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How I Naturally Avoid Decisive Strike, Unbreakable and Borrowed Time
Before you go an further, here's the usual list of disclaimers:
- NO I am not a god at killer.
- Ranks don't really matter, because they are both more of a time thing and even if my rank has slipped, this has worked against random teams of 2 reds, a purple and a green after I had let my rank slip to about 16 on accident. Anyone who has seen me stream can confirm that it works.
- This won't guarantee 4 kills 100% of the time, but it will certainly help avoid these perks and their effects. I have been hit by Decisive Strike twice all year, with one deliberate (to prove a point) and one semi-deliberate to test if they had it and a little bit of efficiency issues.
So, how do I avoid these perks? Simple. I play Pig. And Doc, Legion and a little bit of Pyramid Head, but I'm a Pig main at heart.
That and I never tunnel anyone. If I'm going to slug, then I'm also going to do it early for stall.
Long story short of this will be basically play like you're Pig with Hex: Devour Hope always active. I don't personally run Devour on Pig, but the mentality is there.
Playing Pig has given me a strange insight as to how to avoid these "problematic" perks, as for me it has just been a change in mindset as to how I conduct myself as a killer. It has carried over to other killers, but it feels stronger on Pig, or at least to me.
Instead of focusing purely on kills, I have changed my entire focus as killer to PROTECTING generators, and making sure that they regress or never finish. Reverse Bear Traps tell me that a survivor will be going to one of four places total throughout the time that they have one on, and that being the 4 boxes that I have. They will be so focused on removing those traps that they are basically removed from the game and you can largely ignore them. If I'm not playing Pig, then scaring survivors off a generator and making it regress is the better option. Hex: Ruin is also great for this if it isn't removed quickly.
And while Unbreakable is designed to deal with slugging, rather than just avoiding slugging outright, I play into that part of it because there will be one of two outcomes: 1) they use their Unbreakable early on as I have tied up multiple survivors, or 2) another survivor comes along and picks them up, leaving a generator to regress or at least not be worked on. In order to achieve this, I only slug early on in the match. Never the final two, unless they do something dumb like try to flashlight me.
If someone is also recently unhooked, then I do also recommend slugging them if you just run into them. Same reasons as above, it avoids DS and for those survivors that don't have DS, they appreciate being able to actually have a chance.
Borrowed Time is also rather easy to avoid, as I just go for raw trades rather than slugging the recently unhooked. If the fool dives in front of you, then they'll be off to mend and, you guessed it, WASTE TIME. That being said though, as much as I like a good hook-trade, I just run off to the generators in order to stall them out instead but in the event that someone does run at the survivor and you're somehow nearby, then trades are strictly better.
There we have it, a guide to effectively follow the advice on dealing with these perks. Don't tunnel, especially RBT survivors. Slug early and tactically. Don't bother camping, you're wasting your time, not the survivors'. Generators can easily be more important than kills.
Now for questions that may pop up
- How do you deal with people running at you with DS for unsafe hooks or doing generators in your face? Well, usually they have an RBT, but slugging early as they are usually injured and I've normally disappeared long before then. If it's a generator, I eat it and normally target them. Same if someone does a generator with an RBT on. You clearly have a death-wish if you do this to me.
- What if people are running Sabo squads? Slug if you see someone sabotaging near you.
- Does this really work? Would I be sharing this if it didn't?
- How do you deal with gen-rushing then? If it's an organised squad, I can't. That just comes with not playing highly mobile killers. Sometimes though, especially against solo's, I can apply enough stall to keep them from going too fast. Ruin/Surveillance with a focus on stopping generators does really well to help stop it.
- You stream? Yes. But pretty rarely. Twitch, and the name on there is midknightreaper1. When I get around to it, I'll capitalise some of the name to make it easier for me.
Comments
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But I thought these perks were broken and abusable! The community has let me down...
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TLDR Hope the survivors are bad and uncoordinated (not swf with coms)
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Not at all. Like I said, I don't play the usual highly mobile killers and if you're better in a chase than I am, my advice will indeed do quite well. The problem with the coordinated squads for me comes from not getting to my objectives in time. Those being RBT's on quickly and forcing survivors off generators.
EDIT: This is also for the perks and how to deal with them. Not destroying SWF hit-squads.
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Why doesnt DC deactivate after you've been on a gen? Seems like the easiest fix that could be made.
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Yeah it makes no sense to me either. Maybe devs are trying to sell Halloween dlc as much as possible?
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OR just don't target the same person. Usually I can chain from hook to generator to chase, while also being quite far away from said hook. Again, death-wish players.
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If someone hops on a gen in front of you then they're asking to be targeted. A perk shouldnt make you invulnerable and allow you to complete a full gen.
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Your entire post hinges on the possibility that you're up against potatoes who can't loop an M1 killer. However, you do admit this by saying you can't deal with people gen rushing. Which is really just a term used to describe organised survivor squads.
But that's where the problems with DS, BT and Unbreakable lie. Not with inexperienced survivors who you can actually afford to waste time ignoring. It is physically impossible to use any of the tips you have suggested in a top-tier game with experienced survivors and not lose pressure defending gens. (which is the killer's only other objective besides killing people so I don't know why you mentioned that as an alternate strategy)
Basically, the main problem people have with all of the perks you mentioned is how they're abused to put the killer in a lose-lose situation. And nothing short of changing the perks, or preferably the objectives since they're years overdue for a change, will fix that.
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Gen rushing is actually used more as a term to describe the strategy survivors used to win against the term user.
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There's only one strategy they can use though. Be as efficient as possible when repairing gens and chased by the killer. All survivor knowledge boils down to those 2 things.
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And I did say that if they do that, then delete them from the game. One of the two DS hits that I have taken WAS someone doing that very thing to me.
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And then it only takes a few body blocks to over extend that chase and waste your time.
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Um. A few problems here.
I, myself, prefer to play killers that are in essence "M1" killers. I also hate this term as I am a console player.
Coordinated teams focusing solely on generators, in maps like Haddonfield are near impossible to control for any killer that isn't like Nurse, Spirit or Hillbilly.
"Top -tier" is I'm guessing all reds, some of which are rank 1. No, I haven't been there but I'm also assuming neither has an overwhelming majority of the playerbase.
The thing about prioritising generators is about prioritising them more than straight kills, something I see ignored on a lot of posts on these forums.
Yes, survivors abusing these perks IS an issue, but this is how I personally deal with them and have no problems. If enough people try this, then there might be a natural shift in the meta AWAY from second-chance perks.
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Look. I never said this was 100% only do this. I break this myself from time to time and it is to deal with the direct counters WHEN THEY APPEAR.
The point is to try and waste the survivor's time and how to do it while avoiding their perks.
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The term "M1 killer" isn't actually platform specific. It refers to killers with either underwhelming powers that force them to rely on basic attacks, or rather, an M1.
Oh believe me, coordinated teams are bad in any map. The ones you listed only add to their overwhelming power in the game.
I use the term "top-tier" because ranks are not a reliable way to measure skill. I've run into plenty of red-ranks that haven't the slightest clue what they're doing. When I say "top-tier", I mean survivors that know which gens to prioritize, which loops are safest, how to waste as much of the killer's time as possible, etc. Basically all the skills that a good survivor should have.
You're not wrong there. Plenty of people are too kill hungry and lose gen pressure when baited by survivors who know what they're doing.
Theoretically you're correct. But in order for the devs to take notice and, god forbid, actually balance this game, then almost every single baby survivor/killer would have to get a massive boost in skill. Something I can't see happening anytime soon.
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This,
Has helped me a little. It’s going to take some time for me to completely understand it, though.
Thank you for sharing.
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What you have basically described is the perfect way to consistently lose, and the perfect excuse for second-chance abusers. Like it or not, there is nothing okay about hook bombing, doing gens, or healing in the action with multiple layers of protection. There is nothing okay with jumping into lockers to avoid getting slugged. There is nothing okay withplaying completely mindlessly and still "winning" because you used 12 out of 16 second chances.
And I cannot recommend ignoring gens enough. If that's your playstyle, fine, but you will lose more than you win unless you are stacking regression on game slowdown on gen control, which is a huge, seperate problem in DbD.
You can pretend to avoid second chance perks as much as you want, but at the end of the day that doesn't mean they aren't getting huge value in your games, and it doesn't mean that they are in any way okay in their current state and stackability. Someone doesn't have to stab you in the shoulder to get huge DS value.
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Going to a gen in front of a killer is just a dumb move that can end in them being downed rather quick and then be like that for a while until DS deactivates, it just doesn't work as bold as they wanna be, DS doesn't make you invulnerable to being attacked, only picked up.
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Aaaaaaand in a cruel, ironic twist, I actually do really well for myself as a killer constantly getting Ruthless and Merciless killer results.
Like I said. I have proven it to work even in rainbow matchmaking.
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I, too, go up against a lot of potatoes that have somehow achieved red ranks. Like it or not, you "naturally avoiding" the problem doesn't really work when it's shoved in your face. At least, that has been my experience, and the experience of most killers. And that's without even mentioning the whole concept of perk abuse.
And the truly tragic thing is the sheer amount of value that I, as a survivor, get out of perks I don't have. The number of times I have jumped in a locker and been left alone, or even better camped, or been slugged after touching a gen is insane. That's how I know these perks are problematic. I have singlehandedly won games against otherwise skilled killers because they didn't want to call my bluffs. The second chance meta is awful.
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I also realised that the ever so prevalent threat of DS/UB made me adapt to a certain playstyle. I get DS´ed pretty rarely because of that.
The downside is that it forces an unefficient playstyle on the Killers end. So best one can do to avoid an avalanche of 2nd chance perks beating you home is to be efficiently inefficient, if that makes sense.
I´d like to see some downsides to stacking 2nd chance perks though. I´m nowhere near a top level survivor yet I´ve beaten so many Killers just because I had busted perks on.
To satisfy the whataboutism of some people: I had similar stuff happen back in the day when I occasionally ran NOED. I got a down or two per match that I didn´t exactly deserve (could be argued that they could have easily done bones though cuz I wasn´t that great in 2018).
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I agree that the second chance meta is absolutely abysmal and the only perk of those that I run is DS just to deal with TRUE tunnellers. If it were up to me, I'd be running Resilience instead.
My hope is purely so that a few more people start doing this, then either the meta shifts or killers receive some buffs.
To me campers, tunnellers and sluggers brought on this meta and contribute to the overall issue of killer power. Now, I should also say the usual NOT ALL before someone jumps down my throat to put words in there again. I slug occasionally, but tactically, so I call out people who slug 4 people as being terrible at the game.
Not getting into an argument about who's right, but I will say that rather than calling for changes to the game, I'm attempting to get the community to adapt and actually try alternatives first.
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I've tried the alternatives. I've tried playing around second chance perks. At the end of they day, they're too easy to force. Maybe I'm just unlucky, maybe it's just my region, or the time of day I play, but in general the only thing that has ever really worked for me is to force them all as early as I can, because if I play around them my loss is almost guaranteed. Still, I hope that maybe this will change, or even better that it's just me and I somehow mistranslate all the advice I get on playing around them.
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Somehow just playing Pig competently has netted me results that also happen to avoid these perks and still do well.
I also prefer the HUNT of playing killer over the kill, so I've never been concerned over "efficiency".
Even if there isn't an obsession, I don't tunnel for two reasons. I've BEEN that survivor, so I hate to see it and do it, plus it's also just good practice.
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What killers do you play?
Also when the current Destiny 2 event finishes, I'll be streaming a bit so you can always stop by and see what I mean with everything.
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thats stupid proxiy camping and slugging are good strats if used right and i slug all the time when 3 survivors on the ground and i see the 4th one
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it doesnt matter if its a good pratice to not tunnel the survivor if you do a unsafe hook in front of me i will not let you go unpunished for that stupid mistake
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Well by efficient I mean "good" as in making the right decisions. If a survivor gets unhooked in your face the natural thing would be to smack them right back down as they are vulnerable and there won´t be the need to play loops (which sometimes aren´t really interactive, like the car loops on autohavens, haddonfield and springwood). Given the right perks they have a 3 to 4 layer perk defense at that moment so it forces the Killer to make the bad call and chase the healthy survivor.
I also love to hunt but I kinda dislike being forced into playing intentionally worse just to play around their perks, which I feel is currently more of a one-way street unless the Killer uses NOED.
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Yeah, It's called TRADING HOOKS. What I'm saying is don't go for the one that got UNhooked, because it avoids DS and THEY weren't the ones who made the unsafe unhook.
Punish mistakes of those who MAKE THEM.
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What can I say? I punish the one who unhooked.
If I had BOTH on the ground, then the one who unhooked is getting hooked and the other eats dirt for a bit.
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but its a team game you are a team its not my fault you cant make safe unhooks
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Which is why I DON'T make unsafe hooks and make the one who did have a spike pierce their back. NOT the unfortunate person on the hook. You want to punish the team? That's good enough punishment to me!
It's attitudes like yours that have forced this second chance meta that I am trying to change. Thanks for the help with that.
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im not gonna let you go just cause its "good pratice" i can get far more map pressure by slugging them both then go for the unhooker
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Well said
I do some of things you mention... not targeting those whom just got unhooked, not being around the hook, and I tend to pick up my trash (lol)
Though I do get hit with DS from time to time it's usually either I have a lot of pressure on the survivors and that person was the unfortunate victim with DS active for a second or two... or I just want to get rid of it before the last two gens are done
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You do you. All I'm saying is that this is how I deal with these "problematic" perks.
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I dont have a problem with unbreakable.
I have a problem with BT but not because i tunnel, its because always when i try to down the rescuer, the BT guy just bodyblocks me and then proceeds to complain that i tunneled.
I also dont have a problem with DS as long as they dont ,,abuse" it.
More often then not they just jump in a locker and spam notifications or sit on a gen in front of me or bodyblock and then cry when i down them and call me a tunneler.
Yes, you COULD say they just tried to ,,playing smart" but then dont complain about camping or tunneling because then at least tunneling, is playing smart too.
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Plague, Oni, Ghostface, Deathslinger, Pig, and Legion. Honestly, I play everyone a fair bit, but they're the ones I've been leaning towards more recently. And yeah, stronger killers like Oni and Deathslinger can absolutely power through, but I still get Legion/Pig/ value just by virtue of them no longer having protection and being forced to play safe.
Though I do get DS'd/other-second-chanced less as Pig given the fact that I rarely hook trapped survivors and I use her stealth more than I should, but that's sort of like saying I get less BT/DS/Deliverence as PH.
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"Hey guys I play the game like anybody else and get lucky"
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Hey just wanted to make one comment on every reply so far:
It doesn't matter if you "avoided" DS by patrolling gens instead of capitalizing on pressure
It doesn't matter if you take the time to down unhookers instead of unhooked survivors and prevent getting Decisived
Any way you slice it survivors with DS will always get insane value out of the perk because it forces you to play killer inefficiently and go for non-vulnerable targets regardless of whether or not that involves getting a piece of glass in your shoulder.
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You go in a corner and stay there. That's how you avoid the survivors' crutch perks.
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Its easy to avoid them you just need to stop playing killer
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The saddest thing about all of this is that I don't avoid DS for the stun, I avoid it because I have been there too often.
People keep on complaining about these perks, so I figured I'll share how I deal with them.
But then I get smartass comments like the one from @handfulofrain trying to undermine me after I take actual time to write these.
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Force them off generators, not hope they're not doing them. Pig main, remember. Used to RBT stall.
And yeah, it's for average ranks. Most people are IN those average ranks!
Funny thing is too that this "endgame DS/BT/UB" thing that people keep complaining about never happens to me. They're generally all dead (or 1 hatch escape) OR a total gen-rush that I just cannot stop. There is no real in between with me.
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Man, I never hook the same survivor twice and I still regularly get hit by DS. There's no excuse for a perk that punishes one side for playing properly and the other gets rewarded for playing badly. Inb4 'but noed' yes that perk is awful too
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How do you deal with gen-rushing then? If it's an organised squad, I can't. That just comes with not playing highly mobile killers.
The problem with DS/unbreakable/BT is all here. If a team doesn't gen rush, then you can play fairly, otherwise... you have to deal with these perks eventually. The alternative is hooking a total of 8 survivors and still nobody dies by the end of the game :P
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Yeah, the last team to rush me had different perks to the usual meta, and they were all the same ranks at two of each in 11/12. Didn't stand a chance since I was a stealthy Pig on Haddonfield.
That line was also for people inevitably coming with the "but, the gen-rush", and it was more of I myself can't perform in an organised gen-rush, rather than the perks carrying the survivors.
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I was making you a TLDR. You should be thanking me... ; )
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For what? Coming on to my post, and blatantly insulting me? Sure.
It's not like I didn't already do one. At the bottom of the post. And left it unlabelled so people will actually read what I have posted so they don't miss any context. Y'know. The reason I don't do a TL:DR.
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I Mean, M1 is definitely console specific, as it means mouse button 1. Or left click.
It can be used on other platforms as a synonym for Right Trigger , but M1 is a pc term.
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