[BALANCE] Can we reduce the range of spine chill?
36 meters is insane, larger than whispers and even the terror radii of basically all the killers. I believe the range of spine chill should be reduced to something a lot smaller, like 20/24 meters, as this perk really counters the stealth killers, particularly those who need to look directly at the survivor, like myers and ghostface. Reducing the range won't hurt the people who like to use it to vault faster in chases.
In addition, it'll be more reliable as if it activates within that smaller range, it's a good cue to leave immediately rather than being scared of every time the killer looks at you from a distance, even when they're not chasing you. One might say to just look towards the side while approaching the survivor, but in many cases this is very difficult to do and shouldn't be required to counter a perk that takes no effort to use. One might also say to approach the survivor from an unexpected direction, but in many cases, especially on open maps, this isn't feasible and it's very time consuming. Please consider this change, the amount of effort required to counter the perk is too much for how easy it is to use the perk.
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Since I use Myers and GF a lot I´m all for an adjustment of Spince Chill since their stalking mechanics don´t allow them to effectively circumvent it, hence giving them no counterplay against a perk that is really beneficial without requiring any effort whatsoever.
A range reduction might help Ghostface, but Myers would have to stalk for like 16 seconds to tier up from that range and remain unseen for that period of time on top of that.
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Plz no. It's already an uncommon perk and changing it will only force more survivors towards the dreaded Second Chance Build.
Stealth killera are also rather uncommon as is, so there isn't a huge amount of Spine Chill going around.
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I was thinking maybe 24m, as it would take an average killer about 5 seconds to reach you assuming it activated.
In compensation for some added range, make the value a solid 6% as it is, but make it only effect gens, healing and Sabo. The vault speed build is way to passive on the survivors end with no input from killer.
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Respectfully disagree. It´s rather rare to have matches in which not at least one survivor uses it in my experience, but maybe that´s just Europe red ranks in the evening.
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Detection isn't the main reason why a lot of people use spine chill though, more often it's for the vault speed build that will still work fine.
The perk won't become useless at all, just less tedious to go against. It'll also give a more reliable notification instead of flashing on and off.
Also, doesn't this just mean there's a flaw with the second chance build that needs to be addressed? ;)
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I run spine chill on pretty much all my survivors. I think the range could use maybe a slight reduction. 28 meters maybe? Or even 32? The fact that it activates before you even hear the TR is really strong right now.
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If you're in a tile with no visibility, which spine chill is good for, 5s is plenty of time to reach the pallet/window. But I can imagine 24m being workable, still way better than 36.
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I rarely see Spine Chill, whether I’m playing survivor or killer. Nerfing it would drop it from “fun and useful niche perk” to “never used” so I’m against it. We need more useful perks, not less.
Admittedly it is pretty awful if you’re playing Myers and more than one person has SC, since you’ll struggle to get out of tier 1. I’d rather they buff Myers than nerf SC though.
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I was thinking about the counter of turning away, instead of having to look away for 36m worth of distance, you only need to look away for 24m. Plus, if you're lets say a stealth killer, slap on whispers and you have an approximate distance to start looking away. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to make stalkface less effected without reworking the perk entirely.
I view spine chill as the Freddy of survivor perks, it's literally good at everything. Like a multitool almost.
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I see at least one spine chill per game at red ranks, so maybe it's a regional/time thing.
Like I said, it won't become useless at all because the range on it will still be good enough to evade killers. On the other hand, it's such an easy to use perk that requires significant counterplay from the killer's side, and not just myers-pretty much all stealth killers.
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I play red ranks on PC EU and see it once in a while, definitely nowhere near every game.
The only counterplay you need is this: don’t just hold W and beeline straight to a gen. Walk backwards or sideways, or even flick your camera around. Spine Chill users typically won’t jump off a gen if they see Spine Chill turning on and off, they’ll assume the killer is in a chase nearby.
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Ah fair, it's true that current spine chill kinda counters whispers. At the end of the day any significant reduction in the range will be welcome imo.
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I know about these counters dude, looking to the side def helps a bit when approaching. But stalking requires you looking directly at the survivor, in which case they'll always be alerted. It also has a higher range than whispers, which is basically a staple for many stealth killers. It's even higher than normal killer TR's lol.
I mean yea you can also flick your camera when stalking, but all that to counter a perk you can just slap on and get value out of? Not worth imo
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I honestly think Myers should stalk at the same rate from any distance, doesn't make sense to get punished for stalking from far away as it takes more skill to do in most cases.
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Given that Myers stalk is more impactful on the survivor team as a whole I´d suggest at least tuning the range penalty down significantly. Maybe removing it altogether would be a bit too much.
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I agree with OP and a few other people: Spine chill needs some range adjustment.
Simple fact that you can't moonwalk stalk someone and as soon as someone sees spine chill light up for more than 1 second they bounce.
If you get 3 people using spine chill, which isnt that rare because of how popular the vault build is, it can be really tough to get some good stalks on people at the start of matches. (DS, Unbreakable, Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, GL friendo)
Ghostface has a 4m grace period where he can stalk without triggering spine chill. But stalking someone from 40m away is often times difficult and depends on map, LoS. Stalking people from 24-32m away though? Not too difficult. Spine chill range should be somewhere in the 20's. 24m sounds fair.
That gives Ghostface 16m of grace (40m stalk range) which is workable especially at the start of the match when survivors are typically far away(around 36-40m away).
I think the idea of having to moonwalk everywhere you go once you catch on to a spine chill is a dumb "outplay". But since thats the counter, 24m away you could moonwalk for roughly 10m then go back to looking at them, afterwards the survivor will see spine chill again and think you're still quite far away, 1-2 seconds pass with spine chill still on and they still will start running. By that time, the gap is close enough that the survivor will see you anyway unless they in jungle gym. Moonwalking for 10m is better than moonwalking for 20m with the 36m spine chill.
I think spine chill shouldnt even work on undetectable killers but thats just IMO. It should be a perk that is used in conjunction with the TR to help survivors be certain that the killer really is coming for them and not in a chase with someone and prevent survivors panicking when they hear the TR.
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Whispers benefits from a smaller radius so I don’t really understand the comparison? There’s a reason nobody bothers running Whispers tier 1 despite it having a larger range.
Almost every single perk in this game is “slap it on and get value”, so if that’s the criteria for a perk needing a nerf we can say bye to at least 80% of perks in the game lol.
Spine Chill exists to soft counter stealth killers. That and the vault speed build are the only reasons to run it. Nerfing it to be less useful against stealth killers will kill the perk entirely, which I guess is the point - some people who play stealth killers don’t like Spine Chill and don’t want to have to play around it. I don’t think that’s a good reason to ask for something to be nerfed.
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People complain about DS, UB, and BT, but then want all the other good survivor perks nerfed too :/
I could see Spine Chill receiving a nerf and still being fine, but as it is, it's a very good perk for people who want to play IMMERSIVE. I see posts all the time hating on looping, or telling players that the counter against this killer or that killer is to play immersive, and you know what? Spine Chill is the perk for people who do want to play like that. If they nerfed the range, it wouldn't be quite the heads up that it is now, and it would be more difficult for those immersive players to get to their hiding spots without being found (considering the time it takes for scratch marks to fade, taking some time to figure out which direction to head, etc). So many killers (Doctor, Legion, etc) and perks (BBQ, etc) already shamble those players who just want to play the game in a hide and seek manner; I don't really support nerfing that playstyle further.
It sucks for stealth killers that there is a perk that makes it harder for them to use their power, but this is one of the few counter perks to them and it definitely has counter play for them to employ. Plenty of killer perks are little work but require decent effort from the survivors to counter or have no counter at all; the Spine Chill counterplay is really annoying but it does exist and work well enough IME
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It's not gonna kill the perk though, which is what I'm saying. The range will be more manageable for killers but will still give survs enough info they need to escape (maybe change it to 24m or something instead of 20). The 36m range is also larger than many killer's terror radii, which just seems kinda weird from a gameplay standpoint.
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Yes please beef spine chill so I run meta build even more. Cant believe we are trying to nerf spine chill of all perks just moon walk toward gens.
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Perhaps Stealth Killers should get notified at a reduced range (16 meters?) so that they still have the agency to approach them without completely invalidating the perk
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That's how the game is designed. Certain Survivor perks counter certain Killers, and visa-versa. Urban for Hag or Pyramid, Spine for stealth Killers. I think it makes it fun and a luck of the draw type thing. Just like Plague counters Self-Care, or Oblivious/No Terror Radius counters BT.
Post edited by ble3kaudio on0 -
It's not easy to deal with, but spinechill is ok. I just block line of sight and go sideways towards a gen when I notice ghosts.
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I don't think it need a reduction but it is used alot if it needed a reduction i say 32.
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Yeah, how about 8 meters, when the killer is basically already at the survivor?
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I don't think reducing the range will actually make it weaker. If it were 24 meters and it activates and you hear no TR that just means it's guaranteed time to run instead of having to play a guessing game of whether or not they actually are coming for you. Reducing the range just makes the information you gain more reliable.
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My point exactly, it'll be more reliable info and at the same time be less tedious for killers
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The only change I want is EW1 Myers being immune to it and premonition. Originally Myers was immune to both in EW1 (and aura reading) but when they added undetectable they removed the immunity to spine chill and premonition.
I understand why it was changed (consistency) but Mirror Myers is stuck in EW1 and has a slower move speed with a tiny lunge and doesn't get bloodlust. Stealth is literally the only thing he has going for him with that build. If a survivor has Spine Chill you won't be able to really catch them, ever.
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Spine Chill is fine. It doesn’t need any changes to it.
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Spine Chill is fine as is, nerfing will just add to the massive pile of unused/useless survivor perks. Leave it alone!
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It's hardly a nerf though, more like a quality of life change that just hurts killers less :)
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A reduction of its range is most definitely a nerf which isn't required. It's hardly a top meta perk either so by using it they have to drop something such as Unbreakable, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike etc so its a risk for them. Against some killers its pointless even having it, such as Legion, Doctor, Nurse with Infectious Fright etc. Stealth killers can be really frustrating for some people so that is why they run the perk as a counter play, if you suspect someone is running it you can counter it as you stated in your OP regardless how much of a pain it is.
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wouldnt a reduced range be a buff because you know the killer is closer.... ?
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Exactly, wouldnt hurt the survs that much
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A 24m range still leaves plenty of time for survs to get away. Spine chill is a great perk in general; vault builds are in and the perk helps people commit to gens knowing the killer isnt after them, even if theyre nearby
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I believe spine chill is good for immersive players and also its not really strong it has some bad things such as you can run into the killers many times but, its useful for new player who are scared and have just started a chance to at least know when your coming.
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