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These are nerfs, not QoL's lol
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I find Spirit the least fun to play with out of all killers. There needs to be a spottable indication of when she's spirit walking. There needs to be more counter gameplay against her so it doesn't turn into a reddit 50/50 challenge of throwing a pallet early. I honestly want to DC against her the moment I see one.
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You need to read what I said again because your entire reply didn't correspond with what I was saying at all and NGL you don't seem to know nurse has an extremely low play rate and even good players avoid her because the devs have left her sort of a mess ..if anything her nerf did worse than what people feared
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QoL's are either nerfs or buffs either way. The difference is that buffs and nerfs are about game-balance, while a QoL is to make the player experience better. Having 0 indication to slight indication is a QoL. Having 0 indication but suddenly making her glow when using her power is a nerf. Pig recieving slightly more movementspeed when crouching would be a QoL, even though its a buff. Trapper recieved a QoL that realigns traps to where the Trapper placed them, rather than where the trap vacuumed to where the survivor hit the hitbox, that is quite a significant buff, yet its only a QoL.
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No, I read exactly what you typed and took it from your context. Nurse has indeed a low play rate, because her skill floor got raised quite a lot to a point where good players avoid her because they have to learn her blink exactly before they are even able to gain 3k's relatively reliably. Or in other words, killers are forced to lose to learn to play the killer. However, people who take the time to learn Nurse, will gain 3k's to 4k's nearly every single match.
Nurse is still the strongest killer in the game for her ability to ignore every single resource survivors have while keeping chases short. The longest chase I had against a good Nurse, was 30 seconds total(including being hooked) because I had a few oppertunities where I could mindgame her, but killers pick up on that and all my chases afterwards were 20 seconds or less. No other killer in the game has that much consistency in chases. People dont like playing her because it costs time to learn her, but that doesnt make Nurse any less strong. Her 5 blinks was what made her too strong.
She had the ability to teleport to the opposite side of the largest maps faster than Freddy can teleport to a generator to the opposite side of the largest maps, while also being able to end chases as soon as they started. That is literally uncounterable. Let me put it like this: With the first version of BNP, Old Nurse still had the chance to get a 4k before the final gen was finished. Thats insta fixing 4 generators with 35 seconds remaining on a 5th generator. That potential needed to be lowered after survivor's potential to finish the game had been lowered a lot. Having 2 blinks on Nurse is more than enough. Her addons here and there might need some changing, but she is far from a mess, let alone being weak. People who claim Nurse is weak, are people who I like to describe as entitled killers. She is only as strong as the player's mastery on her ability. Which is a good thing and the same reason why I think The Blight might become the next strongest killer because his ability takes a lot of skill to master yet can essentially negate any loop as long as there is an object, and if there are no objects, its a dead zone anyway.
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Tbh, I dont neccesarily see the issue with the pallet dropping mindgame. Pallets are a resource that is meant to be used. If all dropped pallets lead to Spirit losing the person she is chasing, then Spirit loses.
Her permanent access to passive phasing and the lack of knowing when she is phasing other than her husk maybe slightly changing to a point you need a magnifying glass to see the change is what makes Spirit, IMO, impossible to play against. At least, in the current design of the game.
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Unless he gets some big polishes no he won't touch the high tiers I think..too clunky..no real answer to pallets or windows atm..he needs work
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His power isnt meant for extreme close quarters(although, I can see someone who is really skilled being able to pull that off too), but for slightly open area's. Its far from too clunky. Maybe for beginners, but so is Nurse. Blight has a higher skill floor, and I believe he also has a higher skill ceiling.
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